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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ClearSkies on September 26, 2007, at 13:30:58
I stayed in an abusive marriage for 18 years, and I haven't forgiven myself for it yet. I used the "L" word (the rest of it is "oser") in describing myself today in therapy and it still is how I see myself. Self Esteem board notwithstanding.
I don't even think that having closure could have helped. Yes, I got divorced, but I never heard the words "what I did was wrong," "I hurt you," "I'm sorry for what I did," and I get angry about it, in some way it seems, every day. It has telegraphed its way into just about all my out of proportion reactions to every day stressors. My trauma from verbal and emotional and yes physical abuse that I stayed silent about for 18 years. It's an entire lifetime. I've even remarried, become sober, am finally getting somewhat stable on medication, and I'm not over this stuff. I can't even read the book my T wanted me to read about verbal abuse. I get a couple of paragraphs down and I get all mad and lose my concentration and can't hold the words together.
What I'm angry with about myself now, is that I think with so much time past and with the events long gone cold, that if I'm feeling victimized, that it's something I'm doing to myself now that is perpetuating that feeling. I'm no longer being abused or in an abusive relationship. But I'm acting, and reacting, like I'm still a victim. So I really AM a Loser since I'm being a victim and I'm not even being abused any more.
I'm crying buckets over this. My T really doesn't want me to push this beyond trying to read the book, and noticing how I'm feeling (when I react like the victim again). I'm going to try reading a random chapter this afternoon. But I don't see how the words are going to settle now when I haven't been able to read them in the past. I can't even link to the book. I have probably posted the book link previously, I don't even know.
CS
Posted by zenhussy on September 26, 2007, at 17:47:31
In reply to Getting closer to the heart of the issues?, posted by ClearSkies on September 26, 2007, at 13:30:58
Posted by Dinah on September 26, 2007, at 19:03:41
In reply to Getting closer to the heart of the issues?, posted by ClearSkies on September 26, 2007, at 13:30:58
If it helps any, one of the books I found most helpful was one I had to read so many times. Because I would fall asleep during it, or space out, or in some way flee from it. Yet in the end I was able to take it in, and it did help.
I'm not sure if that's helpful, but in my experience it was helpful to plug away at it. But in doses that I could handle. I think that part is very important.
Posted by antigua3 on September 26, 2007, at 19:47:49
In reply to Getting closer to the heart of the issues?, posted by ClearSkies on September 26, 2007, at 13:30:58
<<What I'm angry with about myself now, is that I think with so much time past and with the events long gone cold, that if I'm feeling victimized, that it's something I'm doing to myself now that is perpetuating that feeling....But I'm acting, and reacting, like I'm still a victim. So I really AM a Loser since I'm being a victim and I'm not even being abused any more"
So does that make me a loser too, since my abuse occurred in my childhood and I'm not over it yet? That I'm still working on it every single day in some way?
You know the answer is no. You aren't a loser, and things still trigger you, despite the much better life you have now. There's no way you couldn't be triggered--in some ways you should feel proud that you are safe and healthy enough now that you can deal with these issues. You couldn't before, I couldn't before, and we just can't be so hard on ourselves.
I'm not a loser, you aren't either. Also, I'm not a victim, and I will never say that I am a survivor (don't know why that last one bothers me so much).
We are who we are, trying to do the best we can. Look at how far you've come, and look forward to knowing that all of your hard work has paid off in many ways--maybe not yet in all the ways you want, but please give yourself a huge amount of credit; I certainly can see that you deserve it.
antigua
Posted by ClearSkies on September 26, 2007, at 19:53:04
In reply to Re: Getting closer to the heart of the issues? » ClearSkies, posted by Dinah on September 26, 2007, at 19:03:41
I got through most of a chapter this afternoon. I had to give myself lots of incentives (= snacking) but figured if it helped me stick to getting pages digested too, it was worth it. The words stayed put on the page this time, instead of swimming around. And my T lent me another book to read, but I realized later, on the drive home, that I've read it before. Read it and forgotten it. I guess this means that a revisit is in order.
To balance out this difficult day, I made a trip to Borders to get some pleasure books to give my head a break.
CS
Posted by ClearSkies on September 26, 2007, at 19:55:27
In reply to you certainly are closer to heart of issues ((CS)) (nm) » ClearSkies, posted by zenhussy on September 26, 2007, at 17:47:31
I do believe that everything happens when it's supposed to, and not a minute before.
I guess I had to get sober first before I could do this work. Smart therapist.
CS
Posted by ClearSkies on September 26, 2007, at 20:36:21
In reply to Re: Getting closer to the heart of the issues? » ClearSkies, posted by antigua3 on September 26, 2007, at 19:47:49
>
> We are who we are, trying to do the best we can. Look at how far you've come, and look forward to knowing that all of your hard work has paid off in many ways--maybe not yet in all the ways you want, but please give yourself a huge amount of credit; I certainly can see that you deserve it.
> antiguaI think that it's when my husband says to me, "get over it" that I think that I should be over it. I don't even discuss what it is that triggers me or what I'm upset about - he just doesn't want to hear about it. He's actually blocked out entire memories of his first marriage, and from what I can gather, can only vividly remember family vacations. The day to day stuff of trauma he claims he cannot remember. Sometimes I think he must be lying, and sometimes I wish I had the power to do the same with my own memories. (And yes, his denial runs very deep. I know that when I've spoken of my first marriage and my trauma that he's just not prepared to hear any of it. And he wonders what I get out of therapy!)
CS
Posted by muffled on September 27, 2007, at 11:17:56
In reply to Re: Getting closer to the heart of the issues? » antigua3, posted by ClearSkies on September 26, 2007, at 20:36:21
and wish you the best.
M
Posted by ClearSkies on September 27, 2007, at 12:34:02
In reply to (((CS)))Got no clever words, but I like you. » ClearSkies, posted by muffled on September 27, 2007, at 11:17:56
I like you too.
CS
Posted by ClearSkies on September 27, 2007, at 15:17:55
In reply to Re: Getting closer to the heart of the issues? » Dinah, posted by ClearSkies on September 26, 2007, at 19:53:04
And I'll link to it properly: "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans. It's one of those books that my T recommends over and over again to her clients. It took me over a year to get to the end of it, and it was tough for me, I'll admit it.
What my T is saying now is that I'm feeling the PTSD effects from the 18 years of abuse, which, of course, makes sense. that's a long time to have a daily dose of *anything* thrown at you without having some after effects felt. So, once again, she's telling me to "be gentle" with myself. Didn't like me using that Loser word, and neither did I, though it sure left like a well worn shoe, a perfect fit.
But I'm glad she asked me to stick with the book and get to the end of it because part of what I'm struggling with now is the lack of resolution that I've had - that I never heard the abuser tell me he was sorry, or wrong, or even admit that he'd done anything. It made me think for the longest time that I MUST have imagined some of this stuff, or that it wasn't as bad as I remembered. Or he would have said so, right? (You all can stop rolling your eyes any time now.)
But I read enough into the book to realize that with his upbringing, and the compulsive need to dominate and feel superior to me made the abuse an almost inevitable part of our relationship. It really is all he's ever known, from what I know of his family. So I think I can let out my breath and stop waiting for that particular apology to come forth.
So I feel a little better today, and I think I'm going to read the book all the way through again, when I get back from vacation.
CS
Posted by annierose on September 27, 2007, at 16:43:47
In reply to Read through to the end of the book - gasp, posted by ClearSkies on September 27, 2007, at 15:17:55
It sounds like reading the book was helpful. Sometimes our t's really do know what is helpful. Your post sounds more hopeful ... that by reading the book, you gained some perspective and distance.
I like re-reading a book that I got so many juicy nuggets of insight from. The second reading helps sink those thoughts more into my consciousness.
Posted by Daisym on September 28, 2007, at 8:03:58
In reply to Read through to the end of the book - gasp, posted by ClearSkies on September 27, 2007, at 15:17:55
You sound like me...or me like you...the idea that there would be closure or remorse - but there just isn't. I've gone so far as to have a melt down around the thought of my therapist helping my (soon to be ex) husband - husband needs help but I don't want anymone giving him compassion. How sad is that?
Everyone needs compassion. But it is such a struggle to hold all the conflicting feelings of love and hate and understanding and hurt. It is easier to turn it on ourselves. I'm glad to hear you are beginning to forgive yourself. BTW - you were a victim and there is no shame in that. I know it isn't pc to say that, but so many people get all hung up on that word. Just because you were then doesn't mean you run around doing a "poor me" now. But you have every reason to feel sad and more about 18 years of abuse. This is NOT "wallowing" -- it is working through. It is reality.
I'm just sorry it was yours. I hope you continue to feel better.
Hugs,
Daisy
Posted by JoniS on September 28, 2007, at 9:08:47
In reply to Read through to the end of the book - gasp, posted by ClearSkies on September 27, 2007, at 15:17:55
ClearSkies,
Congratulations on reading the book. It was a big accomplishment!
Have a good time reading those plesurable books now.
Take good care
Joni
Posted by Poet on September 28, 2007, at 10:56:38
In reply to Read through to the end of the book - gasp, posted by ClearSkies on September 27, 2007, at 15:17:55
Hi Clearskies,
I struggle with blaming myself for being abused, thank you so much for posting that there is a way out of the blame game maze. You are right that the apology won't come and to stop waiting for it. I hope I can let that breath out soon.
Poet
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