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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dory on September 17, 2007, at 18:18:06
today's session was going slow, but things were ok, nothing exciting or eye popping. We talked some about the ongoing call and list issue... and some about the past work we did last week. It was right around then that things changed...rapidly.
i can't explain how it happened or exactly what was going on for me, but i got extremely quiet... not just in the verbal sense, but my whole being. He was talking for a while at the time, so i wasn't even talking when it happened. But he noticed pretty quickly that something was very, very different. He asked me about it and what i was feeling. i floundered and struggled to explain and find a link... a reason for the sudden change.. i blubbered on about this thing and that for a while, but i had to tell him i just didn't know.. i couldn't explain. i just felt empty and somewhat sad. i was speaking low, very quietly, less able to meet his gaze but not feeling afraid.
he handled it all beautifully... when he saw the change he changed his tone and body language.. he spoke more softly.
i think now we lost an opportunity though.. after a lot of thought on it afterwards, and regaining my ability to process and express, i think what happened was that he got to meet me.. the quiet me, the shy me. WHen i am like that i am unable to analyze as well, and i am not as able to express what i feel... everything feels too loud and too empty all at once. i wish i had understood while i was there.
my big "production" i put on for people, the "dory show" as my pdoc calls it... it stopped dead. i don't know what brought this about. It is SO rare for that to happen around another person, and without any provocation. It happened once before with T but it was because i was very upset and so i pulled everything in and stopped the "show." The change is dramatic.
this is scary... on one hand it could be a sign that something in me trusts him more... on the other it means that sometimes i am going to shift gears and "expose" myself whether i want to or not! One big problem with doing that is that he is going to want to do stuff to me.. mess with my head. He's going to want to pull parts out. He's going to hurt me.
i feel sad. so deeply sad and afraid.
Posted by RealMe on September 17, 2007, at 22:08:52
In reply to a new twist to therapy today, posted by Dory on September 17, 2007, at 18:18:06
Dory
This is really good, and you should let your T know about what you just posted here and what you came to realize happened. He will know in the future what is happening and will then be able to explore with you the trigger, because as inoxious as it may seem, there was one. I can understand being sad and scared, and T needs to know this for the future so you can process it before you leave for the day. It is a learning process for therapists too--to know in this instance what this quiet you is about. I am actually proud of you for this. I hope that doesn't upset you.
RealMe
Posted by Dory on September 17, 2007, at 23:26:18
In reply to Re: a new twist to therapy today » Dory, posted by RealMe on September 17, 2007, at 22:08:52
no, of course not, you haven't upset me one bit. it actually made me blush that you said you were proud of me. Thank you.
i wrote a letter to my T tonight about what happened. i think it was a good thing, even if it does make me very afraid. The sadness comes with the quietness..quite often anyway. i wish i understood it better...but when i am in that state i just don't have the same ability to express myself... so i have no idea how he is going to work with me like that.
Posted by RealMe on September 17, 2007, at 23:48:51
In reply to Re: a new twist to therapy today » RealMe, posted by Dory on September 17, 2007, at 23:26:18
Don't worry; he will know. Maybe this is like a small child??? I was like that as a small child, quiet and then of course can't think like an adult. I still get like that sometimes. My T will say, what are you thinking, and like last week when I got quiet all of a sudden and he asked, I said, "I just see penises all over on your carpet." And then I started crying. It is a Persian carpet (like a Rorschach). I have always seen various animals and statues, etc. but on that day everything looked like a penis, and so he knew right away that I was back when I was a child and could not look at him and could not look down. I was in a horrible state and very quiet. Maybe you are back as a child with being scared of something??? I don't know for you; but I know what it is for me.
Sorry if I freaked you or anyone. I don't mean to, but your post helps me too. Thanks.
RealMe
Posted by muffled on September 18, 2007, at 0:07:23
In reply to Re: a new twist to therapy today **trigger** » Dory, posted by RealMe on September 17, 2007, at 23:48:51
Yeah.
The child thing.
Like last week I was sitting OK, next thing I all curled and kinda sorta twisting my hands.
Or when I get where I slouch low, and am monosyllabic.
Ya, I change accordingly sometimes, to triggers I guess. But I pretty good a keeping it low. I think. Or mebbe I wish.
Dunno.
Sucks.
Hate it.
But maybe you can speak for the mute one. Explain what she feels and stuff?
That might be good.
Hope I not saying stupid things.
I been doing that lately.
Hope it passes soon.
Take care Dory.
M
Posted by RealMe on September 18, 2007, at 1:02:03
In reply to Re: a new twist to therapy today **trigger**, posted by muffled on September 18, 2007, at 0:07:23
Muffled
I should be in bed and will go shortly. But first I have to say you are not stupid, and you have not been saying stupid things. ARRGGGH. I am not angry with you, but you sound like I used to sound, saying you are stupid or say stupid things, etc. I have never known you to sound stupid!!! Be proud you can be you in all ways. It is good you don't play a role or try to be something or someone you are not. We all say goofy things and act goofy and wish we did not say something or wish we didn't act certain ways. Boy do I know.
I certainly hate going to therapy and getting in touch with being a child again. AGGGH. Makes me want to gag. Like now I want to kick my therpist where it will really hurt. Other times, well I dreamed the one time we were having sex, and I have never told him. Sure won't tell him that on Wednesday. So, we are all duffaces. My favorite word as it does not mean stupid just duffy. I used to make up lots of words, and my husband thought it was cute. He did not realize it was my way of expressing what was going on with me in my own language. Dufface is not one of those words. Don't know where I first heard it.
Okay, I am really rambling now.
RealMe
Posted by Dory on September 18, 2007, at 8:11:30
In reply to Re: a new twist to therapy today **trigger** » Dory, posted by RealMe on September 17, 2007, at 23:48:51
no need for apologies, honest.
no, it isn't like that at all. This is all me, adult me. i have never experienced anything that i would consider being a child or anything. i have found it interesting that people do, i like to learn about what other people experience.
this is more what i would call quiet-me... you see, i feel kind of divided a lot. i tell my T that it's like two people arguing. It's not an alter or anything, it's all me and i know me in each state. But the difference is sometimes little and sometimes huge. A spectrum i guess, with the public-me at one end and the quiet-me at the other. If i am quiet-me i avoid interaction and people rarely get to meet that part of me. That's what confused me i think.
i sometimes refer to that side of me as the real me, but i think what i mean is that you can't meet the real me without that side too. The public-me is bolder, talkative, and a crowd-pleaser in many ways.
not being able to express what i feel or think is partially because the other side of the argument drowns it out. To me it's a little like left-brain vs right-brain... speech centre is in the left so everything we "hear" in our heads gets interpreted by the left side. That's why things like drawing or other rightbrain activities are often effective in therapy. Split brain patients fascinate me. i saw one lady in a documentary in class once, she would reach into the closet with one hand to get what she thought she wanted to wear, but the other hand would reach in and pick out something else. Cool eh?
i'm not saying i switch from left to right, but it's a good analogy.
i've also referred to it as thinking-me vs feeling-me... and one has trouble "getting" the other. Thinking me has all the language. When i try to express feelings i often lose my words. Feeling-me or quiet-me just can't make sense of it even though the connection to the feelings is stronger. i think once my T understands this, if he agrees with me, i think it will get better because i think both of us will have a better chance of adapting. i won't be as confused and he, hopefully will learn how to shift gears with me. In my letter i am asking/begging him to guide me more during those times because quiet-me is more shy and less forward... i want him to question me more then. i will answer as best i can, but i don't think i could direct the session at those times.
i don't know. i could be way off base in what i think about this. Like i said, it's not two people really, but it's just easier to describe it that way.
i am so very sorry that those states are so painful for you.. i won't say i am sorry they happen because i am guessing they need to happen. It is such a good thing you and your T understand what happens and can deal with it. That takes a lot of trust. It also takes a lot of ovaries to share it here. i appreciate your doing so.
Posted by Dory on September 18, 2007, at 8:20:51
In reply to Re: a new twist to therapy today **trigger**, posted by muffled on September 18, 2007, at 0:07:23
Realme is right, what you're saying isn't stupid at all. What makes your posts so great is their honesty. You are very honest and open here and dare i say vulnerable in a way? you just throw it out there completely raw. i hope you can get to be that way with your T, just say it all and not hold back or be afraid.
You don't need to apologize or put down what you say. There isn't any arrogance about it. There are hints of an innocent not-understanding side, but never ignorance or malice. You say what you think without trying to cut anyone down.
i'm still trying to understand what has happened... i am very open to ideas and interpretations and i am going on what "feels" right... but i could be full of it.
and like you, i feel the need to say that i don't know jack...but it's a hell of a lot better than thinking we know it all
Posted by Dinah on September 18, 2007, at 8:20:58
In reply to Re: a new twist to therapy today **trigger** » RealMe, posted by Dory on September 18, 2007, at 8:11:30
lol. I wrote my post below at the same time you were writing yours, but we used a lot of the same terminology. :) It's nice to know I'm not alone.
Posted by Dory on September 18, 2007, at 8:23:20
In reply to Re: a new twist to therapy today **trigger** » Dory, posted by RealMe on September 17, 2007, at 23:48:51
oh one more thing... i am fascinated by people who dream about their T's, especially sex dreams. It's weird in a good way.. can you say more about it? i mean, what else was going on besides sex? who was "in control?" i am not a voyeur, i am more interested in the things which are represented.
you don't have to answer...i mean, it may be too personal or too triggering.
Posted by muffled on September 18, 2007, at 23:22:07
In reply to Re: a new twist to therapy today **trigger** » muffled, posted by RealMe on September 18, 2007, at 1:02:03
Rambling LOL!
Actually realme that was a very sweet post and I thank you for it :-)
Good luck with your T.....and NO KICKING allowed! Only *I* get to kick my T!
Thanks realme ;-)
M
Posted by RealMe on September 18, 2007, at 23:24:16
In reply to Re: a new twist to therapy today **trigger** » RealMe, posted by Dory on September 18, 2007, at 8:23:20
I know what you mean about the differents sides of ourselves. People at work know me as confident and poised and capable and as someone who can hold her own on the stand in court when an attorney goes on the attack. I don't get rattled. I actually enjoy the challenge.
Then there is the me in therapy who starts crying and acting like an idiot in my terminology. I don't like for my T to see I am like that, and when I think about it, then I say to myself "How silly; if I acted like I do at work and actually felt that way (because it is not an act at work) in therapy, then what would be the point of therapy. I would be pretty fine I think. I was at a church board meeting tonight, and there I am the old confident me too. But I also joke around when things get tense and try to keep things from exploding when at meetings like this. So there is another side of me. The confident work person, the joking lets not go crazy here one at a meeting, and the insecure, do I really have to go into that stuff person in therapy. Then, of course there is how I am with my husband--loving sometimes, telling him to go to hell sometimes or saying fine, lets get a divorce or any other number of emotions. He likes to play practical jokes on me, and after years of marriage, you would think I would catch on. Nope. I am still a sucker for him to pull one over on me. He likes that, and I have to laugh too.
Re dream about therapist, unfortunately it is nothing all that juicy. I just remember we stood up together, and I grabbed him and hugged him and started to kiss him, and he responded (which I know would never happen in a million years, thank god). The kissing and fondling let to laying on the floor and starting to have intercourse, and then I woke up. Damn. I didn't even get to enjoy it. Instead I woke up in a cold sweat and thought, "Ain't no way I am telling him about this one for now." Yikes. Maybe that is why last week I saw penises everywhere on the carpet; you think??? HUM.
RealMe
Posted by muffled on September 18, 2007, at 23:28:58
In reply to Re: a new twist to therapy today **trigger** » muffled, posted by Dory on September 18, 2007, at 8:20:51
> Realme is right, what you're saying isn't stupid at all. What makes your posts so great is their honesty. You are very honest and open here and dare i say vulnerable in a way? you just throw it out there completely raw. i hope you can get to be that way with your T, just say it all and not hold back or be afraid.
**Awwwwww, blushing....:-) Actually, I dunno if I blush?
Ya, thanks, I wish I could talk to T too...but I write OK, and I take in babbleposts.
>
> You don't need to apologize or put down what you say. There isn't any arrogance about it. There are hints of an innocent not-understanding side, but never ignorance or malice. You say what you think without trying to cut anyone down.**OK, thanks ((Dory))
> i'm still trying to understand what has happened... i am very open to ideas and interpretations and i am going on what "feels" right... but i could be full of it.
**gee I hope you can figger it out, it sounds like it was pretty major thing for you. But a GOOD thing, so thats good. LOL, I am always saying I am full of it. Just told T that in my last e-mail to her!
> and like you, i feel the need to say that i don't know jack...but it's a hell of a lot better than thinking we know it all
**I dunno much really. Truly most of me's not smart, but there is a part that can be pretty damn clever! LOL. But fortunately/unfortunately, its not around much! Nope noboddy knows it all except teenagers....from what I gather, they DO know it all!! ROFL!!!
Take care Dory, hope you can get some answers soon. you could use a break.
M
Posted by Dory on September 19, 2007, at 16:51:35
In reply to Re: a new twist to therapy today **trigger** » Dory, posted by RealMe on September 18, 2007, at 23:24:16
well... not quite that either.. maybe i am using the wrong words or expressions somehow. i have sides of myself that are different for different situations as well... but i honestly feel it's an argument between two people. Like conjoined twins, all one person, and there is no losing time or alters or anything like that... like two people fighting over a microphone? One always regrets what the other decides. i hate to use language that makes it sound like two distinct people, but i don't know of words which accurately describe what i mean. It's somewhere in between your description of different sides of yourself and having another distinct personality... more on your side though. This is harder to describe than i thought. Maybe two states of mind?
i understand how i got to be this way and i have to talk with T about that.
The bolder, extroverted me... the one who wins people over quickly and will jump at the chance to do anything new... well, that part of me is dominant, publicly anyway. But in that state of mind i make impulsive decisions and often poor choices. i am too loud and too assertive, sometimes read as aggressive. i can generally pull it off when i need to, but not always, and it requires so much emotional/mental energy that i have to limit my time with others, etc.
when on the flip side i am so quiet people sometimes think i am mad at them. But i tend to avoid being among people i know then.. or out at all if i can help it. i hestitate. i often still make bad choices because i wait too long or just completely waffle back and forth unable to decide. It takes a LOT of effort not to become isolated and depressed during those times.
The real me, the whole me, is somewhere in between.
i started out life more or less as the quiet me and carefully developed the other side over time... deliberately mostly. Now that is as much me as anything else is. But it's like a prosthetic leg that i can run without. i taught myself what little i know about confidence, etc... and as a child i did not know enough to do a good job, or how to build that up like a strong wall.
i need to learn how to grow quiet me into a full person, and integrate the benefits of bold me. i need to take good things from both to dampen the lesser of both. The public me has a huge number of benefits for me, and i have acheived so much by being able to carry that off... and though it's not completely who i am i don't want to have a personality transplant.
you said it wasn't an act for you... some of my public self is, a lot of it is. That is why what i do now at school is so important to me... it speaks to *me* i can be confident and have something to say without faking it.
i want to stop putting on "the show" and learn to be me... all of me.
does this make sense?
Posted by RealMe on September 19, 2007, at 21:21:47
In reply to Re: a new twist to therapy today **trigger** » RealMe, posted by Dory on September 19, 2007, at 16:51:35
Dory, that is very insightful, and I think it is fantastic that you know what you need to do and want to do. Some awesome person you are already!!
RealMe
This is the end of the thread.
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