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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Happyflower on April 10, 2007, at 8:59:06
He smiled and waved at me and I swear his eyes twinkle and it totally lights up his face. I love his smiles. Something so simple, but yet it is special because he is smiling at me! I don't know if I have ever had anyone that could make me melt like he does.
Okay I know you are all sick of hearing about my love stories, but I can't tell anyone else. :-P
I am really missing him, it has been 6 weeks.
Posted by pegasus on April 10, 2007, at 10:50:11
In reply to How come my T face seems so bright?, posted by Happyflower on April 10, 2007, at 8:59:06
I think it's because he's glad he gets to run into you at the gym. I bet he's missing you, too.
I've been doing a lot of research recently about therapy terminations (trying to work through my own forced termination a while back). Lately I've run into a couple of articles about how it affects the *T*, and not just the client. Now, I don't want to wish depression on anyone, or anything like that, but I do have to say that I find it comforting to read about how Ts often have their own hard time with therapy termination. I think your T is looking forward to talking to you again, too.
peg
Posted by Happyflower on April 10, 2007, at 12:16:58
In reply to Re: How come my T face seems so bright? » Happyflower, posted by pegasus on April 10, 2007, at 10:50:11
Thank you Peg for your postive post, it made me feel so good. Sometimes I feel I shouldn't post stuff like this, but you made it feel okay.
I believe T's have all their own issues when it comes to termination. I think I have read where how they don't feel "needed" anymore, now we know they don't want us to depend on them forever, but for them sometimes it is hard for them to feel less "magical" to the client. I guess sometimes even though they are very happy for us, it does feel like rejection for them too.
I have even read how they sometimes feel jelous when a client, who have given them so much attention, suddenly finds a "new love" in their life, and their "specialness" is less to the client. Most T's can handle any of this stuff, but sometimes their own ego's and emotions make it tough for them to let go.
I remember telling my T maybe a year ago, that is sucks that I can't have a social relationship with him. He said it sucks for him too, because I would be someone who he thinks he would enjoy to have a social relationship and that he doesn't feel that way with all his clients.
I think they don't include much training in dealing with T's feelings, when it comes to termination, so some handle it very poorly (like scentedgarden's T).
I think my T is happy to see me sometimes, because you can tell a real smile from a fake or forced one.
I have tried like hell to not care about him, especially when I first came to this site and heard the sad stories, but I couldn't help it, I care about him a great deal. There is nobody quite like him. :-)
But I want to thank you again, for not getting sick of my stories, and even if you do, you still post to me, so that is so cool. In fact you made my day today. :-)
Posted by wishingstar on April 10, 2007, at 14:58:02
In reply to Re: How come my T face seems so bright? » Happyflower, posted by pegasus on April 10, 2007, at 10:50:11
gg, would you be willing to share the references for those articles? I'd be very interested in reading them. I too am still trying to come to terms with my own bad termination (Anne) and I know its still an issue for me, even though I dont talk about it anymore. I'm also facing a whole new set of issues recently with having my own set of clients (and terminations to come) at the new job. Sorry to butt into the thread like this, but I'd love to see them. Thanks!
Posted by wishingstar on April 10, 2007, at 15:17:25
In reply to Re: How come my T face seems so bright? » Happyflower, posted by pegasus on April 10, 2007, at 10:50:11
sorry pegasus, I somehow got it in my head that gg had posted that response... not sure where that came from. Obviously, it was directed at you, not gg! Oops.
Posted by JoniS on April 10, 2007, at 15:32:07
In reply to How come my T face seems so bright?, posted by Happyflower on April 10, 2007, at 8:59:06
Happyflower,
I feel the same way about mine. I'm glad you shared that, you can keep on. I know you see him at the gym, but how did termintion come about, did you finish something specific that you were working on, or what? I don't mean to pry. I wont be seeing my T at he gym, and not likely anywhere, so I imagine whenever termination comes it will be so difficult.
Posted by Happyflower on April 10, 2007, at 17:31:49
In reply to Re: How come my T face seems so bright?, posted by JoniS on April 10, 2007, at 15:32:07
Hi Joni,
When I first came into therapy I was suffereing bad from PTSD due to my past and my mother (who was my abuser growing up) was threatening my life and abducting my kids, etc. ( alot of my story is in the archive if you search under my posting name) I was not sleeping due to several nightmares every night, didn't want to go into the public because I was afraid my mom would kill me, she would also show up at my house, threatening me) I couldn't get a protection order from her because she didn't physical hurt me since I was child, so all the threats, etc, didn't count. I did file a police complaint though.
Well I worked out a lot of past and present issued due from her. Well in the meantime, my DH deceided to have an affair. I suspected it for a long time, since their was not intimacy beween us, but it was later confirmed. Well he refused to go to thearpy, and refused to work it out with me. When I had kids I basically stopped working at my career, I was making good money, almost as much as him. Well now after 13 years of being a stay at home mom who also homeschools her kids, I have no income and became to rely on him 100 financially. Well due to our area school, I have to homeschool them if I want them to succeed and go to college. So now I am in a loveless marriag trying to make it work for the kids.I have gone back to college, getting an A average, starting playing my trumpet again( i used to be a music major), I am exercising everyday for now almost 2 years. I have accomplished a lot from the scared girl hiding away in my house.
Things are stable for me, so I sort of started the talk of termination. Then he keep it going, even when I had totally doubt of wanting to do it. But I am glad he is pushing me, because I don't know if I would do it on my own for a long time. I will still have problems just like everyone else, but I believe I am able to handle them on my own. I have friends now, and am quite the social bee compaired to the shy reserved one.
So I guess I am okay for the most part, so I feel it is time. I do believe seeing him at the gym is helping me a lot with termination. Well I tried to tell you a very condensed history of me, so I hope it can help you.
Posted by sunnydays on April 10, 2007, at 19:22:21
In reply to Re: How come my T face seems so bright? » JoniS, posted by Happyflower on April 10, 2007, at 17:31:49
I just have question. It's not meant as criticism, I seriously am curious. See, I have had times in the past when I was stable and didn't have the PTSD symptoms anymore, but I always seem to have other, self-esteem issues, and other sorts of issues that I work on then. How did you do it in only 2 years? I'm seriously only curious because I wish I could do it that fast, it's taking me way longer than I ever expected (it's been two years now and I'm nowhere near done).
sunnydays
Posted by Happyflower on April 10, 2007, at 19:42:46
In reply to Re: How come my T face seems so bright? » Happyflower, posted by sunnydays on April 10, 2007, at 19:22:21
Hi Sunnydays,
I believe we are all different, no 2 situations are alike. Some have more issues, some have less but take more time, some are in forever therapy, it varies so much. In the end, there will always be problems, this is what life is, so expecting little or no problems when we terminate therapy is really setting us up for disapointment and unrealistic expectations
.
I really pushed myself, EMDR probably helped things go faster than traditional desensaization therapy. I was also ready too.
There are things we can do independently from our T's too. Some of the stuff I did, was my idea, he supported me, but it was me who really pushed myself to have a better life. I have always been a fighter, fighter for my life, and now fighter for a better life. I have a lot of determation, always have. I have always been able to function very well in spite of my problems.
But yeah, I still have some self esteem problems, I think I am too fat, but I am doing something about it. Most people have some self esteem challenges. I know even my T does.
I guess one thing to keep in mind, and maybe you know this already. But it was ME who changed, my T helped me, but I did what it taked for me. I believe we each have to dig deep inside of us to make it happen. But only when we are truely ready. Our T's can't fix us, but we can. So I don't know if that helps or not, but remember we are all different.
If you haven't been through desensation therapy yet for your PTSD, the symptoms will probably still occure. But I treated the deep issues of the causes, and I no longer have the disorder. But it is painful work. I am not on any meds, nor did I need any. I think some have to be somewhat stable to even go into this intense therapy sometimes with the help of drugs.
So don't compare yourself to others, because you really don't know their whole story, and it will only make you feel bad. Does this help?
Posted by sunnydays on April 10, 2007, at 21:47:45
In reply to Re: How come my T face seems so bright? » sunnydays, posted by Happyflower on April 10, 2007, at 19:42:46
> Hi Sunnydays,
>
> I believe we are all different, no 2 situations are alike. Some have more issues, some have less but take more time, some are in forever therapy, it varies so much.**** Oh yeah. I sooo wish there was a way to have a manual for life that's easily generalizable to everyone. Then everyone could know what was best for them. But it would definitely take the interesting-ness out of life.
In the end, there will always be problems, this is what life is, so expecting little or no problems when we terminate therapy is really setting us up for disapointment and unrealistic expectations
**** Well, I would hope for few problems when I terminate. I know it's unrealistic to have no problems, because everyone has their issues.
> .
> I really pushed myself, EMDR probably helped things go faster than traditional desensaization therapy. I was also ready too.**** Yeah. I know I'm ready because it was my decision to tell my T what happened to me, and I have joined a trauma survivors group (although I haven't told them, but that has more to do with issues the group is having at the moment than with my issues).
> There are things we can do independently from our T's too. Some of the stuff I did, was my idea, he supported me, but it was me who really pushed myself to have a better life. I have always been a fighter, fighter for my life, and now fighter for a better life. I have a lot of determation, always have. I have always been able to function very well in spite of my problems.
**** I'm glad you're a fighter. Me too. I have managed to maintain almost a straight-A average in school while dealing with all this, and I have gotten a job, and joined this group. I have made so many improvements in my life. My T helped me and pushed me to make some of them, but it was all my decision and my effort that made them happen. I'm really proud of myself about that (at least some of the time, except when I'm depressed and forget all those accomplishments).
> But yeah, I still have some self esteem problems, I think I am too fat, but I am doing something about it. Most people have some self esteem challenges. I know even my T does.
**** Definitely. I haven't met anyone without self-esteem issues. Mine are just not at the point where I have them fixed enough for my comfort yet. I still have problems asking for birthday presents (a recent issue because I turn 21 soon) because I don't feel worthy of gifts. So still working on that. I can't force myself to believe differently. It takes lots of positive self-talk.
> I guess one thing to keep in mind, and maybe you know this already. But it was ME who changed, my T helped me, but I did what it taked for me. I believe we each have to dig deep inside of us to make it happen.
**** Yeah, definitely. I am working sooo hard. I tell my T sometimes when he pushes me that there's only so hard I can work. I feel like I am making changes at the speed of light. It seems like every time I turn around I have made some big change in my life, it seems like. My T has helped so so much, but no, he definitely hasn't done it for me, as much I sometimes wish he could have.
But only when we are truely ready. Our T's can't fix us, but we can. So I don't know if that helps or not, but remember we are all different.
**** Yeah. I really am ready. It's been a long process, but I am ready, and I am working so hard right now. Hopefully it will all be worth it in the end, as I don't want to spend the rest of my life as miserable as it might be if I didn't do this work. And when I feel like I'm a failure at life, I try to remind myself I'm only 20 (soon 21) and so really I have the rest of my life to make it absolutely the best I want it to be. It's not quite that simple in reality, but sometimes reminding myself of that helps. Sometimes not.
> If you haven't been through desensation therapy yet for your PTSD, the symptoms will probably still occure. But I treated the deep issues of the causes, and I no longer have the disorder.
*** I have not done EMDR, but we work on the issues all the time. It comes and goes once in a while, but it's not as bad as it has been. I'm happy for you that you no longer have it. I was told once that I was over my trauma, before I met this T, but that T knew nothing about me. I think that just encouraged me to hide the trauma away and not talk about it.
But it is painful work. I am not on any meds, nor did I need any. I think some have to be somewhat stable to even go into this intense therapy sometimes with the help of drugs.
**** Definitely. I am stable - I think a lot of any unstableness I feel comes from doing the work, not anything biologically inherent in me.
> So don't compare yourself to others, because you really don't know their whole story, and it will only make you feel bad. Does this help?
**** Well, that's easier said than done, as I have an issue where I always compare myself to anyone and everyone. Yet another thing to work on. It does help to hear your thoughts. It's just that the work gets so complicated sometimes, I just wish someone could give me the answers on how to find the quick way out of all the pain. You must remember those excruciatingly painful times when you thought it might never go away. That's why I'm so interested in how you were able to do it so quickly.
sunnydays
Posted by Happyflower on April 10, 2007, at 21:59:34
In reply to Re: How come my T face seems so bright?, posted by sunnydays on April 10, 2007, at 21:47:45
You know Sunnydays, I thought it was taking me forever at times. I still have my bad days, but they tend not to last long.
It sounds like you have been working very hard, and you are ready! :)Sometimes I need to be reminded of the good stuff I have done, because sometimes especially in my unhappy marriage it is easy to let him tear me down. I seem to not let him push my buttons as much, but it still happens.
I wish I was able to work all of this out in my 20's . I am 38 and I think of all the lost years of my life due to suffering. But in a way I apprecitate life so much more, and I am really trying to take it all in.
I think you will be okay, and I bet you have come farther and are farther than you think. Your post convinced me of that. I am sure we will be reading your story and you will have a young (sunnydays) asking you how you did it so fast. :-)
Keep up the good work, I am cheering you on, girl!
Posted by pegasus on April 11, 2007, at 10:54:38
In reply to Re: How come my T face seems so bright? » pegasus, posted by wishingstar on April 10, 2007, at 14:58:02
Hi wishingstar,
Sure thing. Let me get my reference list all organized, though. Might take a couple of days. Do you want only the articles that are about what Ts experience, or all of them about termination? I'm sort of focusing on forced termination in my searching, but I have papers about all kinds of aspects of termination. Some of them I have electronically, and could send you. I'll highlight those when I post it.
Interestingly, in the professional literature, most of the work on termination is about what they call "premature termination", which is when the client ditches a T before the T thinks the therapy is over. Ha Ha. That's premature. At least some of this work is a bit self reflective, in terms of trying to figure out what types of things make clients flee.
I guess if I ever go for a Ph.D., I know what my dissertation will be about. ;)
peg
Posted by Happyflower on April 11, 2007, at 11:19:40
In reply to termination references » wishingstar, posted by pegasus on April 11, 2007, at 10:54:38
I would like to see those references too, especially the ones from what a T goes through.
Posted by antigua on April 11, 2007, at 14:47:13
In reply to termination references » wishingstar, posted by pegasus on April 11, 2007, at 10:54:38
It's funny but I had this very conversation with my T today. She said I could "leave" therapy today and function very well, but I would be leaving before I was "finished".
antigua
Posted by wishingstar on April 11, 2007, at 19:46:06
In reply to termination references » wishingstar, posted by pegasus on April 11, 2007, at 10:54:38
If you have them, all would be great! I dont want to create extra work for you though. I did a few PsycInfo searches on the topic a few months back and found the same thing you mentioned.. tons and tons of info about clients running away, but none about therapists pulling the plug, in either an ethical or an unethical way.
Thanks so much!
Posted by pegasus on April 12, 2007, at 9:30:18
In reply to Re: termination references » pegasus, posted by wishingstar on April 11, 2007, at 19:46:06
OK, here's my whole reference list at this point. The ones that I have electronic copies of are starred. I'm working to get more of the articles, as well as more references. So you might want to check back later. So far I've only read the abstracts of most of these.
- peg
Baum, N. (2006). End-of-Year Treatment Termination: Responses of Social Work Student Trainees. British Journal of Social Work, 36(4):639-656.
*Baum. N. (2005). Correlates of Clients’ emotional and Behavioral Responses to Treatment Termination. Clinical Social Work Journal, 33(3): 309-326.
Bergmann, M.S. (1997). Termination: The Achilles Heel of Psychoanalytic TechniquePsychoanalystic Psychology, 14(2):163-174.*Boyer, S.P. and Hoffman, M.A. (1993). Couselor Afective Reactions to Termination: Impact of Counselor Loss History and Perceived Client Sensitivity to Loss. Journal of Counseling Psychology, 40(3):271-277.
*David Mischoulon, M.D., Ph.D., Jerrold F. Rosenbaum, M.D. and Edward Messner, M.D.
*Garcia-Lawson, K.A., and Lane, R.C. (1997). Thoughts on Termination: Practical Considerations. Psychoanalytic Psychology, 14:239-257.
*Garcia-Lawson, K.A., Lane, R.C., and Koetting, M.G. (2000). Sudden Death of the Therapist: The Effects on the Patient, Journal of Contemporary PsychotherapY, 30(1):85-103.
Glick, R.A. (1987). Forced Terminations. Journal of American Academy of Psychoanalysis, 15:449-463.
*Kalman, T.P. (1993). Here Today, Gone Tomorrow: The Impact on Patients When Their Psychiatrist Moves Away. Journal of Psychotherapy Practice and Research, 2(1):73-86.
*Martin, J.R. (2002). A Symposium on Therapeutic Termination: Principles and Obstacles -- Chair's Introduction. Journal of Psychotherapy Integration, 12(3):347-349.
Martinez, D. (1989). Pains and Gains: A Study of Forced Terminations. Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association, 37:89-115.
*Marx, J.A. and Gelso, C.J. (1987). Termination of Individual Counseling in a University Counseling Center. Journal of Counseling Psychology, 34(1):3-9.
*Mischoulon, D., Rosenbaum, J.F., and Messner, E. (2000). Transfer to a New Psychopharmacologist Its Effect on Patients. Academic Psychiatry 24:156-163.
*Penn. L.S. (1990). When the Therapist Must Leave: Forced Termination of Psychodynamic Therapy. Professional Psychology: Research and Practice, 21(5):379-384.
*Quintana, S.M. and Holahan, W. (1992). Termination in Short-Term Counseling: Comparison of Successful and Unsuccessful Cases. Journal of Counseling Psychology, 39(3):299-305.
*Quintana. S.M. (1993). Toward and Expanded and Updated Conceptualization of Termination: Implications for Short-Term, Individual Psychotherapy. Professional Psychology: Research and Practice, 24(4):426-432.
Siebold, C. (1991). Termination: When the therapist leaves. Clinical Social Work JournaL, 19(2):191-204.
Super, S.I. (1982). Successful transition: Therapeutic interventions with the transferred client, Clinical Social Work JournaL, 10(2):113-122.
Szecsödy, I. (1999). How can we end psychoanalysis — and still have a follow-up of it? Scandinavian Psychoanalytic Review, 22:48-66.
Zuckerman, A., and Mitchell, C.L. (2005). Psychology Interns' Perspectives on the Forced Termination of Psychotherapy. The Clinical Supervisor, 23(1):55-70.
Posted by pegasus on April 13, 2007, at 11:54:28
In reply to Re: termination references, posted by pegasus on April 12, 2007, at 9:30:18
This is the end of the thread.
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