![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 37 to 61 of 78. Go back in thread:
Posted by gazo on March 21, 2007, at 11:44:17
In reply to Re: Your Opinion: Am I Right Or)) Jeff » gazo, posted by Jeff Smith on March 21, 2007, at 7:03:00
> "When I said the word evil (which you just took out of context)no worries. I did see how it could hit people the wrong way but it didn'tmatter to me.. just commenting back. I tend to let most stuff just go, I mean, your thoughts and your words. I know you were joking.:o) I don't see the issue either way really, unless you are being truly hateful or attacking someone here. The rest is just words expressing someone's feelings.
>
> As for the hospital in NYCdefinitely call. I really hope this works out for you. You sound a LOT better than the other day. :):)
Posted by Jeff Smith on March 21, 2007, at 13:28:04
In reply to Re: Your Opinion: Am I Right Or)) Jeff, posted by gazo on March 21, 2007, at 11:44:17
>
> > "When I said the word evil (which you just took out of context)
>
> no worries. I did see how it could hit people the wrong way but it didn'tmatter to me.. just commenting back. I tend to let most stuff just go, I mean, your thoughts and your words. I know you were joking.:o) I don't see the issue either way really, unless you are being truly hateful or attacking someone here. The rest is just words expressing someone's feelings.
>
>
> >
> > As for the hospital in NYC
>
> definitely call. I really hope this works out for you. You sound a LOT better than the other day. :):)
>
>OK, just to totally clarify : )
You, racer, just quoted that I said "When I said the word evil (which you just took out of context)" in my last post to you.
Well when I wrote that to you I explained that it was a quote from me from the last post I had made to cine... so I was actually referring to her as the person taking the word evil out of context and not you. No big deal, just wanted to clarify.And thanks for the encouragment... I feel less hopeless and like there may possibly be some help in the cards.
Posted by Jeff Smith on March 21, 2007, at 13:41:57
In reply to Re: Another perspective » Jeff Smith, posted by Honore on March 21, 2007, at 10:42:32
> It is really tough at this moment to find a good, affordable T, or pdoc. Esp. in NYC. The irony is that there probably are more good ones in NYC than in many other cities-- they just charge extraordinary fees.
>
> The thing is, if you approach the situation with a "show me" attitude, you're likely to get less out of it. Or course, you're depressed, frustrated, angry. It's all too natural to feel as if some expert needs to find the right answer and then prove that it's the right one, before you go through any more misery.
>
> There are a couple of people here who've gone through the mill and finally, after many failures and disappointments, found drug combos which, despite being unusual, work for them- when all the standard treatments not only failed, but wreaked various forms of temporary havoc. It's a hard road, but they did get to something that worked.
>
> The best answer is to try (as much as possible) to adopt their attitude--as unfamiliar as it is, as difficult as adoption may be ( I do mysekf)-- despite falling into cynicism, dismissiveness, and angry despair when the person isn't who I've wanted, and their approach isn't that much what I'd like. It's a big part of the struggle to give some degree of trust, without trusting too much, and therefore feeling un bearably awful when things don't work.
>
> There are drugs, for example, that don't cause weight gain-- Wellbutrin, Parnate, and combinations. Not everyone gains weight even with the drugs that do have that tendency. You have to submit to the unfortunate process== if you want to get to that place where you feel better. No expert can spare you that-- although I'm sure they woudl, if they could. Science just isn't at that point-- at the moment.
>
> So we TR people are stuck with going through a lot of yuckiness if we want to have a chance to get to a better life.
>
> It's understandable to be angry, to be furious even at the pdocs and Ts who weren't very well trained, or on-the-mark. I guess the best thing to do is try to forgive them their limitations-- and to invest yourself in looking for something better.
>
> I take a small dose of abilify myself-- and have found it incredibly much better than my AD alone-- but that's me, and my body chemistry. It's really finding out, by trial and error, what you can use, and what you can't. Doing research, looking for the right person, despite the hard road. I think everyone here will try to give you support and suggestions, if it gets disappointing-- but if you turn away in anger and resentment, you, in the end, are the one left without the treatment you need.
>
> That, I think, is what everyone is saying, in one way or another.
>
> Honore
>
>Thanks Honore, for understanding me and the advise.
I really have nothing specific to add, which is probably a good thing since Im not disagreeing with any of your points... although I could tweak a thing here or there but over all I agree. : )
Posted by gazo on March 21, 2007, at 16:57:36
In reply to Re: Your Opinion: Am I Right Or)) Jeff » gazo, posted by Jeff Smith on March 21, 2007, at 13:28:04
it's wonderful what a little hope can do. :) Never, ever give up hope.
Posted by Jeff Smith on March 21, 2007, at 19:30:29
In reply to Re: Your Opinion: Am I Right Or Just Crazy/Irrit » one woman cine, posted by Jeff Smith on March 20, 2007, at 14:17:37
> > >>>>>Im sure we all heard that cliche (dont know if its true or not) that shrinks are all f*cked up themselves... but lets assume its true and theyre all evil just for now.
> >
> > Um, then why seek help at all if they are *all* just stupid, evil and money hungry as you say they are?
> >
> >
>
>
> Why seek help at all? Because I need it and these are the people you go to for it. Same reason anyone else would seek help.
> I never said they were *all* "just stupid" (or if I did then please just quote where I said that?).
> When I said the word evil (which you just took out of context) I said it like this: "And that sucks that you were rejected for that reason. Im sure we all heard that cliche (dont know if its true or not) that shrinks are all f*cked up themselves... but lets assume its true and theyre all evil just for now. : )"
> If you could tell, that was said in jest. Note the smiley face and words "just for now". : )
> I dont at all believe all shrinks are evil or that they have any higher percentage of "evil" people than non shrinks do.
> Money hungry? It would be unfair to say they ALL money hungry as I dont know statistics or all of them personally... but yes I believe they more money hungry than humanitarian. What percentage I dont know and have no way of finding out.
>
> So:
> Why did you not reply to my last post to you or answer any of the questions in it, and instead come up with this question apparently in response to that quote from me to gazo?
> Are you for some reason angry or insulted or offended?
> Im confused.Cine is so sweet!! : )
In reply to my very last question to her above ("Are you for some reason angry or insulted or offended?"
) she provided me with two babble mails with nice helpful hints and lovely compliments. Shes even helping me out!! Well not in any ordinary way you might think was helpful but this is something different and more clever. This type of help is more of a lesson for me to learn from Cine. Perhaps you might call it a morality lesson.
You see, as she stated, "[xxx]"and also:
"[xxx]"
You see, Cine finds my posts to be "[xxx]" and my "[xxx]" to be "[xxx]" and finds me to "[xxx]". Along with those things I have also "[xxx]" all of my past therapists and I engage in "[xxx]" and therefore as a result of those things Cine has decided to not refer me to the few psychiatrists she knows in my area.
The lesson Im learning is much more valuable and helpful than any referrals to any psychiatrists would ever be: The lesson is that when you're going through major mental hell/trauma and your extremely depressed and frustrated and angry and hopeless (etc, etc) do NOT come to a psychiatric support board and express your true feelings. This may anger someone.
No sir. And if you are angry and disappointed and frustrated over the fact that youve had nothing but crappy, unqualified and useless therapists then do NOT express yourself and complain about them at a psychiatric message board. Its not the therapists fault they couldnt help you, its yours.
Those things are not good in the eyes of certain people. Those are NOT the type of qualities that any psychiatrist will accept in any patient... they dont wanna hear about your anger at your abusive parents or the guy who molested you. And if you possess those qualities then Cine is gonna withhold her referrals. : ) And thats only because shes trying to be helpful, and not to punish or judge you in any way. This doesnt mean she doesnt like me or thinks Im a bad person and nothing in her babble mails to me would indicate that.So do you get the lesson now? The lesson Ive learned is that if I was a different person and learned how to behave in an non angry way and make posts in certain ways that were acceptable to certain people then Id be worthy of certain referrals. But since Im not that kinda guy then Ill just have to suffer the consequences of not getting those referrals.
And I now know what I need to do to earn and achieve this and end my suffering.Its simple really. What I need to do is try not to have "[xxx]" posts or a "[xxx]" "[xxx]". If I can achieve this buy suppressing my true feelings and write as if Im happy as a clam then I can move on to learning to not "[xxx]" or "[xxx]" any previous or current or future or any therapist in general by suppressing those feelings too and instead posting about fluffy kittens and clowns or other things which arent negative about therapists.
If you too can achieve this then you will have earned a referral. If not then Im personally taking my referrals and my toys and Im not playing with you all as youre not worthy.Well thanks for this lesson Cine. : )
If lessons are allowed to be discussed here then perhaps we can discuss the others you taught me later.
Posted by Racer on March 21, 2007, at 20:20:04
In reply to Learning Lessons From Cine : ), posted by Jeff Smith on March 21, 2007, at 19:30:29
> Cine is so sweet!! : )
> Shes even helping me out!! Well not in any ordinary way you might think was helpful but this is something different and more clever.Please don't post anything which could lead others to feel accused or put down. If you have a problem with a babblemail from another poster, please use appropriate means to inform Dr Bob or the deputies, such as using the link at the bottom of each post.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Racer, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Racer on March 21, 2007, at 22:36:41
In reply to Learning Lessons From Cine : ), posted by Jeff Smith on March 21, 2007, at 19:30:29
Please don't post anything which could lead others to feel accused or put down, and please don't report another poster's communication on the board. If you've received a babblemail you feel is uncivil, please forward that, with headers, to Dr Bob and the deputies. Your babblemail to me included material which is not allowed under the civility guidelines, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to block you for a week.
This isn't personal, and doesn't mean I don't like you or sympathize with you. Dr Bob has final authority here and may choose to override any deputy decision. Until he has a chance to review this decision, however, I am going to block you.
Any discussion of this action should take place on the Admin board, or through the notification button below. And that discussion should, of course, be civil.
Racer, acting as deputy for Dr Bob
Posted by one woman cine on March 22, 2007, at 7:57:14
In reply to Learning Lessons From Cine : ), posted by Jeff Smith on March 21, 2007, at 19:30:29
Jeff, if you are going post private babblemails - (and only excerpts!) - I wish you had also posted yours to which I was only responding to. I would like you consider how you might feel if I were to do that.
Posted by Honore on March 23, 2007, at 3:11:40
In reply to Blocked for one week » Jeff Smith, posted by Racer on March 21, 2007, at 22:36:41
I think we were a little hard on Jeff Smith. It's pretty tough to be depressed and disappointed and seeking some sort of affirmation of one's okayness-- as he was-- and to be hit with a lot of rebuffs about realities of the world.
We could, in many instances, have been sympathetic and supportive (more overtly) rather than coming out of the stance that he needed to look at his "own actions"-- and that he was, to an extent that he maybe isn't aware of-- expecting more personal concern that you're just likely to get in the world, problems or not.
We may, to be honest, have just as easily said that it is hurtful to be turned away, and not given the help you need-- all because you don't have the money, and maybe are angry at the lack of appropriate response. I feel fairly sure that Jeff didn't get very much help-- and that he has a right to be disappointed and angry.
I've certainly been there-- and would have expected more kind and sympathetic responses. I'm not saying that, in the long run, what we said wasn't valid-- but just that there was an awful lot of it, and that he seemed to take it in pretty good humor-- It's easy to forget that there are a lot of not very good Ts out there-- and especially if you don't have money, you tend to run into them, and not have the resources to go elsewhere.
So if he is a newbie, I wish it hadn't seemed necessary to block him, and I hope he comes back.
He didn't really seem entitled to me-- any more than any of us is-- just in a less fortunate position, in a more economically stressful time. Being angry is certainly a big part of being depressed, for some people, and it didn't really bother me.
I for one was struck by a sense that it would be hard for him to get really high quality professional help, and to overcome years of depression. So it was hard to think about his struggle. Maybe I, for one, could have been given him a bit more clear compassion, rather than a lecture on things I , after many years of therapy, am only finally ready to see about how I interact.
It's hard to know how to be helpful, when someone really is in a tough situation. So I do hope it hasn't ended in his not wanting to keep coming here.
Honore
Posted by Dinah on March 23, 2007, at 10:29:54
In reply to Re: Blocked for one week, posted by Honore on March 23, 2007, at 3:11:40
I know I often find myself, especially in certain moods, trying to help. And certainly there's nothing wrong with wanting to be helpful. It's a wonderful thing.
But as my therapist tells me, sometimes a person isn't ready to accept the help part of an interaction until they feel heard and accepted exactly as they are.
He says that's especially true of me. :)
It sometimes takes a while to get the hang of the rules at Babble, which I'm guessing is true in most communal settings. Or at least I find it so. I'm still not sure I get the rules at church or at the office or at birthday parties. I sort of wish they were written down in a FAQ on the front door.
Posted by madeline on March 23, 2007, at 16:15:54
In reply to I hope Jeff comes back as well » Honore, posted by Dinah on March 23, 2007, at 10:29:54
You both make excellent excellent points. They are lessons we all can learn I think, but perhaps the most important one is to seek first and foremost to listen and understand.
Posted by Racer on March 23, 2007, at 19:45:49
In reply to Re: I hope Jeff comes back for honore too! » Dinah, posted by madeline on March 23, 2007, at 16:15:54
Honore has some awfully good points to make, and I agree with them. I hope he'll come back when his block is up.
And, for the record, I really didn't want to block him. I hope he'll come back, and that he won't hold it against me.
Posted by zazenduckie on March 24, 2007, at 9:45:28
In reply to Your Opinion: Am I Right Or Just Crazy/Irrational, posted by JeffSmith on March 19, 2007, at 12:15:39
Have you tried looking here?
http://therapists.psychcentral.com/psychcentral/
I'm not sure where you are but I looked up new york city and there were almost 200 listings. They include information about what insurance is accepted and availability of sliding scale fees. I only looked at a couple but one of those took medicare so maybe there are at least a few out there!
It might be a place to start looking. Most of them have email addresses. Even if someone can't see you maybe they can offer you a lead on someone else. Try to think of it like finding a job. You may have to make a lot of applications to find one but you only need to find one. So the more inquiries you make the better your chances.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with the first place you tried but I hope you won't give up.
I'm sorry you were blocked. Good luck.
Posted by Racer on March 24, 2007, at 13:57:44
In reply to Re: Your Opinion: Am I Right Or Just Crazy/Irrational » JeffSmith, posted by zazenduckie on March 24, 2007, at 9:45:28
Posted by Iwillsurvive on March 24, 2007, at 19:59:07
In reply to I hope he does come back, too., posted by Racer on March 23, 2007, at 19:45:49
>And, for the record, I really didn't want to block him. I hope he'll come back, and that he won't hold it against me.
*Racer, you were just doing your job. There really was no question about the block, even I understood this one. Its sad, but thats the way it is here.
Thanks for being a deputy.
Posted by Racer on March 24, 2007, at 20:26:17
In reply to Re: I hope he does come back, too. » Racer, posted by Iwillsurvive on March 24, 2007, at 19:59:07
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 25, 2007, at 15:45:54
In reply to Blocked for one week » Jeff Smith, posted by Racer on March 21, 2007, at 22:36:41
> Your babblemail to me included material which is not allowed under the civility guidelines, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to block you for a week.
>
> Dr Bob has final authority here and may choose to override any deputy decision.I'm glad Racer was keeping an eye on civility, those guidelines do apply to babblemail:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#babblemail
OTOH, I don't think you'd been reminded about that specifically, so I'm going to consider the above to have done that and unblock you.
Bob
Posted by Jeff Smith on March 25, 2007, at 18:27:22
In reply to Re: unblocked » Jeff Smith, posted by Dr. Bob on March 25, 2007, at 15:45:54
> > Your babblemail to me included material which is not allowed under the civility guidelines, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to block you for a week.
> >
> > Dr Bob has final authority here and may choose to override any deputy decision.
>
> I'm glad Racer was keeping an eye on civility, those guidelines do apply to babblemail:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#babblemail
>
> OTOH, I don't think you'd been reminded about that specifically, so I'm going to consider the above to have done that and unblock you.
>
> BobThanks for the unblock.
When Racer posted "Please don't post anything which could lead others to feel accused or put down, and please don't report another poster's communication on the board. If you've received a babblemail you feel is uncivil, please forward that, with headers, to Dr Bob and the deputies. Your babblemail to me included material which is not allowed under the civility guidelines, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to block you for a week.This isn't personal, and doesn't mean I don't like you or sympathize with you. Dr Bob has final authority here and may choose to override any deputy decision. Until he has a chance to review this decision, however, I am going to block you.
Any discussion of this action should take place on the Admin board, or through the notification button below. And that discussion should, of course, be civil.
Racer, acting as deputy for Dr Bob"
I just sort of skimmed through it and didnt click the link to the guidlines she provided, and therefore didnt realize that saying things in babblemail would be considered uncivil...
But that was my overlook so thanks for unblocking me despite it.AND RACER IF YOURE READING:
NO!!!!! I dont at all blame you, hold you responsible, or are angry with you for the blockage: I know you didnt make the rules and are just enforcing them.Plus when you wrote the "It doesnt mean I dont like you..." speach you also added "or sympathize with you" which I had not seen written in one of those speaches before (not that Ive seen many of them) but none the less... it was nice of you to say and really made me feel as if you understood my position.
So regardless if thats true or not it was still nice to write.As for you others who posted after my block... thank you and:
More to come later: Watching Simpsons and cant talk now. : )
Posted by gardenergirl on March 25, 2007, at 20:56:23
In reply to Thanks Bob (And to others) » Dr. Bob, posted by Jeff Smith on March 25, 2007, at 18:27:22
Posted by Racer on March 25, 2007, at 21:36:01
In reply to Thanks Bob (And to others) » Dr. Bob, posted by Jeff Smith on March 25, 2007, at 18:27:22
Posted by Jeff Smith on March 26, 2007, at 14:34:11
In reply to Jeff Smith, posted by one woman cine on March 22, 2007, at 7:57:14
> Jeff, if you are going post private babblemails - (and only excerpts!) - I wish you had also posted yours to which I was only responding to. I would like you consider how you might feel if I were to do that.<
Hi Cine,
The reason I posted only those particular excerpts from your babble mails to me was just because they were the specific quotes which illustrated that particular lesson I was discussing.
I felt that posting any excerpts from my babble mails to you was not necessary for any reason at that time: If you feel it was unfair (or insert your feeling here) for me to just post those excerpts and none of my own and youd like for anyone to see the our conversations in their entirety then I would be glad to send them to whoever would be interested.I dont know if it would be considered uncivil to send them by babble mail, but perhaps it would not be uncivil for someone to babblemail me their email address in order to send them there if they were interested in doing so. I dont know though.
You said in your above post: "I wish you had also posted YOURS TO WHICH I WAS ONLY RESPONDING TO." : )
I understand that you may wish I had also posted my bmails but the above (bold lettered) statement is not actually factual: See, you were not "only responding to" my babblemail. The actual fact is that you initiated the very first of your two babblemails to me and I was the one who was "only responding to" yours. : )
Allow me to prove it just so theres no confusion.
In this earlier post here http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20070309/msgs/742525.html
I had asked you "Why did you not reply to my last post to you or answer any of the questions in it, and instead come up with this question apparently in response to that quote from me to gazo? Are you for some reason angry or insulted or offended?".
I had asked you that since you had been publicly posting messages to me, but yet when I would then publicly reply to what you had said to/regarding me and had asked me you did not do the same in return (just meaning that you didnt publicly reply to any of the replies Id made to your questions/statements and you didnt answer any of the questions I had asked you) which was confusing to me.
Anyway so after I asked you those last questions publicly on 3/20 (that I just quoted above) you then replied to me by babblemail on 3/21 with what it was you had to say. (#1)
I then replied to you (by Bmail).... (#2)
You then replied back to me (by Bmail).... (#3)
I then replied to you again (by bmail) which was the last of our babblemail "conversations". (#4)
I just figured Id clear that up just simply for the sake of being accurate and factual since Im a "bit" obsessive about organization.
Now just to answer your request that "I would like you consider how you might feel if I were to do that."Im going to assume that you mean how would I feel if you had posted only excerpts of the private babblemails I sent to you in response to your initial and then follow up bmail to me, and yet you did not post your own babblemails you had sent to me(?).
Well I suppose it would depend on exactly what point you were attempting to make from it in order for me to determine how Id feel about you, but ultimately Id have no problem with only my excerpts being posted and you omitting yours.
I said nothing in my babblemails to you that I would ever object to having publicly posted here so if you had posted only certain excerpts from my bmails then I wouldve simply posted the entire sentence or paragraph from that excerpt (had it not been considered uncivil to do so) if I felt that particular excerpt was misleading and/or being used out of context.
Id really feel fine with it: In that situation Id say please feel free to post whatever and however youd want and Id reply accordingly.
Again, I just wanted to clear that up and to answer your request.I also hope nothing in this post is considered uncivil for any reason: If it is and Im blocked/banned then, unfortunately for me, I might have to accept the fact that I may not be able to conform to psycho babbles rules.
And if Im able to then Id like to reply to some other posts here later. Too tired now though. : )
Posted by one woman cine on March 27, 2007, at 8:05:52
In reply to To Cine, posted by Jeff Smith on March 26, 2007, at 14:34:11
Jeff, you are entitled to your own perception of what happened and how it happened. We don't need to agree.
Posted by one woman cine on March 27, 2007, at 8:09:25
In reply to To Cine, posted by Jeff Smith on March 26, 2007, at 14:34:11
>>>>>I dont know if it would be considered uncivil to send them by babble mail, but perhaps it would not be uncivil for someone to babblemail me their email address in order to send them there if they were interested in doing so. I dont know though.
& although it's probably already a done deal, I would prefer you did not share my babblemails with anyone else - it was private communication between 2 people. I'm not going to get into a "who said what" trying to rally people to my point of view. I just wished I saved all the babblemails. Live and learn.
Posted by Jeff Smith on March 27, 2007, at 11:22:23
In reply to Re: To Cine, posted by one woman cine on March 27, 2007, at 8:09:25
> >>>>>I dont know if it would be considered uncivil to send them by babble mail, but perhaps it would not be uncivil for someone to babblemail me their email address in order to send them there if they were interested in doing so. I dont know though.
>
> & although it's probably already a done deal, I would prefer you did not share my babblemails with anyone else - it was private communication between 2 people. I'm not going to get into a "who said what" trying to rally people to my point of view. I just wished I saved all the babblemails. Live and learn.
>
>
Hi Cine,-Well, no its not already a done deal.
-I realize it was private "communication" between two people. But Im offering to share it privately, not publicly. Im sorry if you would prefer that I didnt share them with anyone, but I simply cant understand why you'd feel that way. Could you please explain why so I could understand? Just out of curiosity.-I too am not going to get into "who said what": I know exactly who said exactly what and can prove it very easily. Just being factual is all.
-Are you accusing me of "trying to rally people to my point of view"? If so I find that offensive.
Im not trying to rally people to my point of view: Im simply offering to share the truthful facts with people and then they can decide for themselves how they feel about it. I dont see anything wrong or immoral about telling the truth and not hiding things and Im sure you'd agree with that. Or no?-I cant possibly understand why you'd wish you had saved all four of our babblemails:
But I did save them. : ) In their intirety. And in the exact order in which they began.
Im obsessively organized like that.-Live and learn exactly what? To save babblemails or learn to not say certain things? Im unclear as to what you mean.
Posted by Jeff Smith on March 27, 2007, at 11:31:57
In reply to Re: To Cine, posted by one woman cine on March 27, 2007, at 8:05:52
> Jeff, you are entitled to your own perception of what happened and how it happened. We don't need to agree.
Hi again Cine,
-Yes, I know Im "entitled" to my own perception of what happened and how it happened. I do, after all, come across as "entitled".
-No, we dont have to agree.
-So I say let the facts speak for themselves. Facts provided upon request as previously offered.
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