![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by wishingstar on February 11, 2007, at 17:05:57
My therapist and I spend a lot of time talking about "secondary gains" from depression. What makes it so hard for me to let go of? What am I getting from it (aside from feeling crappy)?
For me, I think the secondary gain is that I'm being nurtured and "taken care of" by my T when I'm in crisis, which is something I never received as a child. That doesnt mean that I'm creating it on purpose (definitely not), but I think recognizing that pattern does play a role in my recovery. Sometimes I find myself sabotaging myself and my recovery when it gets too scary, too uncomfortable, or starts moving too quickly. I find that I dont know who I am, what to do, how to live a normal life without depression anymore. And I do think these fears can work to keep me depressed, at least in a small way.
I'm hesitating to post this because if taken wrong, it can sound like "I dont want to get better! I like depression!" and that is absolutely NOT true. I'd give anything to feel better. I just think it's also important and interesting to look at all the roles it can play in our (or my) life.
I guess I'm posting this less for personal support and more just as a thing for others to think about. Do you think you have any secondary gains from your depression/bipolar/etc? If anyone does and wants to share, I'd be interested to hear it.. but of course you dont have to. It's just something I'm toying with in my mind right now.
Posted by Declan on February 11, 2007, at 18:59:39
In reply to secondary gains from depression, posted by wishingstar on February 11, 2007, at 17:05:57
I could say that not having to do anything was a secondary gain of my fatigue, but I won't.
It's a bit like the arguments in evolutional psychology, or is it ethology (too fatigued to remember).
What about helplessness? If you can be generally helpless and hopeless (speaking personally here) perhaps it's becoming like a little child again, in a way?
Posted by peddidle on February 11, 2007, at 19:28:17
In reply to secondary gains from depression, posted by wishingstar on February 11, 2007, at 17:05:57
My T has never brought this issue up in therapy, but it is something I have been thinking about recently. I was only diagnosed with dysthymia (along with a couple other things) within the last 2 or 3 years. My diagnosis before that was OCD, a diagnosis that I never really accepted. I have had 2 T's and one pdoc since that first T/pdoc, and none of them have said I have OCD. I sort of accepted the OCD diagnosis, but I was never truly convinced.
The dysthymia diagnosis makes sense to me. The problem is, now that is how I see myself. People are allowed to be pessimists, but why is there something wrong with me if I tend to be pessimistic? Sometimes when I find myself kind of down, I wonder if that is just who I am. Do other, "normal", people ever feel sad for no particular reason?
Now that I finally have this amazing T, will I lose her if I get "better"? Of course I will, there's no reason to go to a therapist if you are "cured" (although, my T believes that everyone could benefit from having a therapist). My parents are great, so I never lacked love and attention, but I can't help getting attached to this person who is so warm, funny, and accepting.
I think part of the reason we "hold on" to our depression, or any other diagnosis, is because we don't know anything different. Especially if you have been depressed for a long time, you don't know how to be any other way. Yes, that is what therapy is for, to teach you how to be happy again. But maybe this is just the way we are. Of course it isn't good to be in a chronic bad mood, or to feel like crying all the time, but not everyone is an eternal optimist either. Maybe we are afraid of losing the part of ourselves that makes us who we are.
That's just my two cents.
Posted by Dinah on February 11, 2007, at 23:59:34
In reply to secondary gains from depression, posted by wishingstar on February 11, 2007, at 17:05:57
Welllll...
I think my husband likes me better depressed. Or at least he likes me less when I'm not depressed.
If I were perfectly well, I might feel like I should leave therapy.
Depression seems to have a slightly dampening effect on anxiety, except for those times that they come together.
The only good thing I can say about anxiety is when my anxiety is directed, like when I'm having an upsurge of OCD, I tend to make very few mistakes and correct any mistakes I make. And sometimes I say if it weren't for anxiety I wouldn't have any energy at all... No, I can't see much secondary gain from anxiety.
But since my moods shift so, I've had plenty of times when I'm not depressed or anxious, and I really like those times, so I don't know...
Posted by cubic_me on February 12, 2007, at 10:30:50
In reply to secondary gains from depression, posted by wishingstar on February 11, 2007, at 17:05:57
> For me, I think the secondary gain is that I'm being nurtured and "taken care of" by my T when I'm in crisis, which is something I never received as a child.
I can really identify with this, I think it's why I find it so hard to get out of the cycle. Even if no-one is 'taking care' of me (because I don't tell anyone how I'm feeling), I can take care of myself, either by treating myself/taking it easy, or through SI and 'caring' for the wounds.
>
> I'm hesitating to post this because if taken wrong, it can sound like "I dont want to get better! I like depression!" and that is absolutely NOT true. I'd give anything to feel better. I just think it's also important and interesting to look at all the roles it can play in our (or my) life.I tend to thing that 'I want to want to get better', I think that's what I'm looking for in therapy. Ofcourse intellectually I don't want to be this way, but it doesn't always feel that way.
I think it's a very hard concept for people who haven't been depressed (or had any other mental health issue) to understand. Why would anyone sabbotage their improvement? It sounds mad, but when you've only known yourself as being depressed, it's scary to think you might not have it there. I sometimes feel depression is a comforting feeling, because it's better than feeling nothing (emptyness etc). I suppose it's a bit like giving up smoking if you've done it all your adult life - you know it's bad for you, you want to not smoke, but there's a draw there, both as a habit and as something comforting, and you don't know how you'll cope with it not being there any more.
Posted by canadagirl on February 13, 2007, at 16:31:33
In reply to secondary gains from depression, posted by wishingstar on February 11, 2007, at 17:05:57
Hello wishingstar, well I think that yes when we are depressed we might get some nurturing and taking care of but by far I think when we really are depressed we don't even see or appreciate it (and what I mean by appreciate it, is realize it in a way.)
So I think, the secondary gains are few and far between and certainly if we could just snap ourselves out of it we would.>>I find that I dont know who I am, what to do, how to live a normal life without depression anymore.<<
Living a normal life I think means taking life as it comes and working with the "normal" ups and downs of life. When we are strong enough to do that, then I think we just find healthier ways to cope. Where it becomes more living with the bouts of normal everyday sadness rather than depression. I don't know, just a thought.
Posted by DannaB on February 19, 2007, at 21:33:05
In reply to Re: secondary gains from depression » wishingstar, posted by canadagirl on February 13, 2007, at 16:31:33
Posted by DannaB on February 20, 2007, at 22:07:56
In reply to my therapist says... (nm), posted by DannaB on February 19, 2007, at 21:33:05
Oops, my last two messages came up blank (nm) somehow.
Posted by Dinah on February 21, 2007, at 10:16:07
In reply to Re: my therapist says..., posted by DannaB on February 20, 2007, at 22:07:56
I was interested in what your therapist had to say.
Sometimes those buttons can be darned annoying.
Posted by peddidle on February 21, 2007, at 20:25:51
In reply to my therapist says... (nm), posted by DannaB on February 19, 2007, at 21:33:05
Haha I thought you did that on purpose! Like, how therapy is protrayed on TV and in movies...
"Well, my shrink says..."
I have to admit, I thought it was witty. :)
Posted by DannaB on February 21, 2007, at 20:50:40
In reply to Re: my therapist says..., posted by peddidle on February 21, 2007, at 20:25:51
It's funny that it seemed like I was being witty when I just goofed on trying to post :)
My therapist says that I withdraw as a way of showing someone that I love them and seeking their love and approval. He says this because my mother is the type to show me love and concern when I'm down but then she sort of kicks me when I'm up (the moment I start to feel good). The secondary gain is that I receive my mother's attention and approval.
However, it is problematic in other areas. He's noticed a pattern that whenever I start dating someone I start feeling depressed and withdraw from activities I participated in when I was single. Of course, this pattern is SO ATTRACTIVE to guys (*sarcasm*). Rather than showing love and concern, they usually decide that I'm boring and they lose interest.
I'm dealing with such a situation right now. It seems like everyone wants to date someone who has a life that's fuller and more interesting than their own. :( :(
Posted by Dinah on February 21, 2007, at 21:48:44
In reply to Okay, I'll try again, posted by DannaB on February 21, 2007, at 20:50:40
That's a good insight to have about your patterns. And very understandable given your history.
It's similar to my feeling like my husband doesn't particularly like me when I'm happy.
I'm not sure that's universally true about potential mates. But perhaps it's true of the people you attract when you're feeling good? So that it's the change that's an issue? So that if you met someone when you were feeling depressed, they might disapprove of your feeling better...
Of course, I say that when I laugh that my husband and I both did a 180 degree temperament change after we met each other. So I probably know not of which I speak.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.