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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on October 6, 2006, at 2:51:05
This still confuses me. My T told me today that I wasn't doing certain things because I "can't" right now. Admittedly, I do waste a lot of energy berating myself for the things I "don't" do, but I still think of myself as being able to do these things, and just not doing them. In other words, "don't" or "won't" but not "can't."
Yes. I am very depressed again. I am spending large amounts of time lying on the sofa with -- well, the quilt died about the time my friend who made it died, so it's a throw blanket there now, but it's over my head. I'm not doing a lot of things that need to be done. And I'm suffering -- a lot -- over that. I know I'd feel at least a bit better if these things were done. I'm still not doing them.
So I feel stuck.
Which isn't actually the point I was trying to get some input on: how can I tell if I "can't" do something? How can I figure that out? Is it that I "won't" or just "don't" or really "can't?"
Would I be better off if I admitted that I "can't" do these things right now, and then stopped trying?
Posted by Dinah on October 6, 2006, at 8:56:12
In reply to Can't versus Won't versus Don't..., posted by Racer on October 6, 2006, at 2:51:05
I struggle with this myself. A lot. I always assume that if I once could, I can now if I just try hard enough. So clearly I must not be trying hard enough.
My therapist doesn't help much, alternating between telling me that I'm not lazy and telling me to just act like a grownup at work.
So sometimes I know in my heart that I'm trying as hard as I can, and I despise myself for not being able to do it anyway, and sometimes I assume I'm being lazy, and I despise myself for being lazy.
Hey.
Neither of those is very good. :(
But oddly, I don't think those things of others. I tend to think that they're doing their best given what's happening to them, and that given what's happening to them, they're succeeding well. I guess for others, I recognize external factors, while for myself I only recognize internal ones.
Posted by Racer on October 6, 2006, at 13:28:23
In reply to Re: Can't versus Won't versus Don't... » Racer, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2006, at 8:56:12
> I struggle with this myself. A lot. I always assume that if I once could, I can now if I just try hard enough. So clearly I must not be trying hard enough.
Yeah, that's about it. Only, some of the things I obsess over are not things I have ever been able to do. It's more of a "If it's possible to do them, I *must* be capable of doing them -- if only I Try Hard Enough..."
(Damn -- maybe the word I need to eliminate from my vocabulary is "Enough?" Seems to be a theme, huh?)
>
> But oddly, I don't think those things of others. I tend to think that they're doing their best given what's happening to them, and that given what's happening to them, they're succeeding well. I guess for others, I recognize external factors, while for myself I only recognize internal ones.Here's the part I would love some clarification on: I think of what's going on with me right now as being "internal factors" -- depression, despair, etc. (And some physical problems, which really are getting in the way of practical things, as well as adding to the mental pain.) And, because they're internal, I think of them as things I can overcome if I just try harder. (At least I avoided the S-word. And the E-word.) Can you explain whether that's part of what you consider external factors for others? Or is it part of the internal factors for you, too?
And Dinah? I know you don't judge others the way you judge yourself. I'm not suggesting by this that I think you're applying your rules to me, I'm only trying to learn to bash myself a bit less. And probably sticking my foot in it. (My mouth is a perfect size 6.5B. I know, lots of experience with it...)
Posted by Dinah on October 6, 2006, at 20:06:14
In reply to Can you clarify part of this? » Dinah, posted by Racer on October 6, 2006, at 13:28:23
No, I was considering depression, despair (and hormones) as external.
I just never really think of myself as depressed.
Posted by Racer on October 6, 2006, at 20:27:04
In reply to Re: Can you clarify part of this? » Racer, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2006, at 20:06:14
> No, I was considering depression, despair (and hormones) as external.
Hm... Wish you could teach me that one. I think of those things are being internal, and therefore My Fault. I think that's the part my T is trying to teach me, but I didn't get it. I'm not sure I can get it without help, though, because I can't see how they're external? Then again, I only need to know this when I'm depressed, so that might be the problem: when I need to know that depression isn't me, I'm too distorted by depression to learn it...
>
> I just never really think of myself as depressed.This one, unfortunately, I can agree with. I never think of myself as depressed, so much as lazy, and undisciplined, and shameful, and of bad character...
Guess that's why I have to try to learn that the depression is not internal, but an external factor...
Posted by Daisym on October 6, 2006, at 22:59:46
In reply to Thanks..., posted by Racer on October 6, 2006, at 20:27:04
Can we reframe this?
Perhaps it really doesn't matter if you "can" or "won't" -- perhaps it is simply a resource management issue. You only have a certain amount of energy available to you at any given time. We can agree that depression is a disease that saps energy (can't we?). Some days the disease is full blown and taking up huge amounts of energy. So we have to save the rest of the energy for things like breathing, and existing. Other days, it eases off and we can use the extra energy for things like getting dressed, or making dinner. And sometimes, the disease goes into remission -- and we have access to most of our energy.
It is frustrating to not be able to control the energy appetite of the disease. But we can't. I'm narcissistic enough to believe that I control lots of things, but even I know that the multitude of factors that effect body systems that are diseased (depressed) are unpredictable and erratic.
I think the answer is to order your priorities and try to not expend energy worrying about the things not at the top of the list - like breathing. Let it go - if only for today. Give yourself permission to put down the load for an hour, or 4 or even a whole day. That makes it a choice, a choice you can do.
Does this make any sense at all?
I think when we force ourselves to function at levels that deplete energy to the point of being bone dry, we get into trouble with suicidal ideation. At least for me, my biggest enemy at these time is being tired. I can't fight back without the energy.
Posted by Dinah on October 7, 2006, at 10:18:22
In reply to Re: Thanks..., posted by Daisym on October 6, 2006, at 22:59:46
> I think when we force ourselves to function at levels that deplete energy to the point of being bone dry, we get into trouble with suicidal ideation. At least for me, my biggest enemy at these time is being tired. I can't fight back without the energy.
Thanks, Daisy. I'm going to think about this some. I never do think of myself as depressed, but bone dry seems awfully familiar.
Posted by Phillipa on October 7, 2006, at 12:22:24
In reply to Re: Thanks... » Daisym, posted by Dinah on October 7, 2006, at 10:18:22
Racer believe it or not you sound just like me I want to be who I was even though I know I can't and this depresses me more. I know you didn't ask for my feed back but it just sounds so much like me. I keep forcing myself to do things and really want to be on the couch. Love Phillipa
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