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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mair on September 29, 2006, at 17:20:04
That's what she announced to me at the end of yesterday's session. It's difficult news to absorb because she's several years younger than me and in great shape, upbeat and very healthy looking, and I'm not accustomed to worrying about her health.
She sounded pretty positive although she doesn't yet know how serious her case is. At first they just thought she had one site and would treat it with a simple lumpectomy, but an MRI turned up a second mass in the same breast and she didn't yet have biopsy results for that. So when I see her again on Tuesday, she'll either tell me that she's going to miss the next week (for me, 2 sessions) while she has the lumpectomy, or she's going to tell me that her surgery will be more radical and that she'll be out a lot longer.
When she told me she had some bad news, I instantly blurted out "you're leaving," a periodic fear of mine ever since she got divorced a couple of years ago. That seemed like the worst thing she could tell me, but I think this is worse.
As I was leaving she said that she wanted to make sure we had time to process this before she had to miss any sessions. I can think of few things I'd less like to do than talk to her about this - maybe as a friend, but certainly not as a patient. Although I know it's really common, I actually know very few people who've had to fight this disease. On the one hand, that feels like good fortune; on the other hand it means that I mostly only know about the people who haven't survived. I'm not sure what I'm willing to discuss with her.
It's incredibly reassuring to venture back here after a long absence and see so many familiar names.
Mair
Posted by muffled on September 29, 2006, at 18:00:05
In reply to My T has breast cancer, posted by mair on September 29, 2006, at 17:20:04
Posted by sunnydays on September 29, 2006, at 18:24:14
In reply to My T has breast cancer, posted by mair on September 29, 2006, at 17:20:04
That's such a hard situation. I don't know how I would handle it. I got worried when my T mentioned in passing a history of cancer in his family. Good luck. I'll keep you in my thoughts.
sunnydays
Posted by Lindenblüte on September 29, 2006, at 18:49:35
In reply to Re: My T has breast cancer » mair, posted by sunnydays on September 29, 2006, at 18:24:14
Hi Mair,
I don't think I'm a familiar face, but I hope that you and T can have a good discussion about this event in your relationship and what it means to you.I'm so sorry. I hope she has a safe and speedy recovery...
-Li
Posted by mair on September 29, 2006, at 19:49:17
In reply to Re: My T has breast cancer, posted by Lindenblüte on September 29, 2006, at 18:49:35
Thanks Li
I don't know how I frame that discussion. I can mouth platitudes and maybe she'll be just fine with that. I mean I think it's pretty crummy that she has to discuss this with her patients at all. But she does have a lot of long term patients and I know she views the therapeutic relationship as a key ingredient. It seems to me it's a real downside for a therapist who conducts fairly long term therapy.
It's also made me recall snippets of conversations we've had before which now seem relevant. Work has always been a major stressor for me. When I've talked to her about how impossible it is for me to control my work load or take time off, she's frequently come back with some comment like "well what if you got cancer?" She told me yesterday that it was really important to her to keep working. But it seems to me that her health could now become the pink elephant in the room that is always on my mind but that I can't really acknowledge.
Mair
Posted by zenhussy on September 29, 2006, at 19:49:21
In reply to My T has breast cancer, posted by mair on September 29, 2006, at 17:20:04
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 29, 2006, at 20:01:07
In reply to Re: My T has breast cancer » Lindenblüte, posted by mair on September 29, 2006, at 19:49:17
Wow, Mair. This is hard. I actually convinced myself that my T had cancer last spring (it wasn't true) and I was beside myself. She's the one person in my life besides my son that I can't fathom losing.
I'm guessing you're going to need to discuss this with her at least some. I know it's tricky because it's personal for her, but I think you have to assume she has a support system separate from you and her other clients.
I'll be thinking about both of you. Keep us posted, okay?
Posted by Daisym on September 29, 2006, at 22:25:18
In reply to My T has breast cancer, posted by mair on September 29, 2006, at 17:20:04
Oh Mair, I'm so sorry. I know how much your therapist means to you. I hope all will be well and her treatment short and smooth.
My guess is she will want to talk about your fears and what not seeing her will mean to you. Maybe she and you can brainstorm ideas about how you stay in the loop of information while respecting her privacy. How can you show support and concern in this weird relationship that is usually so one-sided? Is it OK if you are mad at the universe about this?
I'm glad you came here for support. I wish you didn't need it. Love and hugs,
Daisy
Posted by annierose on September 30, 2006, at 7:51:24
In reply to My T has breast cancer, posted by mair on September 29, 2006, at 17:20:04
Life isn't fair.
And this is certainly a fear I have as a woman, and I have for all the woman I love in my life, including my T.
I believe in the power of prayer.
You will need to talk about this with her. It will certainly bring up lots to process. I was surprised she waited towards the end of the session to tell you. My T always tells me her vacation breaks at the beginning so I have the entire session to moan and groan, "NO NO, you can't leave me again!" But of course I say nothing.
Keep us posted on how she is doing and how you are coping. I'm sorry.
Posted by mair on September 30, 2006, at 9:55:22
In reply to Re: thinking of you and your T during this time (nm) » mair, posted by zenhussy on September 29, 2006, at 19:49:21
Hi Sweetie - how reassuring to see your name.
Posted by Dinah on September 30, 2006, at 10:11:39
In reply to My T has breast cancer, posted by mair on September 29, 2006, at 17:20:04
I'm so sorry Mair. I'll keep you and your therapist in my thoughts.
I know how hard it is to think positively when someone you care about is sick.
I also know how hard it is to handle therapist troubles, where you know that you probably need to talk about it, but it seems impossible to talk about it to *them* honestly. Maybe the best thing is to talk about that? That you understand that she wants you to talk about things as you've always talked about things, but that you hope *she* understands how difficult it is since it involves *her*, and boundaries, and all the difficult psychotherapy relationship issues.
If she'll be out for a long period of time, perhaps she'll have someone available for her clients to see, if only to keep them somewhat in the loop, and to talk about their feelings about her illness.
Posted by mair on September 30, 2006, at 10:15:18
In reply to Re: My T has breast cancer » mair, posted by Daisym on September 29, 2006, at 22:25:18
Thank you Daisy. My T has been pretty open with me and while she rarely offers up personal information, she's always been pretty willing to answer my personal questions. For my part, I try to limit my questions to the category of either totally harmless information or stuff about which I feel this huge need to know. I think the severity of her illness will fall into the category of something I'll feel like I need to know but don't want to ask about - in part because i don't want to make her feel uncomfortable and also because I may only want to hear good news. I've decided that the other scary thing is that unless this turns out to be very early stage - very easy to treat, I'm not going to be in a position to stop worrying and thinking about it for a very long time. The uncertainty drags on for years.
And I'm sure this will really change her; how could it not? Think how much we've all been changed by our illnesses - we're never quite the same again, even those of us who seemingly recover.
Thanks again
Mair
Posted by mair on September 30, 2006, at 10:19:22
In reply to Re: My T has breast cancer » mair, posted by annierose on September 30, 2006, at 7:51:24
Thanks - these are the rare occasions when I genuinely regret not being a person with a foundation of spiritual beliefs.
Mair
Posted by mair on September 30, 2006, at 10:30:39
In reply to Re: My T has breast cancer » mair, posted by Dinah on September 30, 2006, at 10:11:39
Hi Dinah - Of course it's difficult for me to talk about "our" relationship, although I've had a fair amount of practice. I've had such a hard time over the years sharing with her the details of any of my other relationships that she's pounced on any opportunity to talk about our relationship, because otherwise generic "relationship" issues just don't get discussed.
The other thing that runs through my mind some is the conversations we've had about what would happen if I couldn't continue to meet with her, either because something happened to her or because I felt that financially, I had no choice but to see someone approved by my insurer. I've got so much invested in this relationship and it's taken so long for us to get to the very imperfect place we are (almost 10 years I think); I just can't see ever starting over.
I hope you're ok. I think about you every single time I hear anything about the Big Easy.
Mair
Posted by Jost on September 30, 2006, at 22:53:21
In reply to Re: My T has breast cancer » annierose, posted by mair on September 30, 2006, at 10:19:22
Mair, that must be so upsetting, and dislocating.
I can't imagine getting that news from my T--or any other person I cared about. Sometimes I think about my T getting sick, and don't know how I would cope.
Maybe whatever she has will have been caught at an early stage, and the fall-out of it will be minimal, although disturbing and disequilibrating.
I'm sure she expects you to have difficulty accepting and not-accepting, and talking about, and really letting out whatever you feel. She certainly knows that you'll worry about her reactions, and what she's going through, and want, from consideration, to spare her your upsetness.
But maybe she wouldn't want that. Maybe honesty will bring you closer. You can certainly feel out how and what she can tolerate, given her possibly greater vulnerability.
I really hope things go well for both of your sakes,
Jost
Posted by frida on October 1, 2006, at 2:35:08
In reply to My T has breast cancer, posted by mair on September 29, 2006, at 17:20:04
Ohhh what a hard situation :-( I would be so worried if my T told me something like this. She mentioned once in passing about an almost heart attack that she had and I've worried so much ever since.
I hope it's caught in its early stages and your T can recover soon....but I can understand how upsetting this is for you...
I think honesty is the best...
I think I'd have trouble telling my feelings to my T..but somehow I'd tell her how worried I am, and just how much I love her. I think I would just cry and tell her I love her and want things to be Ok for her. I would probably ask her if I could give her a hug, though maybe in writing..What a difficult situation...I hope everything goes well for your T , and you can talk about it from your heart in your next session.
maybe if you find it too difficult you can bring a letter for her to read after..?
as a way to stay near...and let her know you care?Frida
> That's what she announced to me at the end of yesterday's session. It's difficult news to absorb because she's several years younger than me and in great shape, upbeat and very healthy looking, and I'm not accustomed to worrying about her health.
>
> She sounded pretty positive although she doesn't yet know how serious her case is. At first they just thought she had one site and would treat it with a simple lumpectomy, but an MRI turned up a second mass in the same breast and she didn't yet have biopsy results for that. So when I see her again on Tuesday, she'll either tell me that she's going to miss the next week (for me, 2 sessions) while she has the lumpectomy, or she's going to tell me that her surgery will be more radical and that she'll be out a lot longer.
>
> When she told me she had some bad news, I instantly blurted out "you're leaving," a periodic fear of mine ever since she got divorced a couple of years ago. That seemed like the worst thing she could tell me, but I think this is worse.
>
> As I was leaving she said that she wanted to make sure we had time to process this before she had to miss any sessions. I can think of few things I'd less like to do than talk to her about this - maybe as a friend, but certainly not as a patient. Although I know it's really common, I actually know very few people who've had to fight this disease. On the one hand, that feels like good fortune; on the other hand it means that I mostly only know about the people who haven't survived. I'm not sure what I'm willing to discuss with her.
>
> It's incredibly reassuring to venture back here after a long absence and see so many familiar names.
>
> Mair
>
Posted by Dinah on October 3, 2006, at 16:17:34
In reply to My T has breast cancer, posted by mair on September 29, 2006, at 17:20:04
Well, FWIW, my therapist and I talked about this today. He said (with an obvious eye to the fact that it could come up between us) that if she invited discussion of the topic, that she was prepared for what the discussion may entail. And that if it were him, he'd want me to be honest about my feelings.
After some wrangling, he said that it wouldn't be uncaring or improper to admit that it's difficult to discuss the situation, that ordinarily you'd discuss your less positive feelings about a loved one having cancer with your therapist, but that in this case it's hard to do that, and that you care about her as a person and are concerned about her wellbeing, but that you're also afraid of losing her, or that she won't be available as a therapist during treatment. He said that your fears won't burden her, because they're different from her own fears.
I'm not quite sure what he meant by that last part.
He also said that if it happened to him, he'd want me to talk about it lots here on Babble. I told him that our reaction was sort of horrified and fearful, and I wasn't sure that was as positive as might be called for. He said that was because we understood, really understood, in a way another therapist might not understand. I'm trying to figure out what I think about that.
He also sends his best wishes to you and your therapist.
So, if that helps, that's what another therapist thinks about what's appropriate.
Although I told him that my reaction wouldn't be to throw myself around his ankles and ask if he would still be able to be my therapist, it would be to throw myself around his ankles and insist that he *had* to still be able to be my therapist. And that even though I care about him, I'd exhibit a lot of fear about me. And he said that's the reaction he'd expect from a long time therapy client, and it wouldn't bother him at all. Still...
Posted by TherapyGirl on October 3, 2006, at 17:42:10
In reply to Re: My T has breast cancer » mair, posted by Dinah on October 3, 2006, at 16:17:34
Thank you so much for sharing this conversation, Dinah. You managed to fully encapsulate what so many of us are feeling about this. I don't know how hard this conversation was for you to have with your T, but what a good job you did.
I'm now going to think about doing this with my T.
MAIR -- I'm still thinking of you and your T, as well.
Posted by mair on October 4, 2006, at 22:24:12
In reply to Re: My T has breast cancer » mair, posted by Dinah on October 3, 2006, at 16:17:34
Gee Dinah, I wish I'd had you in the room with me when i met with my T again yesterday.
I think your T is right about the value of the Babbles in this instance. And having everyone be horrified was helpful, because it did sort of validate my horror. Beyond that, it gave me an outlet. My T has been working with me alot lately about sharing my emotional reactions. But my emotional reaction to her news fell into a different category and while there are some things about her illness that I can see myself discussing, there are others that I cannot. And after posting about this a few times, I realized that I was getting way ahead of myself in terms of my fears (I had pretty much already killed her off). So by the time of my session yesterday, I had calmed down considerably.
My session yesterday was strange - we really didn't talk about much other than her illness, but we sort of jumped all over the place (she was doing more jumping than me) and really I don't have this sense that I talked much at all. She took the edge right off by telling me that the biopsy of the second mass had turned up negative, so she was still on schedule just to have a lumpectomy (tomorrow actually), and her surgeon felt very positive about things. I was able to talk to her about one of my fears - namely that hanging around a bunch of depressed patients was going to make it more difficult for her to maintain the positive outlook that I think is important for cancer patients. But some of my other fears, really just seemed premature and I didn't feel that I wanted, or needed to bring them up yet.
I left there thinking that as much as she knew she should help her patients process her illness, she was still doing alot of processing herself, which is certainly understandable, and is really fine with me.
There is one issue which was just touched on that I really want to come back to when she starts up again - there seems to be this opinion among Ts that the patient shouldn't be worried about the T. This came up in the context of her decision about what to tell her patients and when to tell them.(I'm shortcutting here alot) I see nothing wrong with that - we invest so much in this relationship - if she wants me to reach the level of intimacy where I'm much more comfortable reaching out to her, then she can't totally insulate me from what may be going on with her.
Anyway, a topic for another day.
Now I just have to keep my fingers crossed for another 8 days before i'll find out how things go tomorrow. If the news is good, and the cancer is contained, I wish she'd just get that word out quickly. I hate all of the wondering.
Mair
Posted by Dinah on October 4, 2006, at 23:43:04
In reply to Re: My T has breast cancer » Dinah, posted by mair on October 4, 2006, at 22:24:12
I'm so glad the biopsy on the second lump was negative! Whew!
It was a heck of a lot easier for me of course. Not only because we were talking prospectively rather than about something that was currently happening, but we've been discussing ad nauseum a lesser version of this.
I *think* he overestimates how well he can deal with things. After all, this is the same man who told me "I just can't deal with you right now." He keeps telling me that has nothing to do with me, but has to do with his state of mind at that moment and that he was able to deal with me later, but still... Perhaps that was something that was better kept to himself, since it still affects my interactions with him.
At any rate, I'm certain it was because he wasn't prepared for me at the moment (a phone call, not a session) and that if he asked me for my reactions to something within a session, he would in fact be prepared to hear it.
My therapist and I have argued many times over whether clients should be concerned about therapists, and I think that I've finally convinced him that regardless of theory it is unrealistic to expect that. Well, largely convinced him. He still reflexively spouts it.
I really hope that all goes well tomorrow, and it really would be good of them to set up an arrangement for someone to call those concerned (including long term clients) to let them know. But I don't suppose they generally do.
There's probably every reason to be positive though. They seem to have caught it early, and they'll be watching her carefully from here on out, I'm sure.
This is the end of the thread.
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