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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by James K on August 20, 2006, at 17:38:35
I've got to talk to somebody. I'm not asking for an investment from any of ya'll. I just gotta.
I've been posting here for around 8 months. Some posts lately have reminded me of how I was when I came here. I was psychologicaly messed up right then, but intellectually I was way ahead of now. I was in a thread elsewhere a few days ago where I was following and refuting a complicated logic stream, and it felt good to use that. I'm acting on a base kind of animal instinct these days. (and the drinking and sitting and staring that goes with depression).
My partner as far as I remember threatened to have me locked up again two nights ago. I'm depressed, so not violent. Dang.
I don't want to be on Meds, and I don't want to be in treatment. Wants. Tomorrow is a Monday. If I don't make some small positive steps, I need to be aware that I didn't.
This is an attempt to impose some order into the picture by saying and perhaps organizing an overiding thought process to the eat, drink, pee, move to this room, kind of program I'm running right now. .
Dinah said some things about radical acceptance and perception of authority that I need to remember again and apply before I erase this file.
thanks for being here.
James K
Posted by Racer on August 20, 2006, at 20:25:13
In reply to can I just ramble for a while?, posted by James K on August 20, 2006, at 17:38:35
James, this is asked just out of curiosity, out of a desire to understand what's going on for you. If you don't want to answer, or can't answer, that's your absolute right -- no pressure, right? Still, I hope you won't hold my asking against me...
Do you want to stop drinking? To improve your condition (I don't know how else to put it -- your life, your mood, your disorder, whatever you'd like to call it. Your general circumstances, I guess)? Do you know what's stopping you?
Mind you -- I do know that some bad things we do are awfully hard to stop. After all, I'm the forty-mumble year old anorexic, right? I'm just curious about what holds you back. Maybe to try to help me figure out what keeps me from giving up my disordered eating...
Good luck.
Posted by finelinebob on August 20, 2006, at 22:52:06
In reply to can I just ramble for a while?, posted by James K on August 20, 2006, at 17:38:35
[sorry ... can't pass up a Zep reference....]
Yep, drinking goes with depression. Forget the initial euphoria or reduction in inhibitions (well, that last one might help keep on ramblin'), but alcohol is a depressant.
But keep rambling. Maybe nobody has anything to say that you find meaningful. Then again, maybe you'll unfold the issues that got you to where you are now, and you'll see a way out on your own.
Worked for me just recently. I highly recommend it.
Posted by James K on August 21, 2006, at 1:08:30
In reply to Re: can I just ramble for a while? » James K, posted by Racer on August 20, 2006, at 20:25:13
Hey Racer. I'm glad you ask.
I've been thinking about the what's and the why's lately. It is depression and alcoholism. Earlier today I was talking about maybe one of my old jobs, and the fact that I could have been a lawyer came to mind, and then it was "could have been" why not could be?
Because I'm scared. of things that might happen 6 months or 2 years from now. Of the failures I can predict.
I had great things (like every child) placed in front of me. Here's where the radical acceptance ideas come into play. (or Dinah's comments about parents or something).
I don't know. All I know is that I felt okay when I got drunk. Okay. I made a decision to pursue that line of life.
New line of thought.
My most recent psychiatrist from the clinic I was most recently in was in the local paper this week. I don't know. I'm going to keep typing. I apologize for the length and disjointed nature of this. I want to say something honest.
Everything I did was something wrong or failed I felt so low. So I escape by not feeling. Then I escape by going so low on purpose that no one can accuse me or destroy me.
Later, James
Posted by James K on August 21, 2006, at 1:15:14
In reply to Ramble on! » James K, posted by finelinebob on August 20, 2006, at 22:52:06
Now I smell the rain, and with it pain. and it's headed my way. sometimes I get so tired.
That's Led Zeppelin, not me, and strangely, just thinking about that song makes me smile and feel a little better. I love that song. I'm fluctuating wildly. Ramble on. thanks bob.
James k
Posted by James K on August 21, 2006, at 1:37:26
In reply to Re: Ramble on! » finelinebob, posted by James K on August 21, 2006, at 1:15:14
I don't know why I feel the need to apologize for posting, but I do. Still a little disjointed, but bear with me. Listening to music now.
My previous shrink I mentioned above, In the place, early, he had me pegged as maybe a time-bomb type guy. like building to something really bad. (I'm talking about the really negative, violent aspect of my problem). Later (a few days later) (I only got a few weeks with this brilliant world class type guy). He modified me to a guy who might He said " If godzilla walked in the room, you would take him on so nobody else would have to" as a protecter type guy role. (I symbolically kind of did this while I was there. He must of got a report)
He was right on both counts. But drink withdrawal and anxiety kept me from being very coherent verbally or mentally then or now.
I wonder if That drawing of negativity on myself against my hatred of conflict reflects a Middle child kind of thing. And a hastening of the inevitable.
If I caused it and did it on purpose, I set the terms and can predict the outcome and am in total control of whatever happens.
I'll give it a rest now.
James k
Posted by Racer on August 21, 2006, at 3:50:39
In reply to Re: can I just ramble for a while? » Racer, posted by James K on August 21, 2006, at 1:08:30
>
> Because I'm scared. of things that might happen 6 months or 2 years from now. Of the failures I can predict.James, it takes a lot of guts to admit to that sort of fear. It's something I can relate to, and empathize with -- and I think it's still worth trying. I live in fear -- which is contributing to me not being able to sleep tonight, by the way -- and it ain't pretty countryside.
But here's the choice I saw in front of me: I lived in fear, and I could either confine my life inside tighter and tighter boundaries because of it, so I wouldn't have to face up to anything frightening -- or I could choose some things that I could face down. Trust me -- my life is still bounded by fear, and I certainly haven't reached out very far, and half the people here can tell you that I'm roiling up inside over some of these choices, but this is the only life I have. If I didn't choose to fight some of it, I'd have no one else to blame for my own misery.
Sure, I have recurrent major depression -- but that doesn't mean I can't try. And I did have to start trying, James, because my life just got so danged boring! (Of course, meds help, too...)
>
> I don't know. All I know is that I felt okay when I got drunk. Okay. I made a decision to pursue that line of life.
>Who told you you weren't OK? Did they say it openly, or did you read it between the lines? In my case, it was mostly implicit, although I did hear about my weight, and being lazy and selfish. I heard at school that I was weird, and could never seem to fit in. I was told in a lot of ways that I wasn't good enough, that I wasn't OK, that something was wrong with me.
And, Calvinist background, I was told that it was my fault, too.
Sometimes that gets me into these cycles where I set myself up, to punish myself, by showing how awful I am, etc. I can kinda feel it happening when it does, but I can't always stop it in time. It's always part of the spiralling down, and it makes me feel stuffed full of self-loathing. (And I'm suffering insomnia, so I'm too tired to make that part clear...)
>
> Everything I did was something wrong or failed I felt so low. So I escape by not feeling. Then I escape by going so low on purpose that no one can accuse me or destroy me.And maybe so that you won't have to make an effort? If it's all a forgone conclusion? Forgive me, James -- I'm not trying to be confrontational in an accusatory sense: I'm only hoping that I can challenge you a little, and all of this is based on what I experience myself. If I do the sort of thing I think you're describing, it's a way of escaping from ever having to make any real effort. That way, you see -- well, if I never try, I can never fail.
Peace, James. And I hope you find what you need.
>
> Later, James
Posted by Jost on August 21, 2006, at 10:40:50
In reply to Re: can I just ramble for a while? » Racer, posted by James K on August 21, 2006, at 1:08:30
> Hey Racer. I'm glad you ask.
>
> I've been thinking about the what's and the why's lately. It is depression and alcoholism. Earlier today I was talking about maybe one of my old jobs, and the fact that I could have been a lawyer came to mind, and then it was "could have been" why not could be?
>
> Because I'm scared. of things that might happen 6 months or 2 years from now. Of the failures I can predict.
>
>
Exactly! But you could still do it. One step at a time. Get some LSAT text books--either the old tests, or the books in the bookstores with sample tests.Start doing them. On your free time-- when you're watching tv, sitting around listening to music, etc.
I did that. it can get to be fun. After a while, you start focussing on whatever you have most problems with and most fun with.
Then you start "taking" them, on your own, timing yourself, seeing how you do.
Then you figure out if you need one of those courses to prep.
Then you take the actual LSAT. They give it at frequent intervals, all year.
This can take two months, three months, six months, whatever. A year or year and a half later-- you can be in law school. Doesn't matter that much where you go, as long as you go to a decent school. Even a night school arrangement.
I took the LSAT and got into a law school. Unf. (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) I didn't go, but it was pretty easy to get in-- by the method I just outlined.
I just did a bunch of tests for a while, and took the LSAT, and voila.
Buy the book. What do you have to lose?
[Or, to be sure, any other field you're more interested in.... ]
I'll give you whatever tips I can, and I"m sure others here will too-- and finelinebob can fill you in on how to fail and get through the whole process anyway.
Jost
Posted by curtm on August 21, 2006, at 11:33:41
In reply to can I just ramble for a while?, posted by James K on August 20, 2006, at 17:38:35
I bet you thought I was talking to you. No. I was talking to me. I feel similar to what you describe. I sit, I get up, I pace, I sit, I get up, I pace, I sit, I get up, I pace. I leave my drink in the other room so that I will have somewhere to go and something to do besides wonder what to do. I have no desire. I am bored. T says I need to do something for myself. He suggests something. I make an excuse why I can't. He suggests something. I make an excuse why I can't. He suggests something. I make an excuse why I can't. If I continue this, I will surely become more depressed. Not sure where I am going with this or what I am going to do about it either.
BTW, if you didn't ramble I may never have had anything to ramble about. After all, what for? Why? Thank you James.
Curt
Posted by finelinebob on August 21, 2006, at 21:31:29
In reply to Re: can I just ramble for a while?, posted by Jost on August 21, 2006, at 10:40:50
> I'll give you whatever tips I can, and I"m sure others here will too-- and finelinebob can fill you in on how to fail and get through the whole process anyway.
Bah! Not being a lawyer demonstrates James' good sense and will to survive.
"First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers" -- Henry VI (part 2), Act IV Scene II. First performed around 1595 or so. 400+ years later, people still feel the same.
Avoidance behaviors regarding this are just showing your good sense. If you want to be rich, think up the next stupid thing to do on the web and do it. Man, I wish I would have thought up the Hampsterdance first....
Posted by jost on August 21, 2006, at 23:09:21
In reply to Re: can I just ramble for a while?, posted by finelinebob on August 21, 2006, at 21:31:29
James, finelinebob may not want to be a lawyer.
However, there are many lawyers, who did want to be lawyers.
Thus not all people do not want to be lawyers, contrary to finelinebob.
Moreover, these lawyers seem to be doing rather well economically; hence I infer that there are also many people who find the activity of lawyers to be valuable, even if finelinebob is not one of them.
Therefore, I recommend that you consult your own desire (or lack of it) to be a lawyer, rather than anything else.
Also, I will I suppose have to read Henry 6 to find out what, if any reason, there is to suppose that just because Shakespear had that line in one of his plays, he endorsed the sentiment.
There are many lines in Shakespeare that do not represent his point of view (or any point of view that can arguably be attributed to him).
Jost
Posted by finelinebob on August 21, 2006, at 23:36:38
In reply to Re: can I just ramble for a while? » finelinebob, posted by jost on August 21, 2006, at 23:09:21
I stand corrected.
I'll avoid poking fun a potential lawyers in the future.
Posted by llrrrpp on August 22, 2006, at 8:55:25
In reply to One more post, posted by James K on August 21, 2006, at 1:37:26
> I wonder if That drawing of negativity on myself against my hatred of conflict reflects a Middle child kind of thing. And a hastening of the inevitable.
> If I caused it and did it on purpose, I set the terms and can predict the outcome and am in total control of whatever happens.
>
> I'll give it a rest now.
>
> James kI'm really interested by this middle child thing. I've never heard that before, but it really makes sense to me (a middle child). Plenty of conflict in my family, and ll felt she would absorb it, and make it go away. But actually, just ended up hating myself and withdrawing even more from the conflicts.
these thoughts about causing it and doing it on purpose etc... well, that leaves no room for the free will of other people, or the chaos that is intrinsic to our universe. It's an illusion, and this illusion can be very damaging to your psyche. Can you talk with a T about this?
thanks for posting. this is really interesting stuff. I'm sorry you're feeling so low, but can I say thank you for helping me understand a tiny piece of myself for the first time?
-ll
Posted by antigua on August 22, 2006, at 11:11:55
In reply to Re: One more post » James K, posted by llrrrpp on August 22, 2006, at 8:55:25
I'd like to explore this more, too, being a middle child. So eager to please and avoid conflict.
antigua
Posted by Jost on August 22, 2006, at 12:08:05
In reply to Re: can I just ramble for a while? » jost, posted by finelinebob on August 21, 2006, at 23:36:38
Don't be silly, finelinebob. You can make jokes about lawyers.
My concern was with discouraging James K, if he does have any desire even to think about thinking that he might want to do something like that.
So-- there are three people in a lifeboat, surrounded by sharks. Two regular people and a lawyer. The lifeboat can only hold two people. They're thinking of drawing straws as to who should go. But the lawyer leaps off.
The two regular people are overwhelmed with gratitude for the lawyer's sacrifice. But to their amazement, they see the sharks suddenly swim off en masse.
They ask the lawyer, how did that happen!!??? The lawyer responds, oh that was just professional courtesy.
(Okay, that makes lawyers look good, kinda, but it is a joke.)
Jost
Posted by James K on August 22, 2006, at 13:34:26
In reply to Re: can I just ramble for a while? » finelinebob, posted by Jost on August 22, 2006, at 12:08:05
I've seen the good and bad of the profession. I worked as a clerk in one bigger law firms in the world for 5 years when I was a young man.
I don't think I would like to argue cases in court. The research and brief writing is more my alley. I've never minded being second in command.
I looked up the LSAT's. I think taking the test is a good long/short term goal for me. If I did as well as I think I could, it would be the kind of boost that I haven't had for a long while. It would also help my confidence to go and get my job back. Working for lawyers also has it's appeal.
I was reading "The Iron Dragon's Daughter" last night. (staying sober). A dark fantasy book. A quote struck me. "We are all of us living stories that on some deep level give us satisfaction. If we are unhappy with our stories, that is not enough to free us from them. We must find other stories that flow naturally from those we have been living."
The quote struck me as relevant to my feelings of the week.
the next line in the book was "So, you're saying... that I'm living a story in which I don't get financial aid? Is that it?" I'm sure there is some deeper meaning for me there as well.
James K
Posted by James K on August 22, 2006, at 13:53:41
In reply to Re: One more post » James K, posted by llrrrpp on August 22, 2006, at 8:55:25
^Plenty of conflict in my family, and ll felt she would absorb it, and make it go away. But actually, just ended up hating myself and withdrawing even more from the conflicts.
~~~Yeah, that is what I was struggling to understand when I was writing. I've always avoided family dynamics study, because if you get too far in, it starts to seem like astrology or something. I was always mediating between my little sister and big sister. I was fiercly protective of my little sister. As the male, I could physically end a physical fight, but not emotional pain. Throw in Parents and a black sheep, and who nows.
>
> these thoughts about causing it and doing it on purpose etc... well, that leaves no room for the free will of other people, or the chaos that is intrinsic to our universe. It's an illusion, and this illusion can be very damaging to your psyche. Can you talk with a T about this?
>
~~~Very interesting. Whenever I get questionnaire type psych testing they ask about magical thinking or if I believe I can do things others can't do. I always said no. I've come to realize that I believe I have the power to hurt people deeply, cause them to fight by saying the one thing they can't let go.The difference between recognizing a skill, and believing in a "power" is where psychological problems creep in. I need therapy real bad. (smile)
> thanks for posting. this is really interesting stuff. I'm sorry you're feeling so low, but can I say thank you for helping me understand a tiny piece of myself for the first time?
~~~Same here. You helped me understand my own idea.james
Posted by Racer on August 22, 2006, at 18:39:55
In reply to Lawyers and careers » Jost, posted by James K on August 22, 2006, at 13:34:26
> I've seen the good and bad of the profession. I worked as a clerk in one bigger law firms in the world for 5 years when I was a young man.
>
>I used to work for attorneys, too, in my younger days. At one of the largest firms in the country at that time. (They're almost certainly not that high on the list now, though, thanks to some mergers between other big firms.) I worked largely with the international offices, which was an eye opener.
Anyway, that was mostly to say, "Yo, Jamesie! You wanna be a lawyer, go be a lawyer."
Most of the lawyers I've known are smart, interesting, educated people who know the best lawyer jokes, and laugh at them the loudest. Go take your place with them. You *can* do it, if you choose to.
Posted by llrrrpp on August 22, 2006, at 23:34:19
In reply to Middle child » llrrrpp, posted by James K on August 22, 2006, at 13:53:41
Thanks James,
I hope you're doing okay today. you wrote that you need therapy real bad. are you seeing a T? i think it's helped me a lot, and I used to have SO much scorn for the mental health folks.I actually told the T at my college clinic that the only reason they give us therapy is to keep their students off the front pages of the paper. Bad for business, you know?
Well, reformed llrrrpp hangs her head in shame for thinking herself so enlightened that she could snap out of this sh*t all on her own. that's another illusion, one that I may have to work on for the rest of my life.
-ll
This is the end of the thread.
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