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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fairywings on August 3, 2006, at 14:37:37
Hi everyone,
It's been quite a long time since I've posted. I hope everyone is doing well. My last post I said I was in a lot of pain, well I fractured my spine!
Can anyone help me see through my anger about this.....I cancelled all of July appts. (with notice). when I cancelled, I left 2 messages for him with the receptionists that I fractured my spine. When I went back this week he seemed cool. He said you cancelled a bunch of appts., what was that all about? I said I fractured my spine, didn't you get my messages? He said no, I just thought you were mad at me about something, so you cancelled. I said I left 2 messages for you and was told you'd get them.
I was mad about that, mad that he didn't bother to find out why I'd cancelled, and mad because he assumed I cancelled because I was mad at him about something (and throwing a temper tantrum or something). I also found out he doesn't p/u his own voice mail - which I figured, and he doesn't ever phone patients.
I felt like everything has been a sham. I've seen him for a year, and it seemed like all he cared about was his bottom line, like he doesn't really have genuine concern for me. We spent 20 min. of the appt. going back and forth about it - which was a huge waste of my time. I was so hurt and upset I didn't sleep, and I've been upset since Tuesday. There were other things, but this is the part I need help with. I just can't get beyond the anger and hurt. I know if I go back my attitude will suck, and I only have 4 more appts. where my insurance will help, then I'd have to pay the full fee.
I've written him a letter, but wondered if anyone had any sage advice before I send it.
Missed you all, I have a lot of catching up to do.
fwbtw, I still can't sit very long, so I'm not on the computer much, but I do appreciate any advice you might have.
Posted by canadagirl on August 3, 2006, at 16:18:40
In reply to Been away sick....need some advice, posted by fairywings on August 3, 2006, at 14:37:37
Hi Fairywings (nice name), writing to you for the first time here; yes you have every right to be upset. He prejudged the situation. An apology that he didn't get your messages would have been nice. That is pretty unprofessional. You are the client, you should expect professional "service" from the receptionist, or anyone else in his office.
If I were writing, I would take the stance that in a professional office, you would have expected he get the messages. And if he didn't, he needs to take it up with his office staff and/or revisit his office procedures so that this doesn't happen again. Try to put it right back onto him. His staff dropped the ball. It's not your fault! You tried to notify him. Despite the hurt you feel, I'd go at it from this angle because, it sounds professional. (But I'm pretty litigious anyway LOL so you might be a lot "kinder" than I'd be. ) Maybe discuss the hurt in person when you see him.
Posted by muffled on August 3, 2006, at 23:06:45
In reply to Been away sick....need some advice, posted by fairywings on August 3, 2006, at 14:37:37
Oh FW so sorry :-(
Is your back healing ok?
Your T has very strong boundaries it would seem. Has he helped you at all? I get people mixed up if you've already posted I'm sorry.
Sometimes strong boundaries is a good thing.
One thing is it would help with getting overly attached to our T's and depending on them too much. Cuz we DO pay them for a service. As long as the boundaries are clear from the start it makes things much easier.
Its very hard to bang up against them.
I dunno what you have written to him?
Alls I can say is if he has been helpful to you then thats good. If he has not, then time to look for someone else.
Humans always ultimately fail us at one time or another.
Its the human condition.
Its harder with T's cuz the relationship is so weird and uneven.
I'm sorry you've been hurt.
I'm sorry your in pain.
You are a good person FW.
I guess I'm not too helpful.
I feel for you.
Please take care. I had been wondering.
Thanks for posting.
Muffled
Posted by Racer on August 4, 2006, at 1:23:32
In reply to Been away sick....need some advice, posted by fairywings on August 3, 2006, at 14:37:37
I'm so sorry about your spine! That's terrible, and I hope you're mending well. (Have you had a bone scan? That's a selfish question -- I'm afraid of breaking something, and hope there'll be some reassurance in your answer. I hope you won't hold that against me.)
As for your T, if you've felt all along that he has no real concern for you, and is only concerned with his own profit -- how Ferengi of him -- then I'd suggest considering looking for a new T. You said there are only a few more sessions on your insurance? Is this guy worth paying for out of pocket? Have you benefitted from therapy with him? If you haven't benefitted in a year, then I think it might be worth looking around. I've been working with my T for just barely over a year -- 14 months -- and I know that I've benefitted. I think a lot of people here on the board know that I've benefitted.
And one reason that I think I've benefitted is that I know she's in the room with me during our sessions, you know? I know that she sees ME during our sessions. And I feel safe and good during those sessions. If I didn't feel that way, I don't know that I'd be there. I think I'd have looked around some more. It really is worth it, though, to look around until you feel the right fit. I know how hard it is, especially while you're in crisis, but it is possible, and it does help.
Good luck, and good healing.
Posted by canadagirl on August 4, 2006, at 6:35:06
In reply to Been away sick....need some advice, posted by fairywings on August 3, 2006, at 14:37:37
Yes of course....I'm so sorry too, to hear about your spine. My goodness, how awful for you!
(your situation got me going on another rant and I didn't even mention your spine!)
Posted by fairywings on August 4, 2006, at 12:27:54
In reply to Re: Been away sick....need some advice » fairywings, posted by Racer on August 4, 2006, at 1:23:32
Thx canadagirl, I don't think he'd apologize. He probably feels he was sticking to his policies, and sees no error. But as far as the professionalism....I'm sure he'd see fault with the stafff because they could damage his business, and that would be bad! Two of the women, for some unknown reason, sometimes have seemed "cocky". Thx for your concern! ; )
Muffy,
(((hugs))) I don't get the boundary thing. Having a policy of not calling is a firm boundary? I don't know what his boundaries or policies are. If I go back I guess that will have to be discussed.
I'm not dependent on him, but I can see where it would get to be a problem for some, because yes he is very kind. My problem was that I wanted to feel that he cared and was concerned for me. But I didn't feel he was concerned because when I went back he didn't ask if I was okay or anything, he asked why I cancelled. He just assumed I cancelled bec. I was mad about something. I could've fallen off the face of the earth for all he knew, and that hurt my feelings. When he found out why I wasn't there he was very nice....or tried to be, but I was too pissed off by then.fw
Posted by fairywings on August 4, 2006, at 12:47:44
In reply to Re: Been away sick....need some advice » fairywings, posted by Racer on August 4, 2006, at 1:23:32
Hi Racer,
I had x-rays, no bone scan, but they did my whole spine, so I guess I'm okay other than the fracture. I think I did it falling off my bike when I hit a patch of mud. I really wiped out.
I didnt' mind your question in the least. I've thought about a bone scan bec. I don't have a big calcium intake.I have felt he was concerned, he's been very kind, but when I cancelled he just assumed I was mad, and wasn't concerned that something might be wrong, or I was sick, or there were problems, and that really hurt my feelings. When I'm in an appt. he does show concern, and I know I've benefitted from talking with him, but I worry I won't be able to get over feeling so hurt....which comes out as anger to anyone on the other side of it, and I don't know how to stop doing that. (guess that's why I'm in therapy)
I do worry that if something big would happen he wouldn't be there for me if he was booked. That concerns me. I'm not dependent, but I'd like to know in an emergency he'd be there. On the other hand, I know he has a life, and he's entitled to that.
Does your T call if you need her? I wonder how many T's have policies that they don't call. I found that kind of odd.The other thing is I'm not willing to put my relationship with my pdoc in jeopardy over anyone or anything! I'm afraid if I have conflict with someone else in the office he might ask me to find help elsewhere. I don't think he would, but I don't want that to happen.
Thanks for your help and concern Racer, I'm glad you've benefitted so much from your work wtih your T! ; ) I know how you've struggled, and have been doing things the past year that you hadn't been doing. Is that all from therapy, or is it meds too?
fw
Posted by Poet on August 4, 2006, at 13:08:56
In reply to Been away sick....need some advice, posted by fairywings on August 3, 2006, at 14:37:37
Hi Fairywings,
Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. You have a pain in your back and now your T is being a pain in the butt. The former hopefully will heal soon. The later I'm not so sure about.
I understand your T doesn't listen to his own messages, but I would think he would require whoever does listen to them to be detailed. In other words, not *Fairywings cancelled,* but *Fairywings has a serious back injury and cancelled because of it.*
Geez, what would happen in an emergency: *oh, yeah, so and so called something about Christmas, no wait, a crisis.* Sorry, Fairywings, but to paraphrase Elaine on Seinfeld, I don't think your T is out of pocket worthy.
I would send him the letter and include that you expected compassion, not coldness. He just got a cyber slap from me. A hard cold one.
((((FW))))) safe cyber hugs.
Poet
Posted by muffled on August 4, 2006, at 13:11:03
In reply to Re: Been away sick....need some advice » Racer, posted by fairywings on August 4, 2006, at 12:47:44
FW,
Maybe you could take these posts in. It sounds like it would make for a good session. I think its super important (yet hard to do) to get these things clear and out in the open. Cuz the T relationship I think IS so different.
My T sucks at phoning back. Sometimes she does, sometimes she doesn't. She is also COMPLETELY unavailable over the weekend, and in the night. She has made that VERY clear. And thats ok, so long as I know.
I think if you discuss all that you have posted in this thread with your T, it will become very clear whether or not he is the T for you. He may or may not be.
My T's phone message says to phone crisis line or got to emerg. if there's a problem. So she is not always avail.
The caring thing is HUGE. Its also a minefield of danger.
My T has been very unconditionally accepting of me (its her job after all) and thats been very good for me.
She has said she cares about me.
So I dunno, maybe this isn't very clear or helpful.
But I am not very clear right now.
My T is away, but is back on Tues.
Sigh.......
I dunno.
Take care FW.
Hope you can work it out.
I've found alot get learned with anger. I told my T to f*ck off more than once and its been useful!!!!
Ha.
See ya,
Muffly
Posted by muffled on August 4, 2006, at 13:13:55
In reply to Re: Been away sick....need some advice » fairywings, posted by Poet on August 4, 2006, at 13:08:56
Yeah, and it IS kinda weird that he don't listen to his own messages, goto admit that would MAJORLY bug me.
Anyhow, he should know this stuff.
mebbe you can educate him FW.
Give him SH*T!!!!!
Then let us know how it goes.
Muffy
Posted by Dinah on August 4, 2006, at 16:35:22
In reply to Been away sick....need some advice, posted by fairywings on August 3, 2006, at 14:37:37
I'm so sorry about your back!
It's kind of weird that he doesn't listen to his voicemail himself. Does it say so in the message? I'd be freaked out if I thought I was leaving him a confidential message and found I wasn't. Not to mention having it passed on incorrectly. That's a mighty big slip up on his office staff's part.
I'm glad he tried to be kind after he found out. I hope he follows it up with some instructions to his staff about properly taking a message. I think probably only you can know if he fulfills your needs enough for it to be worth his limits.
I don't think I could live with knowing I could never reach my therapist outside session. In fact, the more available he makes himself to me, the less often I call him at all. But that's me.
Posted by TherapyGirl on August 4, 2006, at 20:53:45
In reply to Re: Been away sick....need some advice » fairywings, posted by Dinah on August 4, 2006, at 16:35:22
I agree with everyone else, but especially Dinah. I, too, have found that the more available my T is to me, the less I need to actually call. It's more the knowing I can call her if I need to, rather than the having to.
I'd also be curious to know what your T says on his voice mail message about who is listening to it. My T specifically states that her voice mail is confidential.
I'm so sorry about your back and your T. I don't know how to tell you to get over it because I'm not sure I'd be able to.
Posted by LadyBug on August 5, 2006, at 1:44:02
In reply to Been away sick....need some advice, posted by fairywings on August 3, 2006, at 14:37:37
I'd be furious if my T didn't get her own voice mail and I had to leave one knowing that someone else was going to listen to it? How impersonal. And to me he should have checked with you by calling you and asking you if you were mad. The fact that you injured your spine and he didn't bother finding out from you about it makes me wonder what he's in it for? I'd be pissed!!!!! I know I'd leave my T if she did something like that. But only you know for sure what is best for you. Write a letter? You bet, and let him know just how hurt you are. We are human's too and we have feelings. We pay to have our feelings taken into account!
Just my 2 cents.
Best wishes on your recovery with your spine. Ouch! It makes me hurt to think of how painful is it for you. I hope it heals quickly and nicely.
Take care~
LadyBug
Posted by fairywings on August 7, 2006, at 7:03:24
In reply to Re: Been away sick....need some advice » fairywings, posted by Poet on August 4, 2006, at 13:08:56
> Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. You have a pain in your back and now your T is being a pain in the butt. The former hopefully will heal soon. The later I'm not so sure about.LOL, You're so funny Poet! ; )
> I understand your T doesn't listen to his own messages, but I would think he would require whoever does listen to them to be detailed. In other words, not *Fairywings cancelled,* but *Fairywings has a serious back injury and cancelled because of it.*
The messages were separate - I left 2 messages with the front desk that I'd fractured my spine, and cancelled my appt. late on a Sat., and on his voice mail.
> Geez, what would happen in an emergency: *oh, yeah, so and so called something about Christmas, no wait, a crisis.* Sorry, Fairywings, but to paraphrase Elaine on Seinfeld, I don't think your T is out of pocket worthy.I had a crises over a month ago, and just had to deal with it with my husband, and didn't tell my T till 3 days later, by then I was fine. It was a crisis with meds, and didn't tell my pdoc till a week later. I could've called him, but there wouldn't have been anything he could've done, so I didn't.
> I would send him the letter and include that you expected compassion, not coldness. He just got a cyber slap from me. A hard cold one.
I'm going to tell him that. I wish he'd given me the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming I cancelled to throw off his bottom line. I've been going there over a year - pdoc and T - and I've never done that.
Thanks (((Poet))),
fw
Posted by fairywings on August 7, 2006, at 7:08:30
In reply to Re: Been away sick....need some advice, posted by muffled on August 4, 2006, at 13:13:55
Hi Muffy,
Thanks. My T and pdocs message says the same thing go to the ER in an emergency. Sounds so cold and heartless, but I know they're entitled to their weekends.
I don't like that he doesn't listen to his own messages - like he's too important to do that. I know it's a time thing - he's really crunched for time.
I don't know if I want to be in a relationship where I know I'm set up to be burned because he will only care 1 hour per week. Who needs it?
Thanks,
fw
Posted by fairywings on August 7, 2006, at 7:16:12
In reply to Re: Been away sick....need some advice » fairywings, posted by Dinah on August 4, 2006, at 16:35:22
> I'm so sorry about your back!
Thanks Dinah, now I have something else wrong with me - with my nervous system and muscles - it's always something.
> It's kind of weird that he doesn't listen to his voicemail himself. Does it say so in the message? I'd be freaked out if I thought I was leaving him a confidential message and found I wasn't. Not to mention having it passed on incorrectly. That's a mighty big slip up on his office staff's part.I think it's weird too, and it doesn't say anything - I wondered if he listened, thought his asst. probably did, but it pissed me off to hear he doesn't. What happened to confidentiality? His asst isn't bound to HIPPA in the same way he is.
>
> I'm glad he tried to be kind after he found out. I hope he follows it up with some instructions to his staff about properly taking a message. I think probably only you can know if he fulfills your needs enough for it to be worth his limits.I'm not sure he'll say anything to his staff since he defended them about not passing on the message. Maybe he will. Right now I think I'll go back one more time - to get some things back, and tell him I want to read my file. I'm still really hurt and angry that he wasn't concerned for me, just for his bottom line.
> I don't think I could live with knowing I could never reach my therapist outside session. In fact, the more available he makes himself to me, the less often I call him at all. But that's me.
Yep, he's great in sessions, but completely unavailable unless you have an appt. My pdoc is always there if there's a problem, and I only call if it's necessary because I know how busy he is.
Thanks Dinah,
fw
Posted by Jost on August 7, 2006, at 12:00:43
In reply to Re: Been away sick....need some advice » Dinah, posted by fairywings on August 7, 2006, at 7:16:12
> >
>
> > It's kind of weird that he doesn't listen to his voicemail himself. Does it say so in the message? I'd be freaked out if I thought I was leaving him a confidential message and found I wasn't. Not to mention having it passed on incorrectly. That's a mighty big slip up on his office staff's part.
>
> I think it's weird too, and it doesn't say anything - I wondered if he listened, thought his asst. probably did, but it pissed me off to hear he doesn't. What happened to confidentiality? His asst isn't bound to HIPPA in the same way he is.
> >
> >Dinah's brought up an important point. Your concerns about his not taking his own voicemail, and confidentiality issues seem on point, fairywings.
Allowing anyone else to listen or know what you've said seems inappropriate to me. Confidentiality is crucial, and non-negotiable. I could never trust a T who let other people listen to his voicemail. Or, to put it another way, a T whom I could never reach with a pressing issue outside of my appointment.
That's an issue that could very well be a deal-breaker. It shows lack of professionalism, or lack of understanding of some of the responsibilities involved in being a T.
I'm glad he shows caring in the appointments, but caring is also actions in the way you set up and run your practice.
Jost
Posted by fairywings on August 7, 2006, at 14:09:28
In reply to Re: Been away sick....need some advice FairyWings, posted by TherapyGirl on August 4, 2006, at 20:53:45
Hi TG
I agree, people should know, when they get his voicemail, that he doesn't listen to it, that their messages aren't confidential, and they should also know he might never get their message! I'm mad about this one!
Thanks. My feelings are very hurt, and I don't get over hurt easily, esp. when it's gonna cost me $125 an "hour". Grrrrrr! I do like him, he's very nice, but now it feels so fake because he wasn't there for me, and I know he wouldn't be there for me in a real crisis.....well maybe IF I had an appt.! Maybe his other patients schedule their crisises to coincide with their appts!
fw
Posted by fairywings on August 7, 2006, at 14:29:29
In reply to Re: Been away sick....need some advice, posted by LadyBug on August 5, 2006, at 1:44:02
Thanks LB,
I wrote him a letter last wednesday, and told him how hurt I was about some of the things he said, and that he'd made assumptions (like he has before and was wrong), that he didn't have all the facts and didn't ask me for the facts, that he didn't give me the benefit of the doubt, and that he was more concerned with his bottom line than his patient's well being.
I have grown to really like him, and it will be hard to quit, but I feel that he's betrayed my trust. Also, knowing there's a lack of confidentiality concerns me, knowing he feels he has to protect himself from his patients with a gatekeeper concerns me, and knowing he's not there other than appt time turns me off. I don't understand those things, it all makes it feel like a farce. I trusted him and I opened up to him. I've told him things I never told anyone, and now I wish I hadn't.
I'd like to think he really cared, and I'd like to think I matter, but I feel really taken in to have seen him for almost a year and know now that it doesn't matter one way or another to him whether I'm there or not. He doesn't give me a second thought - that hurts.
Actually the spine isn't too bad, but the muscular problems are what hurts. I'll be fine, thanks for your concern! ; )
fw
Posted by fairywings on August 7, 2006, at 14:41:06
In reply to Re: Been away sick....need some advice, posted by Jost on August 7, 2006, at 12:00:43
Boy, you hit the nail on the head Jost.....actions! His actions didn't show he cared. He assumed I was throwing a temper tantrum, so he wasn't going to "give me the satisfaction" of calling me, or having someone call me to find out why I cancelled.
He also gave his staff the benefit of the doubt - not me. That was a big BIG mistake! I've been seeing him almost a year, but he gives the benefit of the doubt to someone who's worked there a couple of months??!!! He defended her, and took her side over mine! Too much like the things my mom used to do. I feel very burned!
To me all of this might have been the ultimate "deal-breaker" - I like the word - i think I'll use it. I feel very betrayed. I don't want other people knowing my business, and I was never told someone else would be listening to my voicemail, or reading my private, personal, confidential letters!
Thanks Jost,
fw
Posted by muffled on August 7, 2006, at 15:34:00
In reply to Re: Been away sick....need some advice » Jost, posted by fairywings on August 7, 2006, at 14:41:06
Well FW sorry your hurting.
I hope your able to present this all to him clearly(or bring in these posts).
To be fair, he MAY care, I dunno.
But what I'm comming to figger is that T's are T's and thats it. The reason that we CAN tell them our weird sh*t is cuz they are neutral observers. They can't hold our hands all the time no matter how much we wish they would. They can't fill the unmet needs that never got filled when we were kids. They guide us and help us see more clearly, but I think thats about it.
That being said, I think he did breach the confidentiality thing, and it sounds like your gonna let him know that, so thats good. Maybe you'll save someone else the heartache you are going thru.
I think T's need to make things MUCH clearer right from the start, and keep reminding us of theses things.
Its hard and confusing.
Ilike you FW, please take care,
Muffled
Posted by fairywings on August 7, 2006, at 19:09:11
In reply to Re: Been away sick....need some advice, posted by muffled on August 7, 2006, at 15:34:00
Thanks Muffy,
You're right, I know you're right - it's like my husband has told me ..... if they care too much it would kill them. So the ability to stay neutral, and out of our stuff, is probably a real asset to them. I agree, everything should be as clear as possible right from the start.
That said, I think I'll tell him he could've shown a little more concern for me, and not have it appear to me that he was more concerned about his bottom line. And, he should've given me the benefit of the doubt, esp. since I've been incredibly reliable.I like you too Muffy. ; )
fw
Posted by fairywings on August 11, 2006, at 9:40:04
In reply to Re: Been away sick....need some advice » fairywings, posted by Poet on August 4, 2006, at 13:08:56
Hi Poet,
Yes it was OUCH!!! He really hurt my feelings by not bothering to find out what happened, and then he assumed I was throwing a temper tantrum, or just being spiteful. I'm not spiteful at all, and I usually tell him if I'm mad. He needs your cyberslap - thanks I'll give it to him. I wrote him a letter and told him where he was wrong, and how much he hurt me. If he ruins my week again, I'll be so pissed off.
Thanks for your note. Sorry I didn't respond sooner. I'm in so much pain I can't stand it! It hurts to even hold my head up.
hugs,
fw
Posted by muffled on August 15, 2006, at 23:02:13
In reply to Re: Been away sick....need some advice » muffled, posted by fairywings on August 7, 2006, at 19:09:11
This is the end of the thread.
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