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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on August 12, 2006, at 0:52:00
OK, this is doctor related, and it may of course be triggering for some. That's a warning....
A couple of weeks ago, I started physical therapy and I'm currently in a lot of pain from it. Today I looked up the basis for the problem, and read a lot about "this is normal in young children, but if it hasn't corrected itself by 7 or 8, something really oughta be done..." Well, guess what? Nothing was done, in my case, and it's led to osteoarthritis, and hip pain that finally got severe enough to send me to the doctor for it. Thus, physical therapy and more pain. (Today it's hurting a lot, so it's kinda on my mind...)
Anyway, that whole thing got me remembering bad doctor experiences from when I was younger. My mother took me to UCSF, because it was a teaching hospital and so she thought they'd give better care.
They didn't.
I won't go into all the stories, because some are too personal, but they range from "only" humiliating, to abusive -- a doctor hitting me when I was 14 for screaming and crying when he tried to lance an abcessed tonsil without anesthetic -- to life threatening malpractice. And all of it left me feeling pretty pathetic whenever I walk into a doctor's office. And I'm more than likely to walk out saying, "Oh, OK, I guess my hip only hurts so much because I'm a hypochondriac with no tolerance for pain..."
And then I get home and hate myself for not being able to behave like a normal adult. For letting some idiot who had the money to go to school treat me like some sort of inferior being when it's all supposed to be about making me well.
So, tonight, thinking about the things that happened, I got into one of my old reactions: I just kinda go limp. It feels kinda like being boxed in, without any way to escape, and no way to move. It's really about how much of my life has been negatively impacted by these experiences, and feeling hopeless about ever receiving decent care from a doctor.
I do it in a lot of different areas, though. I just -- go limp. It's something I've seen cats do, when they're objecting, but not ready to fight about it. (One of the cats bit my husband today. he thought it was cute...) I think of a couple of possible solutions, and they won't work, and I can't think of a workable solution -- and that's when I go limp. "I'm so tired of fighting -- it doesn't matter anymore." Sounds like one of the cognitive roots of my depression, right? {sigh}
That's also what I do around medications, too. It's what leads me to decide to stop meds periodically: "I'm so miserable on this med, and it's causing as much trouble as the depression itself, so why bother?"
Ugh.
OK. That's enough of my drivel. Anyone else relate?
Posted by fallsfall on August 12, 2006, at 7:50:08
In reply to Collapsing inward -- bad things from long ago, posted by Racer on August 12, 2006, at 0:52:00
Yup. I use depression as a "coping mechanism". When things are hard I just drop out. My therapist is working on helping me to see this pattern, and when I feeling depressed we try to figure out what I'm trying to avoid. It has helped me keep the depressions from taking such hold of me. It is a constant battle, though. For me it is a very ingrained coping style. I don't think I could do this if I didn't see him 3/week - I need to be in his office to fight against coping this way, I can't do it by myself yet.
It is worth working on. The first step is to recognize that you are going limp. The second step is to try to figure out what is causing you to go limp. Then you can start working on those causes - and then theoretically, the limp behavior will go away.
Hard work - but worth it. Good luck!
Posted by ElaineM on August 12, 2006, at 11:42:56
In reply to Collapsing inward -- bad things from long ago, posted by Racer on August 12, 2006, at 0:52:00
Oh God, Racer!! I couldn't get through your whole post. I can't stop crying -- I've never cried reading a post before. [But I want to stress that I *chose* to read as far as I did, knowing that it would be hard] While they are terribly sad tears, they let me know that I'm not unique in my pain -- tears with isolation hurt more than tears brought out by identifying.
I can't say anything other than I can relate too well. I know you're not a hugger so I won't offer that, but I need you to know how very much I feel for you. I doubt that what we have is the same but your words could mine.
God, I really can't get over how effected I am by what I read of your story -- I want to try and read the last bit when I'm able (so sorry if I've gone off on an irrelevant tangent) I think it's especially difficult to hear your pain because I know you have the ED diagnosis too -- there is nothing like Anorexia to take away a person's credibility in the eyes of medical professionals. Most of all, when you've actually "recovered". I don't want to say too much because I don't want to upset you further, but I could write volumes about what having a psychiatric history has done to doctors believing my "perceptions", and "what feels real to me".... My veracity is in question now more than ever -- when I desperately need to have doctors "working for me" the most. I think you know what that's like.
I had only recently come to understand how well you could understand some of the stuff I've been through. But this last post has brought so much tears, and empathy, and desire to support you. I haven't had it in me to respond to too many posts lately -- I'm just too unwell -- but I'm so completely moved by your situation.
I wish I could say more right now -- I feel for you sooooo much.
care & strength, Elaine
Posted by Jost on August 12, 2006, at 12:34:28
In reply to Re: Collapsing inward -- bad things from long ago » Racer, posted by fallsfall on August 12, 2006, at 7:50:08
I relate a lot to what you';re saying, Racer and Fallsfall.
Early this summer, before my T left for vacation, I began to notice that pattern.
It's a way of coping with being overwhelmed with some other feeling, I think. (I'm blanking out a little on what I came to about it. ) As I recall, it was a way of shutting out something I couldn't deal with. I'm going to try to remember more of what we said, and come back to this later. It's so frustrating how often I forget the important things I talk about with him.
But Racer, my parents also chose a sadistic pediatrician when I was young-- about 5-- I had some symptoms, and he said I was lying about them, because children of my age never got those symptoms. My mother believed him, rather than me.
Turned out I was right.-- except he wouldn't do anything until it got really serious-- leading to a whole bunch of stuff that I really won't go into--
Plus my mother decided I should still see him--
So I do know something about being treated horribly and suffering because of the inconpetence and spite of medical people-- and also possibly parents who didn't have much sense.
Would you want to say what the PT is doing? I've had long-term shoulder problems and been to endless PTs, with no results, until the last one, who has helped a little.
Not to pry, but are you doing muscle=strengthening? I'm doing a lot of that, so I wondered. Is there anything specifically that this PT is doing that feels insensitive or uncaring? (If you want to say)
I'm sorry it hurts so much. Do you have pain meds? You really shouldn't be in that much pain. If the pain were less, you would feel more yourself, and perhaps not be overwhelmed by the other feelings. Pain makes everything else start to be too much.
Jost
Posted by llrrrpp on August 12, 2006, at 17:11:30
In reply to Re: Collapsing inward -- bad things from long ago, posted by Jost on August 12, 2006, at 12:34:28
Hi Racer,
sorry you're feeling miserable.
I just wanted to tell you that there are too many people who go into the medical profession because they are good students and good students go to medical school.One of my relatives is a doctor. He decided to go into private practice because he didn't want to deal with the limitations of hospitals, health insurance, etc. He just wanted to help people without the burden and conflict of interest imposed by a system that is designed around efficiency and capitalism, rather than around caring for human beings.
I have had the experience of both caring medical professionals and professionals who viewed my suffering as a burden. Who think that my physical pain is a judgment that THEY are poor doctors. They react to my pain by getting defensive and evntually rejecting me. I'm sorry that this is your experience. Hopefully your medical problems will sort themselves out, and you can find a professional who really cares about you and your body, because you deserve it.
Going limp? Yep. I know about that. Learned helplessness? I don't know. I guess Falls has the best suggestion. The German version of Psychology Today was discussing depression as an adaptive mechanism that is designed to conserve resources in times of extreme stress. Well stress is definitely a condition of modern life. I guess it's important to attack both the sources of stressfulness of your daily life, as well as adjust your interpretations and reactions to these situations.
wishing you the best-
-ll
p.s. sometimes when we're falling, going limp is the only way to avoid injury
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