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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by littleone on August 5, 2006, at 22:23:21
The topic of my last session was ... babble. Babble is almost my only connection to other people. So I guess it's kind of important to me. And yet I find it so very hard to be here.
I'll make a few posts, then something will trigger an old response to run and hide. So I'll be invisible for a long time until something triggers an old response that causes me to respond to something. So I'll make a few posts til I'm driven to run and hide again.
I have made progress though. Even though I'm still reacting to the triggers, I'm starting to be able to recognise what exactly triggered me and how it ties in to old mum or dad stuff. Little turtle steps.
In the past if my mum has expressed even the slightest dissatisfaction with something I've said, my automatic response is to rush over straight away and fix things and make them all better and basically make mum all better again. If I don't do this, I get totally ignored by her to the extent where I basically feel like I've ceased to exist to her (and maybe at all?).
So anyway, a recent post triggered this old jump in and make it all better response. Which I must point out was not a bad thing. It was actually really good in that it really helped me to see why I post the way I do.
However, once I recognised how and why I was responding, I was left feeling very confused. I can see it's probably not helpful to repeat the old response, but by the same token, if a poster is in need or after support or whatever, I don't think it's right to ignore that simply in an attempt to break the old automatic response.
My T came up with a suggestion that I was hoping you guys could share your thoughts on.
He suggested that I do reply, but that I start off the reply explaining why I felt compelled to respond (ie how it is similar to old mum or dad stuff). He stressed that I should make clear that the poster said nothing wrong and that it's not a bad thing that I've been triggered. It is actaully good in that it gives me an opportunity to work through these issues. The main thing is that I express how I felt and why. And after that, then I can go on to respond to the poster's original post with support or ideas or comments or whatever.
He said the main beneifts of these were working through the trigger, increased self disclosure and learning certain things by experiencing them (eg in a response I may get back).
I had a heap of arguments why I should not do this. Which he shot down as soon as I could put them up.
- Increased self disclosure is very scary and threatening (ack!)
- I don't want to hijack anyone's thread ("start a new thread re your reactions")
- If people post looking for support or whatever, they don't want to hear all my rubbish first ("Isn't babble a place to share your feelings and thoughts?")
- I don't want people to feel bad because they said something to trigger me. I don't want them to feel like they have to treat me with kid gloves ("Make sure you stress it is a good thing and that they've done nothing wrong")So I decided to go halfway for now. I thought I would post this to see what you guys all think about it. Postive or negative comments are perfectly okay. I'd just like to get some honest feedback to take back to my T. Thanks for reading this far (if you made it).
Posted by littleone on August 5, 2006, at 22:25:56
In reply to Babble stuff (long), posted by littleone on August 5, 2006, at 22:23:21
Actually, I think my two main reasons for not wanting to do this is because:
1. I feel like it is a really inappropriate thing to say and would not be received well, and
2. It would make the poster feel bad instead of making things all better.
I know both of these reasons go directly back to my old mum stuff, but I can't tell if there is some truth in them for babble or not.
I guess that's why I'm asking for your feedback.
Posted by muffled on August 6, 2006, at 1:08:54
In reply to Re: Babble stuff, posted by littleone on August 5, 2006, at 22:25:56
Ha Littleone, you know what I think????????
I think you got a great T !!!!!
Post away I say. I was not even the teensiest bothered by the post. In fact I was delited and learned from it.
I think its a great idea.
:-)
Muffled
Posted by Estella on August 6, 2006, at 1:27:21
In reply to Re: Babble stuff » littleone, posted by muffled on August 6, 2006, at 1:08:54
> He suggested that I do reply, but that I start off the reply explaining why I felt compelled to respond (ie how it is similar to old mum or dad stuff). He stressed that I should make clear that the poster said nothing wrong and that it's not a bad thing that I've been triggered. It is actaully good in that it gives me an opportunity to work through these issues. The main thing is that I express how I felt and why. And after that, then I can go on to respond to the poster's original post with support or ideas or comments or whatever.
:-)
Sounds... Theraputic to me :-)
Posted by llrrrpp on August 6, 2006, at 3:59:00
In reply to Re: Babble stuff, posted by Estella on August 6, 2006, at 1:27:21
hi littleone,
i agree that your T has some great ideas.
by all means post and tell us more about your triggers and your work to overcome these patterns. i think it would be an excellent learning opportunity for all, and good therapy for you.-ll
Posted by Dinah on August 6, 2006, at 18:10:08
In reply to Babble stuff (long), posted by littleone on August 5, 2006, at 22:23:21
I think your therapist has suggested sensible ways to self disclose about your own reactions, and own them completely.
It is scary to self disclose, but there tend to be large rewards commensurate with the risks.
My therapist has taught a lot of how I react to things using Babble. In some of those areas I think I've made large strides. In others I still struggle, but it's helpful to have greater understanding of my patterns.
Good to see you posting.
Posted by littleone on August 6, 2006, at 21:06:05
In reply to Re: Babble stuff » littleone, posted by muffled on August 6, 2006, at 1:08:54
> Ha Littleone, you know what I think????????
> I think you got a great T !!!!!<< Thanks muffled. I think he’s pretty special. It’s taken me a long time to realise that and believe it. Sometimes the teenager get’s jack of him and wants to bail, but I’m getting better at working through that.
> Post away I say. I was not even the teensiest bothered by the post. In fact I was delited and learned from it.
> I think its a great idea.
> :-)
> Muffled<< I get real worried because it’s kind of drilled into us that babble is a place for support and education. It isn’t necessarily a place to express yourself and it’s not a place to do therapy. I worry that doing what my T suggested would be crossing the line and using babble for something it’s not meant to be.
Posted by littleone on August 6, 2006, at 21:06:59
In reply to Re: Babble stuff, posted by Estella on August 6, 2006, at 1:27:21
> :-)
> Sounds... Theraputic to me :-)<< Thanks estella. Yeah, it does sound like a good idea therapeutically. A good way to try and work on two old mum things at once. Just not sure babble is the place to do it. But then, I can’t see me doing it in real life either. Can you imagine interrupting a conversation to say “Oh, when you said x, I felt y because it reminded me of how my mum treated me like z.” The other person would be left feeling like they’d travelled to some parallel dimension.
Posted by littleone on August 6, 2006, at 21:07:44
In reply to Re: Babble stuff, posted by llrrrpp on August 6, 2006, at 3:59:00
> i agree that your T has some great ideas.
> by all means post and tell us more about your triggers and your work to overcome these patterns. i think it would be an excellent learning opportunity for all, and good therapy for you.<< Thanks llrrrpp. You make it sound like a really good thing. I wish my younger parts would believe you. I think I have a lot of trouble believing that anyone would be interested in hearing about my triggers and work I’ve done. My T is the only person ever who has wanted to hear me. Is it any wonder I have so much trouble talking.
Posted by fairywings on August 7, 2006, at 15:28:11
In reply to Babble stuff (long), posted by littleone on August 5, 2006, at 22:23:21
Hi Little One,
I agree, I think your T had good ideas, and if it will help you, by all means do it. I hope it helps you.
fw
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 7, 2006, at 18:05:18
In reply to Re: Babble stuff » muffled, posted by littleone on August 6, 2006, at 21:06:05
> I get real worried because it’s kind of drilled into us that babble is a place for support and education. It isn’t necessarily a place to express yourself and it’s not a place to do therapy. I worry that doing what my T suggested would be crossing the line and using babble for something it’s not meant to be.
Thanks for keeping the line in mind, but it's fine to use Babble for new interpersonal skills. For example, some excerpts from a survey:
> Babble is a place to test out stronger reactions ... to learn about my own methods of interaction (what works, what doesn't work, what I should stop / start / do more of).
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041027/msgs/411257.html
> Babble gives me the opportunity to practice responding rather than reacting to others. ... we have the opportunity to really think about our posts before hitting 'submit.'
>
> I avoid conflict in the real world because I associate it with physical violence and verbal abuse. But physical violence and verbal abuse aren't things that I have to worry about with Babble so I guess it is a relatively safe setting for me to get some exposure to conflict and hopefully learn some skills around conflict resolution.http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041027/msgs/413401.html
Bob
Posted by littleone on August 7, 2006, at 21:21:39
In reply to Re: Babble stuff (long) » littleone, posted by Dinah on August 6, 2006, at 18:10:08
> I think your therapist has suggested sensible ways to self disclose about your own reactions, and own them completely.
>
> It is scary to self disclose, but there tend to be large rewards commensurate with the risks.I could understand that there would be rewards from self disclosing shameful things. That being accepted by the other person would help to reduce the shame. But I have a lot of trouble understanding what the rewards are with other types of self disclosure.
Do you think there are rewards associated with self disclosing your reactions?
> Good to see you posting.It's good to see *you* posting :)
I must admit that I had been a bit worried about you. I just felt like you weren't your old self and were maybe really struggling with something in your life. You do seem to be a bit better now. I hope things are okay for you.
Posted by littleone on August 7, 2006, at 21:25:14
In reply to Re: Babble stuff (long) » littleone, posted by fairywings on August 7, 2006, at 15:28:11
> I agree, I think your T had good ideas, and if it will help you, by all means do it. I hope it helps you.
Thanks fairywings. I think the hardest part will be sticking around to actually make posts. It feels like I'm already making sure my running shoes are in arms reach.
Posted by littleone on August 7, 2006, at 21:43:01
In reply to Re: new interpersonal skills, posted by Dr. Bob on August 7, 2006, at 18:05:18
Yikes!!
Seeing you on my thread scared the pants off me. You really need to clear your throat or knock or something first :)
Thanks for the reassurance Dr Bob. I'm sure my T will be thrilled with what you've said. I, on the other hand, am a bit worried because you've just taken away my biggest hurdle.
Posted by Dinah on August 7, 2006, at 21:47:21
In reply to Self disclosure » Dinah, posted by littleone on August 7, 2006, at 21:21:39
Sometimes. It helps to increase intimacy.
At any rate it isn't an undoable decision. If you find you aren't getting anything from it, you can ask your therapist if you can process things with him instead. Life is so often an experiment, taking reasonable risks, and seeing what happens.
I guess it's the figuring out what is a reasonable risk that's difficult. But we're encouraging you, right? That should moderate the risk.
I'm not really myself, I'm not sure why or how to fix it. I can't put an easy name on what's wrong. But thank you for your concern. Sometimes it's nice just to have somebody recognize that something's wrong.
Posted by littleone on August 8, 2006, at 21:21:04
In reply to Re: Self disclosure » littleone, posted by Dinah on August 7, 2006, at 21:47:21
> Sometimes. It helps to increase intimacy.
I know in my head that's supposed to be a good a thing. It just seems kind of crazy that the "reward" is just as scary as the thing that deserves rewarding.
> At any rate it isn't an undoable decision. If you find you aren't getting anything from it, you can ask your therapist if you can process things with him instead. Life is so often an experiment, taking reasonable risks, and seeing what happens.Yeah, you're right. It's just something to try. Not a permanent thing unless I want it to be. And there's a nice big escape hatch to dive through if I need it. I know I've gotta take a risk and try things.
> I'm not really myself, I'm not sure why or how to fix it. I can't put an easy name on what's wrong. But thank you for your concern. Sometimes it's nice just to have somebody recognize that something's wrong.Sorry to hear you're not feeling so great. I was trying to think about what Camp Comfort would be like for you. I bet there'd be barbie dolls galore and lots of room for your doggies and there would even be a special cabin set aside just for you - decorated in a lovely combination of pink and yellow. What would you do during the day at Camp Comfort?
Posted by Estella on August 8, 2006, at 22:40:52
In reply to Re: Self disclosure » Dinah, posted by littleone on August 8, 2006, at 21:21:04
I think my biggest issues are around fear and shame and embarrassment and humiliation around the idea that... if people really saw me. really saw what i think and how i feel and what i remember and the things i've done... then they would feel disgusted or repulsed in response. my biggest fear is that i'm somehow unacceptable and unworthy.
different people have different issues, of course.
but i've found that on babble... when i see how people support each other... it gives me courage to talk about some of that stuff that i'd never say / admit to irl because... i'm too ashamed / scared / embarrassed.
i disclose just a little... and you know what happens? people generally post something like 'yeah i've thought similar thoughts / had similar feelings / done similar stuff myself'. or if they don't say that... they are sympathetic and supportive (generally). and when that happens... i'm able to say with just a little more confidence 'you know maybe i'm not such a bad person after all'. i'm able to bring myself to believe it just that little bit more. i'm able to accept and like myself just that little bit more.
and then... i'm able to disclose something a bit bigger...
that is what i find most theraputic about babble. or maybe... that is something that i find theraputic about babble because i find a lot else besides that is theraputic as well :-) but that is probably the most significant thing about babble for me.
it is true that sometimes self disclosures aren't particularly well received. i guess that is where the civility rules are helpful. also... typically if someone posts something not so helpful... there are a lot of posters here and so take what helps and leave the rest i say :-)
don't know if this helps you or not...
but i think... this is one of the wonderful things about babble. but... baby steps yeah. because it is true that there is always a bit of a risk that something won't be well received. but nothing risked nothing gained. also... little disclosures and supportive responses and one becomes more resilient to be able to deal with unhelpful responses (and not take them personally).
:-)
Posted by daisym on August 9, 2006, at 12:48:01
In reply to Babble stuff (long), posted by littleone on August 5, 2006, at 22:23:21
I think it will take a fair amount of strength on your part to recognize what button is being pushed and admit to it. I hope you will cut yourself come slack and go gently forward with this. You don't have to write perfect posts or self-disclose all the time. Sometimes it is OK to say, "gee, that sounds awful" and leave it at that. I would hate for posting to become a worse chore than it is now.
For me, I started posting about 2 1/2 years ago because I had no one to talk to about all this stuff. Especially the "how do I do therapy right?" parts. Now I am working on finding IRL supports too - not trading in Babble but allowing myself the honesty that feels so good to be more present with other friends too. Not too much honesty, and not all the time. Self-disclosure was not anything I thought I could ever do, so practicing here has really helped. I'm still fairly shy about personal stuff IRL -- I hold a lot of thoughts in my head. But I'm getting better.
I hope this experiment helps you the way it has me.
Good luck!
Daisy
Posted by Dinah on August 9, 2006, at 14:08:41
In reply to Re: Self disclosure » Dinah, posted by littleone on August 8, 2006, at 21:21:04
Snuggle into the pillowed corner of my daybed, watch tv, and rub one foot soothingly against the other?
I've been tending to do that in my Barbie filled pink and yellow study. :)
Posted by Dinah on August 9, 2006, at 14:11:13
In reply to Re: Self disclosure » Dinah, posted by littleone on August 8, 2006, at 21:21:04
Covered in maltese of course.
Posted by littleone on August 9, 2006, at 21:38:53
In reply to Re: Self disclosure » littleone, posted by Estella on August 8, 2006, at 22:40:52
> my biggest fear is that i'm somehow unacceptable and unworthy.
Yeah. The thing is, both "unacceptable" and "unworthy" are driven by the external response from others. Like you need other people to find you acceptable and worthy. I think a big thing I need to learn in therapy is to not rely on other people to provide my worth. To not care what they think. To just know within myself that I've done the right thing and to find myself acceptable.
Of course, I'm no where even remotely close to that.
And I wanted to add that I think you are perfectly acceptable and worthy. Even though I know a few of the things that you probably think make you unacceptable/unworthy. I don't think they make you less acceptable/worthy.
Posted by littleone on August 9, 2006, at 21:45:50
In reply to Re: Babble stuff (long) » littleone, posted by daisym on August 9, 2006, at 12:48:01
> I think it will take a fair amount of strength on your part to recognize what button is being pushed and admit to it.
Yeah. In hindsight I can sometimes see what button was pushed, but seeing it in time is hard. And admitting to that button - that will take strength. Overcoming those old mum responses. It's so hard to break an automatic response based on fear.
Posted by littleone on August 9, 2006, at 21:48:33
In reply to Re: Self disclosure » littleone, posted by Dinah on August 9, 2006, at 14:11:13
> Covered in maltese of course.
Okay, at first I thought you meant the round chocolates, but now I'm guessing you mean the little dogs. Or am I way off base?
Posted by Dinah on August 9, 2006, at 22:57:21
In reply to Re: Self disclosure » Dinah, posted by littleone on August 9, 2006, at 21:48:33
The white silky canine variety. :)
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 11, 2006, at 2:09:51
In reply to Re: new interpersonal skills » Dr. Bob, posted by littleone on August 7, 2006, at 21:43:01
This is the end of the thread.
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