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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by littleone on June 7, 2006, at 21:59:56
I thought I would put this down here so I don't hijack Cricket's thread (note that cricket is not the same poster as me, littleone)
>>> Whereas if someone is upset about something but posts with a calmer tone, then they generally get fewer replies.
>>Do you wonder if your tone suggests assurance? Less need, more reflection? Insight over raw emotion?
It could seem that way to some. It just makes me feel sad to think that there's a belief that I'm less in need of help just because I'm not as vocal about that need. I know that for me (who never speaks up), the very fact that I do post something is a very big risky step forward and a very big deal for me.
>>....because I feel a kinship with you in some aspects of emotional reactions, and I can't imagine I'd not pick something up.
I'm a touch baffled, and sincerely sorry.My comments were certainly not against you personally Larry. In fact, you are one of the few people who have responded to me on multiple posts. It was more an observation of babble in general.
I've always appreciated your thoughtful and insightul replies. Plus I'm well aware that you were blocked at the times I posted my last few threads. You have nothing to apologise for.
I've talked to my T about this stuff a little and learnt some interesting things. But this is a hard subject for me and is tied into a lot of other hard subjects. Sometimes I don't do a good job of holding it in and it leaks out on to babble. I'm sorry for that.
>> I think the more you post, the more people get to know you and are more likely to respond.
I have had plenty of threads that just sat there. But I keep posting away.
Its definately hard to not turn it into a popularity contest at first. But I have found that , that problem has passed for me completely.
Sorry littlone that you have felt ignored.
And good on ya for saying so!!!!
Take care.
MuffledYou are a sweety muffled. I do try to post, but my instinct is to hide away and be invisible. Even after over 2 years of therapy, I've only just really started to actually talk to my T. In the past I've always just handed him a bunch of stuff I've written and he's spent the session talking about it. Trusting and opening are very hard for me.
And even when I do open up here, I really kick myself afterwards for being too open and too revealing and giving too much away.
This post was very hard for me to write, but I really didn't want to ignore the two of you. I wanted to let you know that I really appreciate what you both said.
Posted by muffled on June 7, 2006, at 23:21:58
In reply to Lurking instead of posting (Larry Muffled), posted by littleone on June 7, 2006, at 21:59:56
> >> I think the more you post, the more people get to know you and are more likely to respond.
> I have had plenty of threads that just sat there. But I keep posting away.
> Its definately hard to not turn it into a popularity contest at first. But I have found that , that problem has passed for me completely.
> Sorry littlone that you have felt ignored.
> And good on ya for saying so!!!!
> Take care.
> Muffled
>
> You are a sweety muffled. I do try to post, but my instinct is to hide away and be invisible.** :-(
Even after over 2 years of therapy, I've only just really started to actually talk to my T. In the past I've always just handed him a bunch of stuff I've written and he's spent the session talking about it. Trusting and opening are very hard for me.
**OH MAN you sound just like me. Took me a long time to sort of trust my T. I think I must drive her crazy with my pepetual need for reassurance that she don't hate me or isn't dsgusted at me for something I said.
Yeah, trust. Its HUGE.
>
> And even when I do open up here, I really kick myself afterwards for being too open and too revealing and giving too much away.**Well, why is it that you feel that way? Is it because of the potential risk of the internet and privacy (and it IS a real potential threat), or is it that you think we might think badly of you? I dunno?
>
> This post was very hard for me to write, but I really didn't want to ignore the two of you. I wanted to let you know that I really appreciate what you both said.**Well thank you. That was very nice and I do appreciate it :-)
But have you noticed that you have spoken your mind and we don't mind!
Thats how we get to know each other.
And you seem to be really nice. And if its not hurtful for you to babble, then I hope you can continue to babble away to us as you are able!
Oh yeah, your written stuff, does he read it aloud? My T used to try and get me to, but now she just does it. It used to be SO hard hearing her readf my words aloud cuz it seemed to bring them to life. Ugh. But I'm used to it now.
And do you hand your writings TO your T in person!!! Agggh! I STILL can't do it. I fax them. Then once its gone its too late. I have tried taking my writings with me, but I just can't give them to her. She'll even ask, but I just CAN'T. Talk about silly eh?!
OH well, we all go our ways I suppose.
Take care LIttlone,
Nice to see you post :-)
Muffy
Posted by Daisym on June 8, 2006, at 20:08:10
In reply to Lurking instead of posting (Larry Muffled), posted by littleone on June 7, 2006, at 21:59:56
This post sounds a lot like my therapy group last night. We were all talking about trying to fit in and feeling so different and uncomfortable, even if we really, really want to be somewhere.
Like here...I think it takes a certain amount of bravery to open yourself up here and I hope you don't regret doing that. For me it is practice before telling in therapy or practice when talking about stuff with IRL friends. When I get overwhelmed by Babble, I can turn it off. I can't with IRL people, so I need lots of practice.
I think I do know what you mean about being invested in the things you post and waiting for replies. Sometimes I think I'm a thread killer, I can't tell you how many threads end with my posts. I try to remind myself it is my time zone, not me. And I'm painfully aware that I post about the same thing over and over again.
You said you've been working on some of this "stuff" in therapy and I'm so glad you are beginning to talk to your therapist directly and not just on paper. What a huge step. Can I ask how you got into therapy at all, since you have such a hard time talking? And boy, am I impressed that you stuck with it, and your theraist stuck with it, during this long "writing" phase. I hope you are proud of yourself too.
Mostly I want to say thanks for sharing something painful instead of just logging us off.
Hugs from me,
Daisy
Posted by littleone on June 8, 2006, at 21:46:25
In reply to Re: Lurking instead of posting (Larry Muffled) » littleone, posted by muffled on June 7, 2006, at 23:21:58
> **Well, why is it that you feel that way? Is it because of the potential risk of the internet and privacy (and it IS a real potential threat), or is it that you think we might think badly of you? I dunno?
I'm always very careful with internet privacy. But I'm talking more about me stuff. I don't like anyone seeing anything about me. It all comes down to fears of rejection and/or abandonment.
> **Well thank you. That was very nice and I do appreciate it :-)
> But have you noticed that you have spoken your mind and we don't mind!
> Thats how we get to know each other.You always seem so people smart to me muffled. I just don't get people stuff at all.
> Oh yeah, your written stuff, does he read it aloud?
No. I've wanted to try a couple of times, but we're both worried that even the writing will dry up completely if I think that I have to read it out loud. And even though I'm talking a little more now, there's no way I'm reading out today's stuff. Way too gooby.
> And do you hand your writings TO your T in person!!! Agggh! I STILL can't do it. I fax them. Then once its gone its too late.
See, I couldn't do that. I have posted them to him before, but they never arrived and just the thought of them floating around in the postal system somewhere can send me off the deep end. If I hand them to him then there's no way they'll go astray.
> I have tried taking my writings with me, but I just can't give them to her. She'll even ask, but I just CAN'T. Talk about silly eh?!
No, not silly. Maybe you could try putting them in an envelope, then another envelope, then another one (so they're all wrapped up tight and can't sneak out) and then instead of actually handing them to her, you could just drop them on the floor or throw them at the door or something. Obviously she'd have to get up and go get them, but at least they'd be outta your hands.
Posted by muffled on June 11, 2006, at 20:53:36
In reply to Re: Lurking instead of posting » muffled, posted by littleone on June 8, 2006, at 21:46:25
Yeah, sending faxes wigs me out too, just in case they go astray, but I can't seem to do it any other way :-(
Oh well.
I'm a little fussed right now, sorry if I a little incoherant....
Nice to see ya posting!
Muffled
Posted by littleone on June 12, 2006, at 21:56:29
In reply to Re: Lurking instead of posting (Larry Muffled) » littleone, posted by Daisym on June 8, 2006, at 20:08:10
Okay, I wrote a whole book in reply to this and there's no way I'm putting everyone through that. So this is the very condensed version. Still very long.
> You said you've been working on some of this "stuff" in therapy and I'm so glad you are beginning to talk to your therapist directly and not just on paper. What a huge step. Can I ask how you got into therapy at all, since you have such a hard time talking? And boy, am I impressed that you stuck with it, and your theraist stuck with it, during this long "writing" phase. I hope you are proud of yourself too.
The main reason I made it to therapy was The Accident.
Work provided a few free councelling sessions after it happened and I got referred on to various T's. By the time I understood The Accident was the least of my worries, I was with a real blank slate type T.
It was just awful. I couldn't talk to him at all besides "yes", "no" and "I don't know". He just wasn't flexible enough to find a way to communicate with me so we would end up with painfully empty sessions. After 9 months with him he still didn't know a thing about me.
Meanwhile my driving was getting worse and worse, my anxiety over everything was skyrocketing and I was basically ready to just break down and give up on life altogether. As bad as therapy had been, I knew there was no way I could cope by myself.
So I got another referral. This time to my current T. He stopped my fall and has held my hand ever since.
He's so flexible and creative. When it was apparent that talking wasn't working, he got me writing. That was the only way he came to know me. Whenever I wouldn't hand over what I'd written, he'd keep at it til I did. He gets round all my excuses.
And he's just worked constantly and tirelessly on building a relationship and making things safer for me.
He had me drawing for a while. We've written notes back and forth during our sessions. We played cards for a while. He gives me letters and I've got his hanky. We look through photos I've taken. I now sit on the floor tucked into a corner beside his chair. He's recently started sitting on the floor with me.
I think it's all been adding up, but when he sat on the floor with me, it was like my walls just fell down. Some are still up, but there are big gaps in them now that I can talk through.
He's a wonderful T. He has actually made me feel safe and accepted, which is just ... miraculous.
PS I should clarify that when I say I talk now, I'm certainly no chatterbox. And the conversation certainly doesn't flow smoothly. On rare occasions words fall out of my mouth, but usually they have to be pushed out. There's still long silences as I think things over. I have to really work myself up to ask a question. That sort of thing.
But the very fact that I'm talking at all is a huge step forward.
Posted by littleone on June 12, 2006, at 22:05:35
In reply to Re: Lurking instead of posting (Larry Muffled) » littleone, posted by Daisym on June 8, 2006, at 20:08:10
So does this help prove you're not a thread-killer?
Anyway, I thought being a "thread-killer" would be a good thing. Like you habitually post thoughts of such a profound and moving nature that people are literally left speechless and need time to absorb your message.
I kind of said that a bit lighthearted, but I also kind of meant it.
Posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 22:06:52
In reply to Re: Lurking instead of posting » Daisym, posted by littleone on June 12, 2006, at 21:56:29
Seriously wonderful post to read.
Seriously cool T !!!!!!!!!
My T is not tough enough.
Proly i'll give her sh*t tomorrow.
She just so disarms my Toughie unfortunately.
Glad your doing so well!
Muffled
Posted by Daisym on June 13, 2006, at 1:16:44
In reply to Re: Lurking instead of posting » Daisym, posted by littleone on June 12, 2006, at 21:56:29
You know, books are some of my favorite friends. I'm always happy to have another, so write away! :)
Your therapist sounds just amazing. I can't see mine sitting on the floor, but then again, neither can I see myself down there. I've often imagined myself sitting under his desk though.
I'm glad you can see your own progress and recognize what a huge deal it is for you to begin to feel safe. You must have had a very painful childhood to need such tough defenses, so respect that they have been fortified out of necessity and have likely served you well in the past. Openings, like gates, are a good thing. I'm glad you've added a few.
And thanks for the nice thought about my thread killer tendency. I wish I believed it. I think perhaps what I write is so long most of the time that folks shrug and think, "I guess so." *sigh*
Thank you for sharing so much.
Hugs,
Daisy
Posted by annierose on June 13, 2006, at 6:49:59
In reply to Re: Lurking instead of posting » Daisym, posted by littleone on June 12, 2006, at 21:56:29
Littleone -
Your T sounds amazing! I'm glad that you fired your first T, trusted your gut that it just wasn't working and found T2.
Don't be too hard on yourself. It's hard for lots of us to talk. IRL I'm chatty, in therapy I too have to pull the words out, think about what I'm willing to share and endure silences. Therapy is just hard. Our souls aren't used to someone peering into them so deeply. It's uncomfortable.
I'm glad that you stuck with it. Your T sounds special.
Posted by littleone on June 22, 2006, at 21:27:03
In reply to Re: Lurking instead of posting » littleone, posted by Daisym on June 13, 2006, at 1:16:44
> Your therapist sounds just amazing. I can't see mine sitting on the floor, but then again, neither can I see myself down there. I've often imagined myself sitting under his desk though.
Yeah, I'm always hiding under his desk in my dreams.
It really blew me away the first time he sat on the floor with me. He didn't talk about it first or anything, just did it all of a sudden. He said it wasn't a spur of the moment decision, so he must have been thinking over it for a while.
But it scared me so badly at first. Even after a while he asked me to rate my comfort level with him in the chair and my comfort level with him on the floor and I couldn't reply or anything because my nerves were through the roof.
By the end of the session it was a bit easier and it has gotten easier ever since. But there's still always that moment when he first moves down to the floor and enters my space. It's still something I need to adjust to each time.
> I'm glad you can see your own progress and recognize what a huge deal it is for you to begin to feel safe.Yeah, I think I can start to see my progress in things. I'm still having a lot of trouble explaining my progress to my husband. He had an argument with me yesterday because he thinks I didn't say hello to a shop assistant and he thinks my T should be teaching me social skills. I don't know how to explain it to someone who just doesn't get it at all. Plus I don't want to because I feel his debating as an aggressive attack and really can't handle that at all.
Sorry to digress. What I meant was that yes I see some of my progress now, but I find it hard to verbalise and collate the baby steps together.
Posted by littleone on June 22, 2006, at 21:44:28
In reply to Re: Lurking instead of posting » littleone, posted by annierose on June 13, 2006, at 6:49:59
> Don't be too hard on yourself. It's hard for lots of us to talk. IRL I'm chatty, in therapy I too have to pull the words out, think about what I'm willing to share and endure silences. Therapy is just hard. Our souls aren't used to someone peering into them so deeply. It's uncomfortable.
I don't think I'm going to make sense here, but I'll try anyway.
I felt real off balance and antsy after reading your post. In one sense I understand what you're saying because I hear you all say it directly and indirectly every day. But in another sense I just couldn't believe it. It's like you guys walked into therapy already able to talk. You should be a big step ahead of me. I think it was like I thought I'd done the hard part (being able to talk) and the rest should be a lot easier (actually taking about hard stuff). I think I didn't like hearing that none of it's easy.
I'm not saying your post was a bad post, it wasn't, it really made me think about some stuff. And I didn't mean anything bad in anything else I said. I just wanted you to know that it really gave me a lot to think about.
> Your T sounds special.Yeah he is. Although the other day he said something about how I've mad with him in the past and I said "And I'm sure I'll be mad with you again in the future" and he said "Yes, I'm sure you will". And he said it real nice and with a smile like it was perfectly okay for me to be mad with him again if I want. Which is kinda nice. I've never had that okayness in my family.
Posted by littleone on June 22, 2006, at 21:49:49
In reply to Wow!!!!!!!!!!!! » littleone, posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 22:06:52
> My T is not tough enough.
> Proly i'll give her sh*t tomorrow.
> She just so disarms my Toughie unfortunately.You don't need to take a strong arm approach to be tough. Sometimes tough can be done pretty quietly and calmly. She must be pretty good to disarm your Toughie so often.
And maybe it's not a case that she isn't tough enough with you. Maybe she has a real good balance happening of how much to push you and not push you. Sometimes we only realise we've been pushed too far once it's too late.
This is the end of the thread.
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