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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by annierose on June 19, 2006, at 15:48:07
I don't know how to label this feeling besides angst, hostility or irritability --- and I don't know quite where it's coming from but I hate it and want to squash it out.
I mentioned to my T last Friday, that I've been running into the client that comes after me (on Fridays) in her vestibule. It's pretty hard, IMO, for the next client to time her arrival perfectly just as I'm leaving and she is arriving. It must be intentional. Normally, you'd walk into her office from a hallway, come into the vestibule (small area) and open the door immediately to your right for the waiting room. There's a door straight ahead as well, my T's office. SO ... I mention meeting this client twice within 3 weeks and I mention wanting to say something to her, something childish like, "T is in a bad mood today, told me she doesn't want to see you today," or "She told me I'm her favorite," or "What a coincidence, we meet here yet again" ... something to discourage her. We talked about it some and then time ran out and guess what, SHE WAS THERE AGAIN!!! So now I'm annoyed. Why is this client hanging out in the vestibule and not going into the waiting room.
I saw my T this morning and tell her that I saw "my new friend again, and I think we're going to meet for coffee next Friday". My T said, "You feel pretty vulnerable when you leave here," (not sure if that was a question or a statement). I kept quiet, not knowing how to put my feelings into words. I know it shouldn't bother me but it does. T asked, "Do you think she is doing this on purpose?" "YES, it's more than coincidence, I wonder if she's trying to listen to my session." At this point my T seemed a bit defensive and said a person couldn't hear anything from that area. I disagree. Then she suggested, "Would you like to come five minutes earlier on Fridays?"
I said "Yes" and then the annoyance came over me in full force. I just wanted to scream and I wanted to leave.It's so confusing. My T did everything right. She acknowledged my uncomfortable feelings, tried to get me to talk about it (for 15 or so minutes), thought of a solution, and still, "ARRGGGGHHHHH".
She ended the session by saying, "It seems you feel that I'm not on your side. I'm your ally. I'm here just for you. We need to understand why you are so irritable with me."
I wish it was that easy.
Posted by fallsfall on June 19, 2006, at 17:23:30
In reply to ANGST!, posted by annierose on June 19, 2006, at 15:48:07
Sounds like it isn't easy, but it is important.
I'm glad that she wants to explore it with you, and I'm glad she had a solution for the short term.
(((Annierose)))
Posted by Tamar on June 19, 2006, at 18:17:11
In reply to ANGST!, posted by annierose on June 19, 2006, at 15:48:07
> I don't know how to label this feeling besides angst, hostility or irritability --- and I don't know quite where it's coming from but I hate it and want to squash it out.
Oh, if only these feelings could be squashed!
> I mentioned to my T last Friday, that I've been running into the client that comes after me (on Fridays) in her vestibule. It's pretty hard, IMO, for the next client to time her arrival perfectly just as I'm leaving and she is arriving. It must be intentional. Normally, you'd walk into her office from a hallway, come into the vestibule (small area) and open the door immediately to your right for the waiting room. There's a door straight ahead as well, my T's office. SO ... I mention meeting this client twice within 3 weeks and I mention wanting to say something to her, something childish like, "T is in a bad mood today, told me she doesn't want to see you today," or "She told me I'm her favorite," or "What a coincidence, we meet here yet again" ...
Go for it! She’ll schlep her *ss into the waiting room pronto after something like that!
But seriously, I’d be tempted to do exactly the same thing.
> something to discourage her. We talked about it some and then time ran out and guess what, SHE WAS THERE AGAIN!!! So now I'm annoyed. Why is this client hanging out in the vestibule and not going into the waiting room.
It’s a reasonable question.
> I saw my T this morning and tell her that I saw "my new friend again, and I think we're going to meet for coffee next Friday". My T said, "You feel pretty vulnerable when you leave here," (not sure if that was a question or a statement). I kept quiet, not knowing how to put my feelings into words. I know it shouldn't bother me but it does. T asked, "Do you think she is doing this on purpose?" "YES, it's more than coincidence, I wonder if she's trying to listen to my session." At this point my T seemed a bit defensive and said a person couldn't hear anything from that area. I disagree. Then she suggested, "Would you like to come five minutes earlier on Fridays?"
> I said "Yes" and then the annoyance came over me in full force. I just wanted to scream and I wanted to leave.
>
> It's so confusing. My T did everything right. She acknowledged my uncomfortable feelings, tried to get me to talk about it (for 15 or so minutes), thought of a solution, and still, "ARRGGGGHHHHH".
>
> She ended the session by saying, "It seems you feel that I'm not on your side. I'm your ally. I'm here just for you. We need to understand why you are so irritable with me."
>
> I wish it was that easy.Well, I know if it had been me, I would have had a couple of reactions: I would have wanted the therapist to tell the other client to go into the waiting room in future – a bit like asking my parents to sort out a squabble between my brother and me. I’d want to see the other patient ‘punished’. But if you come five minutes early, you’re the one who is being asked to do something different. I’d whine like a spoiled three year-old at that, and I’d feel it was an entirely reasonable reaction.
And I suppose at another level I’d want to know why the other client was so curious about me that they were hanging around in the vestibule, and whether it was simply curiosity or whether there was some jealousy there as well.
And I’d also feel a little jealous that I was having to give up my therapist for the time being, and yet she was clearly available to another person who wasn’t me.
But that’s my reaction. I think it would be a huge mother/sibling thing for me. I don’t know about you. Does any of that resonate with you?
(((((Annierose)))))
I think I would probably deal with it by confronting the other client. I’d say indignantly, “Have you been listening at the door?” and hope she’d slink into the waiting room to avoid further confrontation in future. But that’s not an approach that works for everyone (and indeed it doesn’t always work well for me).
I hope you manage to work things out with minimum distress.
Posted by happyflower on June 19, 2006, at 21:19:36
In reply to ANGST!, posted by annierose on June 19, 2006, at 15:48:07
Hi Annierose,
What an akward situation to be in. Is there anyways you can change your appointment time so you can avoid this person?
Posted by Dinah on June 19, 2006, at 22:48:08
In reply to ANGST!, posted by annierose on June 19, 2006, at 15:48:07
I think Tamar may be on to something. Do you think you resent that you have to change your behavior to accomodate this other client's unusual behavior? I think that would be reasonable, even as I'm glad your therapist came up with a partial solution.
I'm trying to figure out what the other person may be gaining by this. Is she curious about other clients? Obsessed with the therapist? Or frightened by the waiting room for some reason? Do you leave at exactly the same time every week? I usually wait in my car and time the walk to my therapist's office to arrive at exactly the hour. Perhaps she's timed her walk to arrive ten minutes early?
I have to admit to sneaking a peek under my lashes at other clients waiting as I leave, or leaving as I arrive. But I wouldn't go out of my way to do it.
Posted by Daisym on June 20, 2006, at 0:43:57
In reply to Re: ANGST! » annierose, posted by Dinah on June 19, 2006, at 22:48:08
I would handle this whole thing by being my usual helpful self: "OH, --gee, I've noticed you've been out here a few times recently. Did you know that we are suppose to go into the waiting room, instead of hanging out here? Sometimes it is hard to figure all this out. But it is a pretty good system. Like, in case you leave in tears one day...you won't actually have to see anyone. And I guess it adds a measure of privacy too, which of course, we all want."
Hopefully she will take the hint.
I think I'd be upset that my therapist wasn't indignant for me and didn't assure me that he would deal with it. I remember a long while ago when a coworker was bringing her daughter to another therapist in my therapist's office and he would go out of his way to make sure that they weren't in the waiting room when I got there or he would intercept me and bring me in another door. It was all about safety for me.
Good luck with this. I would hate it.
Posted by Poet on June 20, 2006, at 9:03:37
In reply to ANGST!, posted by annierose on June 19, 2006, at 15:48:07
Hi Annierose,
My T shares an office suite with other therapists. Her office is directly off the waiting room- the other Ts are down the hall. I know I'd be bugged if every week I left her office and the same person was lurking outside her door.
Maybe the woman stays in the vestibule because she's not sure if she should stay or not? She's scared and feels like she should run? Though I can't see that being the case every week. It's not like she's afraid of meeting people in the waiting room like I am so I run in right before my appointment.
Maybe you can glare at the lurker, point to the waiting room door and say *did you know that's a waiting room?* and walk away. She might take the hint.
At least your T will let you come earlier on Fridays. I hope the lurker isn't there this week (or any week.)
Poet
Posted by orchid on June 20, 2006, at 12:07:38
In reply to ANGST!, posted by annierose on June 19, 2006, at 15:48:07
It would be much easier if your T told this other woman, that her previous client (you) feels uncomfortable with having her standing outside the room when the session ends and suggest instead that she wait in the waiting room and that your T will come and get her when the time is up for the next session.
That would be a very direct and polite way of handling it I feel, instead of you trying to say anything to her.
My T2 had this policy of starting every session on the hour and ending it at 50 minutes, so that left 10 mins for the next session, and no one came before the 10 mins, so I never really bumped into any of my Ts other clients.
Posted by annierose on June 20, 2006, at 12:57:51
In reply to Re: ANGST!, posted by Daisym on June 20, 2006, at 0:43:57
Thanks for everyone's support. My T did move my appointment time up by 5 minutes and told me today that if she is still there this Friday that we'll adjust it further. She sort of gave me permission to tell the client my comment #3 - "What a coincidence, we meet here yet again." T said, "Don't you think that will discourage her?"
We talked a lot about the "WHY it's bothering me so much". She tried several times to explain why she thought it was - first of all by weeding out the "Yes, it would be annoying to have to leave a vulnerable space and confront another person immediately," my T acknowledged that it was an appropriate response before delving into the "but it seems more than that to you .... " conversation. I think it was a good start but needs more sorting out. I told her that sometimes her questions seem that she is doubting my reactions or emotions rather than just trying to understand what I am feeling. Simply put, she thought I was projecting and she reassured me over and over that she was there for me, and wants to help me understand more fully what gets me angry so quickly, what the trigger is, etc. etc.
Anyway, it's funny, I am feeling better about it today, but secretly hope that woman is there again this Friday, even though I'll be leaving earlier. WHY?, you ask, because then I'll be right, the client is just lurking in the hallway. My T asked me what type of fantasy (and boy do I hate that word in this context) I had about the other client --- what do I imagine her reason is for being there. I guess I just thought she was nosey and was curious to whom the "others" look like. I've been there -- I did check out the "golden client" but not by lurking in the vestibule. I was way more clever than that!!
Posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2006, at 13:41:35
In reply to Spoke with T today, posted by annierose on June 20, 2006, at 12:57:51
It sounds like you made a good start in talking about that issue. I really hate it when my T moves straight into intepreting, though, before I'm ready. It does feel invalidating.
And I meant to post this before. You know, it's simply odd why that woman would linger in the vestibule. It's not socially "normal" behavior. I have no idea what her reason is. But I was thinking about what it would be like if I kept running into the same person in the vestibule of my T's office. That would just be weird. The exit there is designed so you do not have to go back thru the waiting area, which I really appreciate since I often look a mess or at the very least, I'm deep in thought or dazed, still.
It would bug me, too, and maybe just simply because I felt intruded upon.
Take care,
gg
Posted by fallsfall on June 20, 2006, at 19:53:00
In reply to Spoke with T today, posted by annierose on June 20, 2006, at 12:57:51
You are doing good work with your therapist. Don't you love these "therapeutic opportunities"?
(((Annierose)))
Posted by annierose on June 20, 2006, at 21:43:08
In reply to Re: Spoke with T today » annierose, posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2006, at 13:41:35
>>> I really hate it when my T moves straight into intepreting, though, before I'm ready. It does feel invalidating.<<<
I didn't feel quite like that. I'm not sure what you mean. What I was trying to say is that she was trying to be clear that she did indeed understand why that would be un-nerving, but my reaction felt stronger to her. So first she did all that validating stuff, and moved forward with her questions. It's those pesky therapy questions that bug me sometimes. She said, "I wouldn't ask the questions if I didn't want to understand. I'm trying to understand what it feels like to be in your shoes. I'm your therapist. We've been talking about anger lately and I'm trying to figure out where this ties into that, and where it's coming from."
I get tripped up because I think her questions are her way of asking, "Are you sure this is happening in the way that you say?"
I felt very validated here BTW --- I felt "normal" when my babble friends replied that they would feel bothered too. My T does want me to feel comfortable leaving her office. She gave me one of her, "Ahhh, I'm sorry" when I told her that on Fridays, I try not to talk about anything that would upset me because I didn't want her client to see me crying.
And she leaves for a 12 day vacation next week (but who's counting????) I know I'll be okay. I'm taking my daughter up north to camp for TWO entire weeks. I'm not sure who is more excited, her or me (doesn't that sound terrible???). She will have a BALL, on a beautiful lake, all girls, very pampered indeed.
Planning a visit anytime soon???
Posted by annierose on June 20, 2006, at 21:49:48
In reply to Re: Spoke with T today » annierose, posted by fallsfall on June 20, 2006, at 19:53:00
I do. I really do. I feel my therapy has moved into a different phase. I understand what Daisy means when she says she is feeling very young right now. Although I feel more grown up in my real life, in my T's office I'm between 4 and 8 years of age. I want to have a tantrum and scream, "It's not fair that I have to feel so exposed when I leave your office."
I was with my "original" family on Father's Day. Here's the good news. I didn't feel quite as vulnerable. I wasn't so edgy or defensive, I could be my more naturally charming (?) self and so what if that couldn't receive it. I felt strong. My husband even noticed a difference. Normally I want him around me to protect me from their verbal barbs.
Thanks for your support as always.
This is the end of the thread.
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