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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on March 17, 2006, at 20:31:25
I'm sorry to use that word, it was the best I could come up with. I don't know how anyone here feels about "mental illness" as a label, and I guess that gets my point across as well as anything else.
Last night, in my therapy group, the issue of identity came up. One woman said that bulimia had been her identity for so much of her life. And as she said it, I got this strong visceral reaction: I still feel as though AN is a big part of my identity, and it's not a part that I want to give up. It's a part of my identity that I like. And it bothers me that it's not longer a visible part of my identity. No one looking at me right now would know that I have an ED, and I doubt anyone could guess how horrible it is for me to be in this body that just doesn't feel right. All the time, except when I tried Ritalin, I can just feel the fat around my belly, and I HATE it. I want to be thin again, but it's largely because it feels as though my identity has been stripped away. (And my control, too, since I can't seem to lose any weight, no matter how little I eat.)
So, do any of you ever feel this? That whatever brought you to psychotherapy is too integral to your identity to give it up? Have you found your way out of that?
Just musing, and wondering how many others share this issue.
Posted by agent858 on March 17, 2006, at 20:38:19
In reply to Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by Racer on March 17, 2006, at 20:31:25
yup.
without my pathology...
we wouldn't be us anymore and i'd probably feel much more alone than i do at times anyrate...
and then...
i'd worry about what other labels would pop up to describe me...
i can't imagine being normal in the sense of having no visible signs of pathology.
who would we be?
who would i be?dunno. feel a little panicky...
Posted by sleepygirl on March 17, 2006, at 21:10:20
In reply to Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by Racer on March 17, 2006, at 20:31:25
it sort of "is" me....I guess
or I "am" a reaction to it
trauma, depression, anxiety...always moving from it, through it, around it
I don't know
Posted by Dinah on March 17, 2006, at 21:27:30
In reply to Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by Racer on March 17, 2006, at 20:31:25
I'm not sure that I do consider it integral to my identity. Maybe it's because it's because what's wrong is hard to pin down. I change so much from day to day that I scarcely recognize myself from day to day. So maybe I have no real sense of identity. :)
So if one day I woke up and I wasn't neurotic? I think I could live with that, because sometimes it's true and I'm happy enough then. I've even spent two years as a euthymic people person and I've never had a better time in my life.
I could even live with being the same person every day.
I think my only enduring sense of identity is that I like dogs, I like dolls, and integrity is important to me. Other than that, who knows.
No wait. I always like dogs, but I don't always like dolls. I always like stuff, but the stuff differs (but cycles). And integrity is always important to me. Yeah. Ok. I'll stick with that. I'm a person who likes dogs, likes stuff, and to whom integrity is important. All else is ephemeral.
Posted by Dinah on March 17, 2006, at 22:11:07
In reply to Re: Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by Dinah on March 17, 2006, at 21:27:30
Posted by NikkiT2 on March 18, 2006, at 9:46:52
In reply to Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by Racer on March 17, 2006, at 20:31:25
I was talking about thus subject with the husband last night.
But it was around smoking.. I still feel that smoking is such a part of "who I am", and it's probably one of the hardest things I have had to deal with while giving up.
Its getting my head around the fact that its the *addiction* speaking when I feel that.. I feel that there is nothing left of the rebel in me now I don't smoke, and I don't like that. I'm now in my thirties, and I keep doing all this sensible grown up stuff.. But I still want to be 18 and able to rebel. Smoking was my rebellion. Smoking was part of still being able to "shock" slightly.
Hmmm....
Maybe I need to get myself a new no-smoking rebellion tattoo *L*
Nikki xx
Posted by NikkiT2 on March 18, 2006, at 9:48:49
In reply to Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by Racer on March 17, 2006, at 20:31:25
10 weeks, 5 days, 15 hours, 43 minutes, 55 seconds since Nikki quit smoking. That is 1,513 cigarettes not smoked and £378.25 not spent on cigarettes.
Posted by Racer on March 18, 2006, at 10:37:42
In reply to PS.., posted by NikkiT2 on March 18, 2006, at 9:48:49
You're making me want one right now!
I haven't quit yet, but did cut way back when my Wellbutrin was increased. Didn't even mean to, just happened. Now that it's been decreased again, because of the stims, my smoking is back up. I don't think quite to where it seems you were, though... Lemme see, 10 weeks 5 days? That would be about 500 cigarettes for me, and that would be about $55... Maybe if I smoked more, and there'd be more money involved?
Congrats, Nikki. You really have done a big thing. I've had friends, in my own rebel youth, who got off heroin and cigarettes. They ALL said the cigarettes were harder. Don't ever downplay your accomplishment.
Posted by fairywings on March 18, 2006, at 14:32:42
In reply to Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by Racer on March 17, 2006, at 20:31:25
I would happily part with whatever my issues are.
I'd like to be happy, able to deal with the everyday stresses, be comfortable with other ppl., have a decent energy level, not have headaches, and not be as bitchy.
I guess a whole new me would be in order. I hope someday I find my way out of it, but is that doable at all, and is it doable going to therapy once a week? I don't know.fw
Posted by LegWarmers on March 18, 2006, at 15:13:50
In reply to Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by Racer on March 17, 2006, at 20:31:25
hmm, I don't really think of myself as being a label. But I think Id be more content with life and myself if I knew how to manage things diferently, in a more productive way. I don't think that really answered your question though.
Posted by Racer on March 18, 2006, at 15:19:34
In reply to Re: Who would you be without your psychopathology? » Racer, posted by fairywings on March 18, 2006, at 14:32:42
I think we're on different pages on this, and it's such a befuddling thing for me that I really want to hear what you'd say. What I was hoping for was who you would be once that happened? Do you know?
I'm very ambivalent about giving up my identity as anorexic -- despite being at a normal weight right now, that's still how I feel. Part of me wants to give it up, because it just takes so much time! Part of me wants to give it up, because even though it's how I identify myself, I still don't want other people to know. (Isn't that telling?) But even though there are those parts that want to be done with it, there is also a big part of me that needs to hold on to it, and part of that is that I'm afraid of who I might be without it. I don't know who that is. I don't know who I would be without this piece of me.
And the anorexic part of me is so caught up in that whole Calvinistic belief system I grew up with -- If I'm not hungry, it's because I've given in to gluttony; if I'm not slightly chilly, I'm being self-indulgent and wasteful by turning up the heat too high; if I am relaxed, I'm not working hard enough. All that fits so well with anorexia, that it's probably no wonder I am as I am. I guess I'm afraid that, without the anorexia to help me maintain (and prove) my drive and energy and self-control, I'll be revealed as a sluglike, miserable, useless, failure of a nothing.
Man -- that was hard to write. Guess I hit a nerve there.
Anyway, if you did get rid of all that baggage, all the headaches, fears, stresses, anxieties -- who would you be, on your fairy wings?
Posted by fairywings on March 18, 2006, at 16:03:32
In reply to Re: Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by Racer on March 18, 2006, at 15:19:34
>>Part of me wants to give it up, because even though it's how I identify myself, I still don't want other people to know. (Isn't that telling?)
**I don't know about anyone else, but I tend to hide a lot of my true self from others - the parts I find weak or unacceptable. Isn't that pretty normal? I don't know.
>>But even though there are those parts that want to be done with it, there is also a big part of me that needs to hold on to it, and part of that is that I'm afraid of who I might be without it. I don't know who that is. I don't know who I would be without this piece of me.
**Is that all a part of the ability to be in control? And if you gave that up, who would be in control, or would you just have to find control in another way, or be okay w/o being in control?
>
> And the anorexic part of me is so caught up in that whole Calvinistic belief system I grew up with -- I'll be revealed as a sluglike, miserable, useless, failure of a nothing.**Ooo, never thought about this too much - the Calvanistic views - that's so harsh to actually read it! I think I am all the things you fear you'll be revealed to be, but I don't know why I think that way.
> Man -- that was hard to write. Guess I hit a nerve there.
**Yeah, I bet it was! Ouch!!!
> Anyway, if you did get rid of all that baggage, all the headaches, fears, stresses, anxieties -- who would you be, on your fairy wings?**I guess someone I like better - stronger, nicer, smarter, more accomplished. Someone else, I guess?
fw
Posted by wishingstar on March 18, 2006, at 20:50:39
In reply to Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by Racer on March 17, 2006, at 20:31:25
Great question..
Sometimes I'd love to give up my "issues" (mainly depression with some self-destructive habits thrown in).. but other times, I know I'm not ready to give it up. It has become a part of who I am. I've discussed this with my T many times. I think that I only really allow myself to be needy or ask for support from anyone (myself included) when things are really, really bad... so if I'm content and doing well, I miss the self-support and support from others that most people get on a regular basis. Because I wont let myself take it. Even though I understand that, I havent figured out how to let it go, no matter how dumb it is. Sometimes I actually miss feeling depressed when I've been doing well for several weeks.. I hate that.
I've definitely let it become part of my identity for myself.
Posted by special_k on March 18, 2006, at 22:08:18
In reply to Re: Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by wishingstar on March 18, 2006, at 20:50:39
um...
god?
no wait...
thats with my pathology
<joke>
Posted by Racer on March 18, 2006, at 23:05:25
In reply to Re: Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by special_k on March 18, 2006, at 22:08:18
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on March 18, 2006, at 23:10:29
In reply to Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by Racer on March 17, 2006, at 20:31:25
I don't know that I necessarily want to give up my pathologies. I think I'd rather quiet them down a little....
I think of it as the volume on a stereo. When the dial is turned up, I am anxious, depressed, self-loathing, and passive. When the dial is turned to the right level, I am a person of sensitive moods, humble, and respectful of the needs of others.
So it is sort of a continuum. My best and worst traits are one in the same. To totally give them up would be to sacrifice my identity, but to hang on to them too tightly is to suffer.
Make sense?
Best,
EE
Posted by milly on March 19, 2006, at 12:44:43
In reply to Re: Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by Emily Elizabeth on March 18, 2006, at 23:10:29
Yep that made sense to me, I thought i remembered a milly prior to the pdocs & T's getting involved and I thought she was a different milly but now I see that it was just a different intesity of pathology.
I was always enthusiastic, bouncy & out going or low, avoidant and self depretiating but with the ?BP that translates into completly over the top, angry and obsessive or depressed, moribund and suicidal.
So i guess it is just milly!
Posted by Dinah on March 19, 2006, at 14:42:52
In reply to Re: Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by Emily Elizabeth on March 18, 2006, at 23:10:29
Utterly brilliantly said.
And it echoes my own philosophy about people. That their worst traits and their best traits are flip sides of the same thing.
And of course the words of that famous philosopher, James T. Kirk. "(Pain) is what defines us... it's what makes us who we are. We lose this, we lose ourselves! I don't want you to take away my pain... I NEED my pain!"
Posted by special_k on March 19, 2006, at 17:12:35
In reply to *snort* {must be channeling GG} (nm) » special_k, posted by Racer on March 18, 2006, at 23:05:25
yes of course!
i'd be a spirit guide, a medium, or a witch :-)
Posted by pegasus on March 20, 2006, at 9:12:38
In reply to Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by Racer on March 17, 2006, at 20:31:25
At the moment, I think without my psychopathology (if that's what we must call it), I'd be nobody. Not in a bad way. I just mean that I don't think there's anyone else very well formed in there. In a way it means that I could become anyone. So, maybe I should say that under my psychopathology, I'm a collection of potential.
I was thinking this as I was driving to work through the snow today: Here's a body driving to a job. The body is not me, and the job is not me . . .
Hope that doesn't sound too crazy.
peg
Posted by Racer on March 20, 2006, at 11:26:18
In reply to Re: Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by pegasus on March 20, 2006, at 9:12:38
Doesn't sound crazy at all -- but sounds scary as heck to me.
That's another little insight, how intolerant I am of uncertainty. (I do know it, but forget it over and over and over...) The idea of being unformed potential is just too scary.
Of course, at my age, some of this Me will stick around forever. Even if I really and truly and to the depths of my psyche get over all this, I'll still be, in part, this Me.
And as I write this, it occurs to me that what I want to be, under this, is the person who comes out when I teach. That's who I'd like to be. I wonder if that's someone I can be?
Posted by pegasus on March 20, 2006, at 20:00:08
In reply to Re: Who would you be without your psychopathology? » pegasus, posted by Racer on March 20, 2006, at 11:26:18
Is it scary because you're afraid you won't live up to the full measure of that potential? That's kind of what was coming out in the test obsession thing.
I can relate to that. I've definitely had my share of angst over wasting my "potential".
Lately, though, I see that potential as a pretty good thing. It means I have a lot of freedom.
I guess how I view the potential varies with how well aligned my current life is with what I want it to be. Lately things are good (ish) because I have this amazing little baby in my life, and I'm taking classes that I love, and I've scaled back on work (which I don't love).
I'll project my process onto you, so I can wish you alignment. :)
peg
Posted by B2chica on March 22, 2006, at 9:39:25
In reply to Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by Racer on March 17, 2006, at 20:31:25
excellent question and discussion. i think we've all asked ourselves that question.
i think after i got my diagnosis i did let it define me. but what i'm finding is that it's now helping my true self come out.
i think i altered myself in a way of self-fixing and now that i have the diagnosis and therapy i'm feeling safe to let my true feelings out and letting a little part of me be free again. and in hopes that with hard work i will completely come out, or as much as i want to. instead of keeping me locked inside me.i think my depression is also personality and instead of hiding it, i'm now able to let it out and just be.
i think part of our dx is who we are but expressed in a wrong direction. with medication and therapy, we can redirect and learn to express freely who we really are.
b2c.
Posted by milly on March 22, 2006, at 12:32:50
In reply to Re: Who would you be without your psychopathology?, posted by B2chica on March 22, 2006, at 9:39:25
nicely put
milly
This is the end of the thread.
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