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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Susan47 on January 24, 2006, at 23:52:45
Are you a person with a personality disorder?
I think I am. I think I've been fighting with this beast my whole life.
I wish I didn't have to talk about it in those terms. I wish I weren't that person.
I wish what happened with my therapist, which was probably all in my mind (I still wonder about that, about how I could misinterpret so much.. did I? I certainly sound like someone who did) ... I wish I hadn't been so intensely and horribly triggered into expressing this complete personality disorder. I don't know what it was, yet; most likely a mishmash of every disorder known to psychiatry.
I acted it all out, all this horrible angst and showed a complete and utter disrespect for sanity, for the ordered side of myself. The side which Can adapt, the side which Can learn, the side which is wiser from experience.
So much poison was spewed forth; I hurt who knows how many people because I became caught up in my own inner material. I allowed too much, and this poor therapist, he allowed too much too. He just had no idea I was so disordered, I guess. I didn't know, I mean I just didn't know.
I didn't know.
I just honestly had no effing idea I would behave so badly. How does a person know what's going to trigger them into behaving insanely? I guess you know if you're sane. Maybe it's really when you're insane that you don't know. I mean, I didn't know. I knew but I didn't know. It's so strange. I knew I was letting go and acting out, I knew that. I knew I was hurting and embarrassing myself and causing irreparable damage to my relationship with this T. I couldn't stop, I didn't want to, and it got to the point where I didn't particularly care who I was hurting.
I was a monster, I was monstrous and I allowed it. I let it keep happening, and now I see I was so sick with something, but what was it? I mean, how could I walk around so many years knowing something was the matter, something was wrong, but needing to act it all out, all the craziness that was inside me ... and then one day just finding this person who let me go to the nth degree, letting me get away with it .. how did I know he would .. until he didn't? And then when he finally and ultimately wouldn't allow it anymore, I straightened up. I mean, it was crisis majorly, it was a major crisis but I got over it and now I can see this .. person that I was. I don't think I can even ever read any of the things I used to post, because I know how crazy they all sound.
They were, though. That's the thing. They really were crazy, but they weren't dumb. They ignored a lot of truths, but they weren't stupid. The mes that were all in there clamouring to get out. I want only one me to be here, in the end, though. For the next forty years, that would be nice. To live another forty years with just one me.
How do you tell someone how sorry you are about the way you used to be? I don't know. I always knew what I was doing would be permanent. It's terribly sad. Here's this poor person walking around thinking he's helped damage an already damaged person. When she's okay. She just used what was given to her to use. She used it well. She's not resting, yet, but she got over the hump. She thinks. She's pretty sure.
It's so sad, really.
Posted by Susan47 on January 25, 2006, at 0:10:32
In reply to Personality Disorder, Personal, posted by Susan47 on January 24, 2006, at 23:52:45
I mean, I didn't use it well. I used what happened and managed to get well. It seems a bit soon to be saying that I'm well. But if I can see behind me and I feel different, then doesn't that mean there's been a change? For the better? If my children are truly and genuinely happy and secure, and if I've managed to repair so much other stuff in my life, if my friends and I truly love each other and are good to everyone, if I can make a positive difference in the lives of everyone who has contact with me, how can that not be good?
Posted by Susan47 on January 25, 2006, at 0:11:45
In reply to Sorry, really, posted by Susan47 on January 25, 2006, at 0:10:32
I know, I probably sound obsessive/compulsive. But I'm just thinking out loud. That's all.
Posted by muffled on January 25, 2006, at 14:37:17
In reply to Not everyone. Not everyone. But many., posted by Susan47 on January 25, 2006, at 0:11:45
Susan this is muffled i been reading your stuff awhile. I felt real bad for you the last little while. But you been sounding better lately. Your a nice person I can tell. I am SO glad you over the hump. Hope you can find some helpful help along the way. You sound WAY better.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by James K on January 25, 2006, at 22:20:00
In reply to Personality Disorder, Personal, posted by Susan47 on January 24, 2006, at 23:52:45
Hey, I'm here. Long story. Things are good. Now on to your post.
If by personality disorder, you mean borderline, or anti-social, or sociopath, or whatever, what I think is those are extremely harsh and dangerous diagnosis to be throwing around on people.
Also, you were seeing a therapist. That means something was wrong by definition almost. How can you be guilty because in the course of trying to fix your mental illness your mental illness manifested itself?
Don't read your old posts. They were full of the anguish you were experiencing right then. You can remember without re-experiencing. The best way to thank or apologize to people for being sick is to do your best to remain well. Surgeons don't require apologies from cancer patients.
I hope I'm not oversimplifying. That isn't my intention. You've been through way too much lately, and if you've found some peace, savor it.
love and happiness,
james K
Posted by Susan47 on January 26, 2006, at 0:58:22
In reply to Re: Not everyone. Not everyone. But many. » Susan47, posted by muffled on January 25, 2006, at 14:37:17
> Susan this is muffled i been reading your stuff awhile. I felt real bad for you the last little while. But you been sounding better lately. Your a nice person I can tell. I am SO glad you over the hump. Hope you can find some helpful help along the way. You sound WAY better.
> Take care,
> Muffled
Thanks, Muffled. I feel a lot better, too. Your caring is really special to me!
Posted by Tamar on January 26, 2006, at 18:03:40
In reply to Re: Personality Disorder, Personal » Susan47, posted by James K on January 25, 2006, at 22:20:00
> Also, you were seeing a therapist. That means something was wrong by definition almost. How can you be guilty because in the course of trying to fix your mental illness your mental illness manifested itself?
I totally agree with you.
> Don't read your old posts. They were full of the anguish you were experiencing right then. You can remember without re-experiencing. The best way to thank or apologize to people for being sick is to do your best to remain well. Surgeons don't require apologies from cancer patients.
Exactly.
Susan, I really think James is making a lot of sense.
Also, of course you've never been stupid! You may have done some things that weren't in your best judgement, but you're clearly an intelligent and articulate woman.
Also... I don't think it was all in your mind. I do sometimes wonder if your *interpretation* of your T's look was more of a problem than the look itself. But that's probably about your past experience; it's certainly not a sign of insanity.
I'd guess (wildly and with no evidence for my ideas) that the look you experienced from your T was somehow connected in your mind with the experiences of rape you've described in your previous posts. I know that when I was in therapy I had rape fantasies about my therapist (which came out of nowhere and shocked me immensely).
My understanding of him as a man was always filtered through my experience of having been raped. Sometimes I was afraid of him; sometimes I wanted him. But mostly the transference was related to my experience with the guys who raped me.
It was all very weird and counter-intuitive. You'd think my transference would have been negative rather than erotic in the circumstances. And I wonder whether your transference for your ex-T might have been more negative....
Anyway, I didn't want to make this all about me. I just wondered if you maybe need to think about what your ex-T represents to you, rather than thinking about him as a person, because as a person he's no help to you (just like the men who raped you were no help to you as people).
I hope it's OK to have written all this stuff, and I hope I haven't offended you or anything like that. I'm always willing to apologise if I've said the wrong thing...
Take care,
Tamar
Posted by Susan47 on January 26, 2006, at 22:20:06
In reply to Re: Personality Disorder (***trigger***) » Susan47, posted by Tamar on January 26, 2006, at 18:03:40
> Susan, I really think James is making a lot of sense.
>
> Also, of course you've never been stupid! You may have done some things that weren't in your best judgement, but you're clearly an intelligent and articulate woman.
>
A few years ago it would've been a surprise to hear that. Sometime in the last couple of years I changed my opinion about myself, along with my acceptance of my manic/depressive side. I don't know how severe either one really is. I don't think I'm severe enough to be hospitalised and I hope it stays that way. I think I've learned some coping skills, and along the way in learning those I've made some bad decisions, yes. It would've been nice if I'd had a therapist who could deal with someone in real distress. I realize now that the man I had just couldn't do that. He fell into distress, himself and made some mistakes along the way. I was stubborn and wouldn't let go or give up or stop. It just felt too painful, I absolutely couldn't deal with it all. Everything was too much. Everything in my life was crashing down, absolutely everything.> Also... I don't think it was all in your mind. I do sometimes wonder if your *interpretation* of your T's look was more of a problem than the look itself. But that's probably about your past experience; it's certainly not a sign of insanity.
>
I don't understand how, really, my interpretation was more of a problem than the look. Quite frankly, I wouldn't have had the interpretation that I did have, had the look not been so openly fascinated with my breasts. In actual point of fact, I had thought the look was comical, in a way, because it was so openly lustful. It was funny, like my breasts weren't really part of me, they were something he was attracted to all on their own. It was funny. You don't see men with that look very often ... they usually know how to cover it up really well. Which makes me wonder why he wasn't trying, so hard, to do that. But I also realize that the looks meant nothing, or would have been signals, were I in any other relationship with him. I wasn't, though, I was in a therapeutic alliance, or supposedly so ... I'll bet he does this a lot, actually. But it's not my worry. And I don't know that that's true, in any case. I only know what happened in there when I was with him.> I'd guess (wildly and with no evidence for my ideas) that the look you experienced from your T was somehow connected in your mind with the experiences of rape you've described in your previous posts. I know that when I was in therapy I had rape fantasies about my therapist (which came out of nowhere and shocked me immensely).
>
> My understanding of him as a man was always filtered through my experience of having been raped. Sometimes I was afraid of him; sometimes I wanted him. But mostly the transference was related to my experience with the guys who raped me.
>
> It was all very weird and counter-intuitive. You'd think my transference would have been negative rather than erotic in the circumstances. And I wonder whether your transference for your ex-T might have been more negative....
>
I don't know exactly what you might mean by "more negative", maybe you could explain a bit more. But the thing about having erotic transference was true for me as well, and I think the anger and the eroticism were mixed to pretty high level, I think they fed off each other, in a way. In any case, I experienced the same feelings you're talking about. I have no doubt my past experiences with men fueled my transference, in fact I think it's inevitable that it would have happened that way. What I don't forgive and won't ever forget, is that the T let me down, as a human being. He let me be afraid of him.> Anyway, I didn't want to make this all about me. I just wondered if you maybe need to think about what your ex-T represents to you, rather than thinking about him as a person, because as a person he's no help to you (just like the men who raped you were no help to you as people).
>
> I hope it's OK to have written all this stuff, and I hope I haven't offended you or anything like that. I'm always willing to apologise if I've said the wrong thing...
>
> Take care,
> Tamar
>
>
>
Posted by muffled on January 26, 2006, at 22:50:27
In reply to Re: Personality Disorder (***trigger***) » Tamar, posted by Susan47 on January 26, 2006, at 22:20:06
Posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2006, at 19:37:12
In reply to Re: Personality Disorder (***trigger***) » Susan47, posted by Tamar on January 26, 2006, at 18:03:40
I really appreciated what you had to say, please don't worry about setting me off or triggering me. I try hard to keep my thoughts positive, even when things are tough.
Posted by damos on January 27, 2006, at 20:24:00
In reply to Personality Disorder, Personal, posted by Susan47 on January 24, 2006, at 23:52:45
Hey Susan :-)
Just wanted to say that I'm really proud of you. I remember a coach once saying to me that I'd made a bunch of bad decisions and mistakes and generally played really badly but I didn't give up on myself and that that was what really mattered in the end. Well you never never gave up on you! It's been a long hard road but I think in the last month or so you've really turned a corner and I'm jut really proud of you for hanging in there and tuffing it out. Always believed you'd get there, but I admit it was hard to watch and read at times. You're a dear and wonderful friend Susan and I really hope things just get better and better for you.
(((((Susan)))))
Posted by gardenergirl on January 27, 2006, at 20:33:37
In reply to Re: Personality Disorder, Personal » Susan47, posted by damos on January 27, 2006, at 20:24:00
Posted by 10derHeart on January 28, 2006, at 0:09:51
In reply to ditto what Damos said (nm), posted by gardenergirl on January 27, 2006, at 20:33:37
Posted by B2chica on January 28, 2006, at 13:08:06
In reply to Re: Personality Disorder, Personal » Susan47, posted by damos on January 27, 2006, at 20:24:00
Hi Susan. don't you dare be hard on yourself. you've struggled but you've never given up on yourself and that alone is amazing, not to mention all you have been through.
i think you are a lot stronger than you let yourself believe.
rape effects a person in so many ways they can't be counted. and i agree with damos and Tamar.please be gentle with yourself.
cares
b2c.> Hey Susan :-)
>
> Just wanted to say that I'm really proud of you. I remember a coach once saying to me that I'd made a bunch of bad decisions and mistakes and generally played really badly but I didn't give up on myself and that that was what really mattered in the end. Well you never never gave up on you! It's been a long hard road but I think in the last month or so you've really turned a corner and I'm jut really proud of you for hanging in there and tuffing it out. Always believed you'd get there, but I admit it was hard to watch and read at times. You're a dear and wonderful friend Susan and I really hope things just get better and better for you.
>
> (((((Susan)))))
Posted by Susan47 on January 28, 2006, at 22:19:53
In reply to Re: Personality Disorder, Personal, posted by B2chica on January 28, 2006, at 13:08:06
I'm completely humbled by the way you all hung in there with me. I kind of think there must have been a few times when what I wrote, I mean if I were to look back at it now, would make me feel really fearful, again. I don't know, I don't intend to look, for a long time and maybe forever.
Anyway, thanks guys. I guess bad decisions can eventually lead to good ones, or something .. I mean, a decision in itself is a start. Now I'm just deciding to be healthy. Whole, one person, one mind, aware and as alert as possible what with the mental disabilities I kind of tend towards at times ... I don't know, I think disabilities can be made useful, into abilities. It's just learning how to do that. How to make the most of who a person is, towards the good, not the negative. Sheesh.
Posted by muffled on January 30, 2006, at 12:27:34
In reply to You guys ..., posted by Susan47 on January 28, 2006, at 22:19:53
Ah, you beautiful Susan.
Posted by Susan47 on January 30, 2006, at 20:58:58
In reply to Re: You guys ..., posted by muffled on January 30, 2006, at 12:27:34
Ah, you beautiful Muffled.
This is the end of the thread.
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