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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by med_empowered on December 10, 2005, at 20:50:32
hi! Here's my story: I'm 21 now, going back to school and off all medications, doing pretty well. Last year, when I was 20, I was hearing voices (possibly a bipolar psychotic depressive episode; also, possibly, just a psychotic depression episode of the unipolar type). Anyway, I went to a therapist who diagnosed me as schizophrenic but..it wasn't a "diagnosis" in the real sense. No one who knew me accepted it (except my parents, who were relieved to know that my problems "weren't their fault"). I didn't fit most of the criteria--he squeezed me in using "negative symptoms," and claimed I also had poor hygiene (even though I bathe daily).
Anyway, long story short--it was terrible. Once the "diagnosis" was made, my personal life didn't matter. He basically told me to take my meds, quit worrying about school or grad school (I guess since schizophrenics generally don't go to grad school) and just focus on getting an OK job. I was always reading, and he was impressed by this--like, "oh, the crazy can read?!?!"
The antipsychotic made me feel like a zombie. It also made me even more anxious, so my social anxiety got so bad I had to quit school. He didn't "believe" in sleeping pills (not even trazadone) or anti-anxiety meds, and would subtly accuse me of being "manipulative" whenever I told him how afraid of life I was. Its taken me a long time to a) get a more or less correct diagnosis (maybe BP II, more likely Mood Disorder NOS) b) withdraw from the antipsychotics and reclaim my personality and c) restructure my relationship with my parents, so they can't just dismiss me as "the crazy kid".
Anyway, this guy is local, and I just kind of stopped seeing him one day. I feel like maybe I should make an appointment, and just break it down for him--this is what you did to me. I'm doing OK now, but I want you to know that you were and are wrong, and I want you to know that I've told ***everyone*** I can how incompetent and judgemental and unhelpful you are. Most of all...I want an apology for your abuse of power. I was at my weakest, and I feel like he further weakened me, almost obliterating my personality with antipsychotics.
What do you y'all think? I know it sounds mean, vengeful, but...why should I just "let it go" ? If I can do this calmly and matter-of-factly, shouldn't I let him know how damaging his "therapy" was for me? I feel it could be cathartic.
Posted by one woman cine on December 10, 2005, at 21:29:18
In reply to Confront an old, bad shrink?, posted by med_empowered on December 10, 2005, at 20:50:32
I can relate to your anger. I wanted to confront a bad therapist I had, but as it has been pointed out to me, she would just say "poor thing, she's still not well, still perseverating about all this". I don't want to give her any ammunition.
The destructive therapy I had at her hands makes me feel impotent, in that I can't express it to her. But bad doctors aren't going to care (unless you sue) and good doctors realize they made a mistake, wish they could've done it differently, but it's just too late to do anything about it.
I'd ask myself, what do you hope to accomplish, what do want to get out of it of confronting him? Really, really. B/c I have also found that confronting someone isn't necessarily cathartic, it doesn't heal the pain or take away the anger. Are you in therapy now, talking to a good therapist can help. But living a happy life is the best revenge.
Posted by vwoolf on December 10, 2005, at 21:32:04
In reply to Confront an old, bad shrink?, posted by med_empowered on December 10, 2005, at 20:50:32
Gosh, your post brought up a lot of things for me. I understand how angry and wounded you must feel. I was sexually molested by a psychiatrist many years ago, and I think if he were still alive I would want to do something to hurt him. Fortunately I don't have that option.
I think you should be very careful about having a face to face confrontation with this pdoc. He is in a position of strength in the relationship between you two. I am sure he will deny any mistakes or negligence, and you will end up feeling doubly abused. If you must do something, do it in writing or via a third party.
Sorry, I may sound dogmatic, but I think the important thing is to protect you against someone who has already demonstrated his ability to hurt you. Don't let him do it again.
Posted by Racer on December 10, 2005, at 22:32:37
In reply to Re: Confront an old, bad shrink? » med_empowered, posted by vwoolf on December 10, 2005, at 21:32:04
I know, because I want to confront Dr EyeCandy, the guy who was allegedly treating me last year. The guy who watched me lose a third of my body weight, and still wrote I was "well nourished" on my chart each time. The guy who was giving me 4mg of Xanax each night for sleep. The guy who had me turned away at the reception desk when I showed up for an appointment. You're getting the idea, right?
Anyway, I wanted to confront him, and still do, but you know what? A direct confrontation, no matter how much I think I want it, will not do anything good for me. All it can do is make things worse for me.
Here's what I did do, though:
1. I wrote a complaint to the state licensing board.
2. At the time, I was uninsured, so this was a county facility. I also wrote a complaint to the county department that oversees the facility.
3. Although it's not finished, I'm also writing a letter to him which I will NOT mail. In this letter, I'm trying to tell him ALL the things that I wish he could have been aware of, things that I think *should* show him how much damage he did to me. I hope that writing it, and I don't know, maybe burning it? I hope it will help exorcise some of the demons.
Basically, I think both of us are hoping that these fellows will say, 'Oh, you're right -- I screwed up! I'm so sorry.' They won't. That's just reality. They will never apologize.
In fact, they really can't apologize, because doing so leaves them open to legal liability -- if you sue them, and they've said, "gee, sorry," well, there's your case.
Good luck, but I suggest a new therapist, rather than confronting this guy.
(By the way, if you read above, I've got something about this above in my thread.)
Posted by med_empowered on December 11, 2005, at 0:01:11
In reply to Similar story here -- DO NOT confront him, posted by Racer on December 10, 2005, at 22:32:37
I still havent made up my mind. A very mentally sound friend of mine (my best friend, actually) suggested I make an appointment, and that we both see him. Together. Then, calmly, in a cool, even-handed manner, just explain to him that his "treatment" was utterly unproductive--in fact, it was downright harmful. The idea isn't so much to get an apology, I guess...I don't expect one. I think the idea is to show him that "patients" are **PEOPLE**, too--to just tell him what he did, and that now I'm doing fine, thanks...and that I think he is utterly incompetent, and I am going to tell everyone I know this. I'm not seeing anyone yet, but I will, soon; its a very small area, so if I can find a decent therapist who sees whats happened...hopefully that will also help him see that sometimes patients talk back.
I'm still deliberating...I'll just have to see what happens.
Posted by allisonross on December 11, 2005, at 10:07:31
In reply to Confront an old, bad shrink?, posted by med_empowered on December 10, 2005, at 20:50:32
> hi! Hi!
I believe in "restorative justice" This is what you did...this is how it made me feel."
Empowering.
It matters NOT what think or feel about what you are saying. It is about how YOU feel about what they did.
It isn't "mean" or vengeful to tell someone how what they did....made you feel.
I have 2 thoughts (since I don't know him)...if may not be safe to make an appointment with him alone; perhaps if you could go with someone--an advocate, who could keep the situation safe for you.
He might be abusive and attack you verbally.
If not that, then I would write a letter and tell him EXACTLY how you feel.
That way, you wont get interrupted with his stuff, and feel you need to explain/protect yourself.
As an aside, my t takes men out of prison and into his office, and has children confront them with what they did. So empowering, and of course, he is right there, to make sure things are handled properly, and the child is safe to say what they need to without interruption, excuses or explanation.
Restorative justice isn't about THEM, or hoping for an apology or understanding or validation from the perpetrator (well it IS, but there cannot be any expectation of that, when you confront someone).
It's NOT about their feelings.....It is about YOUR feelings at what was done to you.
It's about what YOU need to do for yourself.
Hugs, Ally
Here's my story: I'm 21 now, going back to school and off all medications, doing pretty well. Last year, when I was 20, I was hearing voices (possibly a bipolar psychotic depressive episode; also, possibly, just a psychotic depression episode of the unipolar type). Anyway, I went to a therapist who diagnosed me as schizophrenic but..it wasn't a "diagnosis" in the real sense. No one who knew me accepted it (except my parents, who were relieved to know that my problems "weren't their fault"). I didn't fit most of the criteria--he squeezed me in using "negative symptoms," and claimed I also had poor hygiene (even though I bathe daily).
>
> Anyway, long story short--it was terrible. Once the "diagnosis" was made, my personal life didn't matter. He basically told me to take my meds, quit worrying about school or grad school (I guess since schizophrenics generally don't go to grad school) and just focus on getting an OK job. I was always reading, and he was impressed by this--like, "oh, the crazy can read?!?!"
>
> The antipsychotic made me feel like a zombie. It also made me even more anxious, so my social anxiety got so bad I had to quit school. He didn't "believe" in sleeping pills (not even trazadone) or anti-anxiety meds, and would subtly accuse me of being "manipulative" whenever I told him how afraid of life I was. Its taken me a long time to a) get a more or less correct diagnosis (maybe BP II, more likely Mood Disorder NOS) b) withdraw from the antipsychotics and reclaim my personality and c) restructure my relationship with my parents, so they can't just dismiss me as "the crazy kid".
>
> Anyway, this guy is local, and I just kind of stopped seeing him one day. I feel like maybe I should make an appointment, and just break it down for him--this is what you did to me. I'm doing OK now, but I want you to know that you were and are wrong, and I want you to know that I've told ***everyone*** I can how incompetent and judgemental and unhelpful you are. Most of all...I want an apology for your abuse of power. I was at my weakest, and I feel like he further weakened me, almost obliterating my personality with antipsychotics.
>
> What do you y'all think? I know it sounds mean, vengeful, but...why should I just "let it go" ? If I can do this calmly and matter-of-factly, shouldn't I let him know how damaging his "therapy" was for me? I feel it could be cathartic.
Posted by med_empowered on December 11, 2005, at 10:32:26
In reply to Re: Confront an old, bad shrink? » med_empowered, posted by allisonross on December 11, 2005, at 10:07:31
I think you're right...what you're describing ("resotrative justice") is really what I'm after. Maybe it won't prove "cathartic," but I'm thinking that if done well it could prove somehow...satisfying. My best friend offered to go with me; she's calm, cool, collected, and incredibly articulate. What I want isn't necessarily an apology or "revenge" or anything like that, really...I think what I'm after is having the tables turned. I want to shift the balance of power so now he has to face me not as a patient (b/c after this 1 "session" I'll be seeing someone else, of course), but rather as a **person**, one who has been adversely affected by his "therapy" and who is no longer afraid to stand up. Its kind of like a term I discovered reading about politics..."speaking truth to power"
Thanks again.
Posted by gardenergirl on December 11, 2005, at 16:47:30
In reply to restorative justice, posted by med_empowered on December 11, 2005, at 10:32:26
> I think you're right...what you're describing ("resotrative justice") is really what I'm after. Maybe it won't prove "cathartic," but I'm thinking that if done well it could prove somehow...satisfying.
Sometimes we need to take steps to express our hurt or outrage, even if we know darn well that the other person will not be moved by our expression. For me, I once confronted my supervisor about something. My T really tried to discourage me, because he felt it would not amount to anything. I told him that I really NEEDED to do this, because it was a step towards self-validating my feelings, which I otherwise tended to doubt. So confronting meant that I was in no doubt about what I felt, and I was confident enough about it to express it, even knowing that my supervisor likely would not see it that way.
Maybe you and I will have other similar situations where we won't feel the need to confront, because we can validate our feelings without that step. I think there are other times when it's too important. I think the bottom line is what will it do for you? If you will benefit from it, go for it, but be safe. Like ally said, go in without any expectation of relief or reponse, but revel in expressing yourself.
Good luck whatever you decide. And know that we hear you here. And we support you.
gg
Posted by sleepygirl on December 11, 2005, at 17:03:45
In reply to Confront an old, bad shrink?, posted by med_empowered on December 10, 2005, at 20:50:32
Hey,
I'd like to say that I too have some anger at a pdoc who was well...pretty condascending actually
He sort of talked to me in that way that you might talk to small children or maybe puppies.
When he finally switched me to my second antidepressant (Effexor XR) which I am still on. he said pretty much "Well this is the last thing we can try now". It made me feel like it was my fault. It's not like I was terribly high maintenance, gosh I have to be cajoled into really asking for things or making any kind of demands, but I was still anxious and depressed so I guess I wasn't "cooperating" or being a "good patient". It made me want to sink into a hole again and just go on suffering - like oh well I guess I failed at this too. He too was wary of the benzos, which despite their abuse potential are quite effective when used appropriately.I am quite shocked actually by your story because I've always thought that the diagnosis of schizophrenia took some serious consideration, and I certainly know that psychotic symptoms definitely do not = schizophrenia. It was my understanding as well that a certain period of time had to pass after a first psychotic episode to see what developed before that diagnosis could/should be made. It's a serious, chronic, life long psychiatric condition after all that should not be applied lightly. (not that bipolar or other disorders can't be, but it is different in presentation and treatment)
It is certainly demoralizing, frustrating and infuriating to be considered "manipulative" when you're just trying to get your needs met. The thing is that you can't convince people that you are just being sincere if they just don't want to believe you. If only anxiety and/or depression were simple and easy to deal with - but they most certainly are not!! The last thing I need is for some condascending fool to pat me on the head like some idiot dog. Sorry, I'm just angry I guess and disappointed for us both.
Anyway, I've fantasized about throwing rocks at this guy's window and stuff, but I guess the best revenge is believing in yourself, finding someone who LISTENS and PAYS ATTENTION and is NOT DISMISSIVE - sorry for the large type accents, but I think it's basic and incredibly important.
-all the best,
sleepygirl
Posted by tryagain on December 12, 2005, at 8:33:01
In reply to Confront an old, bad shrink?, posted by med_empowered on December 10, 2005, at 20:50:32
I know it sounds mean, vengeful, but...why should I just "let it go" ? If I can do this calmly and matter-of-factly, shouldn't I let him know how damaging his "therapy" was for me? I feel it could be cathartic.
Med: I had a similar experience with an ex-pdoc.
I was with him for awhile and I found my new pdoc just by chance. I truely feel a big part of my symptoms with the old pdoc were due to the side effects of the meds. The more I work with the new pdoc, the more I am convinced the meds prescibed by the old pdoc were a big part of the problem. I am now on less meds and I am dong so much better.
I thought of going back to the old pdoc and tell him what he did and how the treatment affected myself and my family. I decided not to confront him. I have dealt with two other docs who have the same trait as the old pdoc --- arrogance aka not listening to the patient. The other two docs
were in physical medicine. When I got a second opinion in physical medicine, the new doc used lab tests to confirm the new diagnosis. The big difference I see in mental health and physical health is there are tests in phsical health that are objective; there are no objective tests in mental health (at least for the mental symptons I was suppose to have). If I went back to confront the pdoc about his treatment, I truely feel he would not have listened to me. I was not going to pay for an appointment to tell him how badly he handled my case, since I now view all the money I spent with him was wasted money.
This is what I have done to let out my feelings, I wrote a note to the old pdoc. Almost every other word in the note would be considered TOSable on this forum.. I burnt the letter and I stomped on the letter as hard as I could to get my anger out. I have burnt more then one letter.
I have touched on the old pdoc with my new pdoc. The one thing that took me so long to do with my new pdoc was to feel he believed me when I discussed my symptoms.
I hope you find a way of releasing your anger that works for you.
Posted by med_empowered on December 12, 2005, at 17:44:15
In reply to Re: Confront an old, bad shrink? » med_empowered, posted by sleepygirl on December 11, 2005, at 17:03:45
After my experience with this awful therapist, who decided I was "schizophrenic," and stretched the diagnostic criteria to the breaking point to fit me into that category, I've come to realize that what psychiatric survivors, anti-psychiatry activists, etc. say is true: diagnosis can be used to manipulate, degrade, and discredit people.
The diagnosis of "schizophrenia" skewed the doc-patient relationship so that he was in much, much more power than I was; suddenly, he felt comfortable presuming to pass judgement over my life and act as if he knew more about me than I knew about myself--afterall, I was "schizophrenic" and needed all the help I could get, right?So now, I'm careful about diagnosis. I'm also careful about trusting a therapist too soon or opening up too much early on. Most of all, I'm more sensitive to the power imbalance in the therapist-patient relationship.
This is the end of the thread.
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