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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Tamar on December 8, 2005, at 6:50:07
In reply to Called my T, feel stupid now, posted by Voce on December 8, 2005, at 0:57:50
> The past few days I've been having moments of intense longing and weakness. I think of my former (male) T all the time, remember certain spots on campus where I saw him. I can't call him, though. He's made that abundantly clear. I've written him once in the last few months and got a very cool, careful, short answer. So that door is obviously closed.
I’m sorry he isn’t more forthcoming. I suppose he doesn’t want to hurt you, but of course it’s painful in any case.
> Well, she was in her office!! She seemed happy to hear from me, and mentioned that although she was meeting with a student, she would be happy to call me back. I tried to say goodbye and hang up but she kept asking me questions. But it sounds like she is going to call me back.....
I’m so glad that she was happy to hear from you! And that she said she would call you back. I don’t think it was at all weak of you to call her; on the contrary, I think that took a lot of courage.
> I am scared, you guys. I don't want to be a bother to her, or put her in a position where she's going to have to shake me loose later. I don't want her to think that I'm dependent and needy. I am scared that she is going to be like T1, who gave me all the signals that it would be okay to call and write post-termination, and then abruptly changed the rules. I don't want to do anything wrong, or take advantage of her.
I think I’d say: be up front with her. Tell her what your worries are. Then she’ll be able to tell you exactly what you can expect from her. And then you’ll know and you won’t have to try to guess.
> And I feel dumb for calling. Really, exceedingly dumb. I just wanted that connection so bad. Part of me thinks that since she is my last connection to therapy, and therefore my first T, who I was (am?) desperately in love with, that this is my way of trying to re-establish that connection with T1, although I can't imagine how.
You are definitely not dumb. You needed to reach out and you did. I don’t see anything dumb there. And yes, I can imagine that calling her was like trying to re-establish the connection with T1. That makes sense.
> I'm pathetic. I'm going to bed now. Tamar, can I share that 2nd bottle of wine with you???
You can share the wine; of course. But you’re not pathetic.
I hope she calls you soon.
Tamar
Posted by happyflower on December 8, 2005, at 10:09:10
In reply to Not stupid » Voce, posted by Tamar on December 8, 2005, at 6:50:07
You know I did the exact same thing a few weeks ago. I just wanted to connect with him, I was struggling with missing him so much since we started to space our session a month a part. I never called him before just to connect. I was worried about him too since I didn't see him at the gym. But instead of getting him, I got his machine, and left a pretty dumb sounding message on it to call me back. I even said, you don't HAVE to call me back, but I would like you to. I said I just wanted to touch base. I sounded like such an idiot, I even said that too on the machine.
But he called me back and was very nice and it seemed like he understood that I just wanted to connect with him. Then he asked me if I felt better since hearing his voice, I said yes as always. Then I said "it's pretty pathadic, huh."So it is okay to reach out, its okay to miss them, so just relax and know you aren't the only one who has done this! :)
Posted by Shortelise on December 8, 2005, at 13:06:17
In reply to Called my T, feel stupid now, posted by Voce on December 8, 2005, at 0:57:50
Could you talk with her about it? Tell her how much it means to you, all the feelings you wrote to us?
Voce, please be kind to yourself.
I send you a warm hug, dear Voce. If I were that T, I would welcome your calls, I would be so glad that you called; I would feel privileged to be trusted by you.
ShortE
Posted by muffled on December 8, 2005, at 13:11:36
In reply to Re: Not stupid, posted by happyflower on December 8, 2005, at 10:09:10
Sometimes I (I'd like to blame it on the kid, but I not 100% sure) anyhow sometimes I call my T office just to hear the very curt short message on the machine. I never leave a message, just want that little bit of voice. God now that IS MAJORLY pitiful. You got guts. So don't feel bad.
Ugh, I just thot, I hope they don't got call display!??? Aghhh. Sometimes I call 2-3x (its a VERY short message!)
There, now you can extort me for money over this.
Sh*t.
Muffled
Posted by fairywings on December 8, 2005, at 13:40:22
In reply to Called my T, feel stupid now, posted by Voce on December 8, 2005, at 0:57:50
I'm glad she was happy to hear from you. I hope you can tell her how you feel, and about your worries. You'll probably feel validated. It's too bad T1 has handled things in such a way that you're left feeling so bad. That's got to hurt terribly.
Hugs,
fw
Posted by 10derHeart on December 8, 2005, at 13:55:11
In reply to Called my T, feel stupid now, posted by Voce on December 8, 2005, at 0:57:50
I'm really glad you called her. Makes sense to me both rationally AND emotionally (whoo-hoo, both of those working together for once!)
As I go along this similar therapy-journey with you and everyone else, I'm realizing no matter HOW pathetic, stupid, needy or weird we feel or think we are at certain points, that making the connection, or trying our best to connect and reconnect (even when some Ts aren't up to it... :-( ), is pretty much *never* a mistake, bad, wrong or unhealthy.
Even when the response or lack thereof hurts for a while. Even then.
But the chance someone will respond like your T2 just did seems worth it.
I mean, the opposite can't be so good right? At least, not in the long term. Endless rumination, wondering what they'd say, worrying, isolating, denying your real feelings, and not doing anything about it? Most of us find ourselves in that space for longer or shorter periods (nothing wrong with that, either, perfectly human) but we then seem to feel pretty relieved, powerful in a good way and more settled once we DO reach out to them.
Keep going, Voce. Your instincts were/are good and you know what you need and what you can tolerate along the way to try to get it. Sounds like this T. have earned the benefit of the doubt, too. Try and give that to her.
Big hugs and encouragement from me!! ((Voce))
Posted by one woman cine on December 8, 2005, at 13:56:33
In reply to Called my T, feel stupid now, posted by Voce on December 8, 2005, at 0:57:50
I can relate to having a therapist who changes the rules. Things were unpredictable and it became even harder to trust anyone after that.
Are you in therapy now? A good therapist can really undo "bad" therapy & give you a sense of validation. It did for me. Although I'm still furious & it has helped me immensely (!) to hear someone say that what I'm feeling isn't too "off base" & pretty normal in fact. & her ability to look at things & take care of boundaries makes me realize what I was missing the entire time before.
Maybe, if you aren't in therapy, (I don't know, are you?) tentatively putting your toes in the "therapy waters" (so to speak) is really healthy and proactive, despite the treatment by T1. & I think shows a great deal of courage.
Even if you have terminated with T2, I think it's good to use her as resource. Don't ever feel bad about advocating for yourself, which it sounds like you are doing. Maybe she could be helpful in getting you a referral to a few therapists.
Posted by fallsfall on December 8, 2005, at 15:47:49
In reply to Hey Voce you don't know stupid.., posted by muffled on December 8, 2005, at 13:11:36
Muffled,
You mean some people *DON'T* call their therapist's answering machines just to hear their voice???
Posted by muffled on December 8, 2005, at 16:02:45
In reply to ??? » muffled, posted by fallsfall on December 8, 2005, at 15:47:49
Posted by Voce on December 8, 2005, at 16:44:11
In reply to Called my T, feel stupid now, posted by Voce on December 8, 2005, at 0:57:50
You are all so wonderful. I am truly humbled by how you have all rallied around me.
When she calls me back I am going to do my best to tell her how scared I am, and how I need some sort of definition to our quasi-relationship. Or if there won't be any definition, then I need to know that the rug won't get yanked out from under me.
But in the meantime, I reall appreciate how you've all validated me. I just really needed that encouragement. I need to be reminded that it's okay to have needs because I sometimes get this Stepford mentality that I can't feel anything, or need anything. I am only allowed to give.
And then there's the part of me that needs an "atta girl" once in awhile. Because I sure never got that when I was growing up, and I discovered that I would move heaven and earth for the man who would say that to me. T1 did all the time. And even though T2 is a woman, I think getting that validation through her is kind of like channeling T1.
Thank you for telling me that I'm brave. I needed that too.
Posted by 10derHeart on December 8, 2005, at 17:31:04
In reply to ??? » muffled, posted by fallsfall on December 8, 2005, at 15:47:49
Posted by Dinah on December 8, 2005, at 17:40:24
In reply to Hey Voce you don't know stupid.., posted by muffled on December 8, 2005, at 13:11:36
So much so that he no longer gets disturbed if I call him and don't leave a message, even multiple times.
Well, I probably don't do it *all* the time anymore. But I used to. :)
Posted by 10derHeart on December 8, 2005, at 18:22:13
In reply to I do it all the time » muffled, posted by Dinah on December 8, 2005, at 17:40:24
<grin>
Me, too. Probably not all the time, either. But enough, still.
Used to *always* use the "hide ID" option on my cell so his system wouldn't identify who the heck was calling and leaving no messages at all hours of the day and night.
But recently (after our email debacle), I don't even care if he knows any more.
After all, I told him weeks ago that I do it. Just like I later told him (though I can hardly choke this out without a total meltdown) that just seeing his name in my email Inbox - without ever even opening/reading the actual message - used to calm me down and make me feel soooo good. He responded to both by saying it was "almost scary" to be that important to anyone, but that he was honored and took his responsibility for those strong emotions very seriously.
Now that he knows, at least I get to complain and tease him when he changes the outgoing message to something that I don't like the sound of, or is just too short.
My T. definitely has to take a lot of guff from me.
Posted by Dinah on December 8, 2005, at 18:27:52
In reply to Re: I do it all the time » Dinah, posted by 10derHeart on December 8, 2005, at 18:22:13
lol.
Mine too.
Funny you should mention that moment. Today I almost told my therapist about your therapist saying it was "almost scary". Although admittedly my therapist seems to have gotten over the fear completely with time. rofl. Exposure therapy!
Posted by daisym on December 9, 2005, at 10:14:24
In reply to Empowerment, posted by Voce on December 8, 2005, at 16:44:11
I hope she calls you back soon. It does sound like she was glad to hear from you. That in itself should take away some of your angst. But I do understand that "but I shouldn't need this" stuff. I'm glad you allowed yourself to call.
The whole idea of being interdependent is a tough one because I think for those of us who were trained to believe that being completely independent was the goal, any kind of dependency needs feels bad. And yet, what would we say to anyone else having a bad day, or needing some TLC? It actually shows a tremendous amount of strength that you reached out for what you needed. That is truly very hard. Good for you!
Hang in there. Let us know what happens.
Posted by one woman cine on December 9, 2005, at 10:31:51
In reply to Re: Empowerment » Voce, posted by daisym on December 9, 2005, at 10:14:24
Yeah, I think interdependence is a goal for in therapy, to be an authentic independent individual, but one who can also get her needs met.
There's nothing wrong with that.
PS, I hope you are feeling better.
Posted by happyflower on December 9, 2005, at 11:33:55
In reply to Re: Empowerment » daisym, posted by one woman cine on December 9, 2005, at 10:31:51
Posted by Voce on December 9, 2005, at 13:00:05
In reply to DId your T call you back yet? ( Voce) (nm), posted by happyflower on December 9, 2005, at 11:33:55
Not yet, she said perhaps during lunch today. But if I have lunch with my fiance, that won't really work. She has been really good in the past about leaving her number and what times would be good to call HER back. If she calls me back, chances are I would have the courage to call her back if she doesn't catch me today.
Posted by muffled on December 9, 2005, at 14:20:15
In reply to Re: DId your T call you back yet? » happyflower, posted by Voce on December 9, 2005, at 13:00:05
I phoned my T macine today and she ANSWERED!!!GACK!!!I hung up.
Oh Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!
Posted by happyflower on December 9, 2005, at 14:27:07
In reply to Good luck Voce!!!, posted by muffled on December 9, 2005, at 14:20:15
> I phoned my T macine today and she ANSWERED!!!GACK!!!I hung up.
> Oh Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!
>Oh Muffy!!!!!
I wonder what T's think when all of us clients hang up on them! LOL It is kinda of funny, does she have caller ID? I wonder what she says under her breath, that Muffy, what is she up to now! LOL
Posted by Voce on December 11, 2005, at 21:19:45
In reply to Re: Good luck Voce!!! » muffled, posted by happyflower on December 9, 2005, at 14:27:07
But then again I did really downplay my need to talk to her. I told her to just call me whenever it was convenient for her. So she may do so next week.
I just really want to go TALK to her in person. I have 2 issues that are bothering me, both about my upcoming marriage. One sexual, one familial (is that the right word?) She is the only one I could ever dream of talking to about the sexual issue. I am going to ask if I can stop by and see her perhaps...just to talk a little...and I will offer to pay her.
But I think making that connection on Thursday night was just what I needed to make it through the weekend, even if we didn't talk a whole lot.
I'm also agonizing over whether or not to send ex male T a Christmas card. I bought one, but I bought a cheap one so that if I don't send it, it's no big loss!!!
Posted by Tamar on December 14, 2005, at 17:58:28
In reply to She hasn't called, posted by Voce on December 11, 2005, at 21:19:45
> But then again I did really downplay my need to talk to her. I told her to just call me whenever it was convenient for her. So she may do so next week.
Can you call her again? I think it would be OK, from what you said about her response to your last call.
> I just really want to go TALK to her in person. I have 2 issues that are bothering me, both about my upcoming marriage. One sexual, one familial (is that the right word?) She is the only one I could ever dream of talking to about the sexual issue. I am going to ask if I can stop by and see her perhaps...just to talk a little...and I will offer to pay her.
I think if you have issues you need to talk about, it’s a good idea to see her if you can. I have to say (having been married nearly 10 years, and with a troubled sex life the whole time) that dealing with sexual issues sooner rather than later is essential. Marriage is really hard work, and sex is one of the things that can make it all worthwhile. But it’s not easy for everyone.
> But I think making that connection on Thursday night was just what I needed to make it through the weekend, even if we didn't talk a whole lot.
>
> I'm also agonizing over whether or not to send ex male T a Christmas card. I bought one, but I bought a cheap one so that if I don't send it, it's no big loss!!!I’m in the same place. I think I’ve almost decided to send one. I’ve decided the purpose is to offer him some indication that the work we did together was useful to me and is still helping. I suspect that therapists really love hearing from former clients and are secretly disappointed that they can’t respond to us more fully!
Posted by Voce on December 14, 2005, at 18:48:56
In reply to Can you call her? » Voce, posted by Tamar on December 14, 2005, at 17:58:28
Thanks for asking, Tamar.
I haven't heard anything, and I haven't called either. I'm kind of at a stalemate with the whole thing. I have come to a conclusion on the familial issue (it has to do with my wedding, and I decided to talk to my clergyman, who is trustworthy). But then there's the sexual issue...and being that my fiance and I aren't sleeping together, I don't know if it would be productive to talk about it now, or just super embarrassing. So maybe I should wait on that and see how everything goes in that department.
Or perhaps I'm just rationalizing away the fact that I want to talk to her. Hmm.
Posted by Dinah on December 14, 2005, at 18:52:40
In reply to Re: Can you call her? » Tamar, posted by Voce on December 14, 2005, at 18:48:56
I thought you had wanted to set up therapy with her once she had her own practice? Or am I confusing you with someone else.
Don't expect that the sexual problems will go away, or at least that's not my experience. It's not too early to discuss it.
Posted by Tamar on December 14, 2005, at 19:26:41
In reply to Re: Can you call her? » Tamar, posted by Voce on December 14, 2005, at 18:48:56
> Thanks for asking, Tamar.
>
> I haven't heard anything, and I haven't called either. I'm kind of at a stalemate with the whole thing. I have come to a conclusion on the familial issue (it has to do with my wedding, and I decided to talk to my clergyman, who is trustworthy).I’m glad you found someone to talk to about that issue.
> But then there's the sexual issue...and being that my fiance and I aren't sleeping together, I don't know if it would be productive to talk about it now, or just super embarrassing. So maybe I should wait on that and see how everything goes in that department.
I always reckon it’s best to get into these things as soon as possible. It often feels a bit embarrassing when things aren’t going well sexually, even if you’re not actually having sex. But if there are difficulties, it will be easier on you if you can begin to deal with them as soon as possible.
I don’t know anything about your circumstances. But if you and your fiance aren’t sleeping together, I can’t imagine you’re a little nervous about beginning to sleep together. I’m guessing you’re waiting until you’re married… and one thing I’d mention is that wedding night sex is often rather disappointing and sometimes downright awful. If you’ve never gone beyond first base, I’d recommend taking it very slowly indeed for a few weeks after the wedding. Sexuality is for enjoying, not for rushing (IMHO).
One other thing… and of course you don’t have to respond to this (or indeed anything I say)… but if you don’t have a solo sex life yet, I’d recommend getting in touch with that part of yourself now. Finding pleasure in your own body is (I believe) the best way to begin to explore your sexuality.
Take a look at http://www.the-clitoris.com/ for further information. Actually, take a look at it whatever your circumstances, because there’s a lot of good information there. (Disclaimer: I don’t agree with everything there; I have serious ideological differences with some of the stuff about sexual abuse, for instance. But I think much of the site is worth reading.)
> Or perhaps I'm just rationalizing away the fact that I want to talk to her. Hmm.
Possibly… But if you want to talk to her, you can pick up the phone!
Good luck.
Tamar
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