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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fires on November 14, 2005, at 8:55:44
What does this have to do with psychology? Read on.
Abducted!
How People Come to Believe
they Were Kidnapped by AliensDr. Susan Clancy
Sunday, November 20, 2pm
Baxter Lecture Hall, Caltech, Pasadena, CA
(The Skeptics Distinguished Lecture Series at Caltech)There is no evidence that aliens have been visiting Earth and abducting humans. So how could anyone believe he or she was abducted by aliens? To answer this question, Harvard post-doc psychologist Susan Clancy interviewed and evaluated “abductees,” listening closely to their stories — how they struggled to explain something strange in their remembered experience, how abduction seemed plausible, and how, having suspected abduction, they began to recollect it, aided by suggestion and hypnosis. Clancy argues that abductees are sane and intelligent people who have unwittingly created vivid false memories from a toxic mix of nightmares, culturally available texts (abduction reports began only after stories of extraterrestrials appeared in films and on TV), and a powerful drive for meaning that science is unable to satisfy. For them, otherworldly terror can become a transforming, even inspiring experience.
Posted by caraher on November 14, 2005, at 9:20:26
In reply to Alien abductions and psychology, posted by fires on November 14, 2005, at 8:55:44
My understanding is that stories essentially identical to modern alien abduction stories also circulated in Europe in the Middle Ages, only with demons playing the role of aliens.
Posted by fires on November 14, 2005, at 11:20:55
In reply to Re: Alien abductions and psychology, posted by caraher on November 14, 2005, at 9:20:26
> My understanding is that stories essentially identical to modern alien abduction stories also circulated in Europe in the Middle Ages, only with demons playing the role of aliens.
Your comment sent me searching for more info.. I came across the following:
"Abductees are very much analogous not only to mystics, but to medieval nuns who believed they'd been seduced by devils, to ancient Greek women who thought they'd had sex with animals, and to women who believed they were witches. The abductees’ counselors and therapists are like the priests of old who do not challenge delusional beliefs, but encourage and nurture them."
from: http://skepdic.com/aliens.html
Posted by alexandra_k on November 14, 2005, at 14:32:59
In reply to Re: Alien abductions and psychology » caraher, posted by fires on November 14, 2005, at 11:20:55
they can be...
half-remembered incidents of physical / sexual assault too.
a lot of people maintain that 'aliens' did things to them internally...
at least...
thats one hypothesis of where those claims might be coming from.
Posted by fires on November 14, 2005, at 14:49:50
In reply to Re: Alien abductions and psychology » fires, posted by alexandra_k on November 14, 2005, at 14:32:59
> they can be...
>
> half-remembered incidents of physical / sexual assault too.
>
> a lot of people maintain that 'aliens' did things to them internally...
>
> at least...
>
> thats one hypothesis of where those claims might be coming from.
I'm not sure what you're saying. That alien abduction beliefs can be due to half remembered incidents of physical/sexual assault?
Posted by Jen Star on November 14, 2005, at 14:58:59
In reply to Alien abductions and psychology, posted by fires on November 14, 2005, at 8:55:44
hi fires,
I think this kind of discussion is fascinating. I think that some people make up alien abduction stories, but other REALLY believe it -- and it's fascinating to try and understand how and why they believe it!I read about a rash of therapist-induced "false memories" that occurred a while back, where therapists were helping people "remember" that they killed, murdered, participated in orgies, etc. It was a big movement to uncover these "repressed memories" but most of them turned out to be completely false.
Memory is such a weird, tricky thing. It's scary to me that many people can come to believe things that never happened -- and to FERVENTLY believe them.
JenStar
Posted by alexandra_k on November 14, 2005, at 15:00:48
In reply to Re: Alien abductions and psychology » alexandra_k, posted by fires on November 14, 2005, at 14:49:50
> I'm not sure what you're saying. That alien abduction beliefs can be due to half remembered incidents of physical/sexual assault?
I'm saying...
> > thats one hypothesis of where those claims might be coming from.
Though I should probably qualify that further still by saying thats one hypothesis of where some of those claims might be coming from...
Posted by Jen Star on November 14, 2005, at 15:02:44
In reply to Re: Alien abductions and psychology » alexandra_k, posted by fires on November 14, 2005, at 14:49:50
I think that IS what she is saying -- that some people come to believe they were abducted and touched by aliens, when in reality, they were sexually molested at a young age and didn't really understand what was happening. Therefore, they developed this "alien" memory as a way to explain something their brain didn't understand.
I don't know if I believe that or not. I think it's possible. I think some people may truly have repressed memories of sexual abuse. And I think other people who *remember* abuse really never were abused, but are somehow convincing themselves they were. I know that's a potentially inflammatory statement - but it's what I think.
JenStar
Posted by alexandra_k on November 14, 2005, at 15:06:10
In reply to Re: Alien abductions and psychology » fires, posted by Jen Star on November 14, 2005, at 14:58:59
>I think that some people make up alien abduction stories, but other REALLY believe it -- and it's fascinating to try and understand how and why they believe it!
you mean some people are lying, and other people really believe it?
> I read about a rash of therapist-induced "false memories" that occurred a while back, where therapists were helping people "remember" that they killed, murdered, participated in orgies, etc. It was a big movement to uncover these "repressed memories" but most of them turned out to be completely false.yes. most of that came out of the hypothesis that satanic ritual abuse was part of the aetiology of dissoicative identity disorder. church based theapists have been interested in the disorder for a while because of perceived similarities between people with alternative identities and people suffering from what they considered to be demonic posession.
the idea was that there were cults (located in various places along the bible belt areas of the US) and that these cults forced young children to partake in these rituals. And thus they found... demons... or alters... or whatever.
> Memory is such a weird, tricky thing. It's scary to me that many people can come to believe things that never happened -- and to FERVENTLY believe them.yes. what is even more frightening to me... is that therapists are allowed to practice without demonstrating that they understand something of this... and understand something of the things they may do to make it more likely that memories are accurate as opposed to confabulated.
Posted by alexandra_k on November 14, 2005, at 15:11:20
In reply to Re: Alien abductions and psychology » fires, posted by Jen Star on November 14, 2005, at 15:02:44
> I think that IS what she is saying -- that some people come to believe they were abducted and touched by aliens, when in reality, they were sexually molested at a young age and didn't really understand what was happening.
or that they couldn't *handle* what was happening and thus distorted the memory so they were able to deal with it.
>Therefore, they developed this "alien" memory as a way to explain something their brain didn't understand.
well... memory of an 'alien' as opposed to 'alien memory'. here are two hypotheses:
1) my father sexually abused me
2) alien beings from outer space sexually abused me
I imagine that sometimes... 2 would be preferable. Especially... If one needed to trust and rely on ones father to meet ones basic needs etc.
> I don't know if I believe that or not.Thats okay. It is a hypothesis that I have heard. I'm not sure how often this happens (if that is an accurate description of any cases at all)
>I think it's possible.
Yeah. me to.
>I think some people may truly have repressed memories of sexual abuse. And I think other people who *remember* abuse really never were abused, but are somehow convincing themselves they were. I know that's a potentially inflammatory statement - but it's what I think.
I think that too.
And what I think even more...
Is the role that the media / society / self-help books / therapists play in perpeptuating and 'encouraging' this to happen...
Posted by alexandra_k on November 14, 2005, at 15:23:59
In reply to Re: Alien abductions ****TRIGGER THREAD** » Jen Star, posted by alexandra_k on November 14, 2005, at 15:11:20
Posted by fires on November 14, 2005, at 15:24:43
In reply to Re: Alien abductions ****TRIGGER THREAD** » Jen Star, posted by alexandra_k on November 14, 2005, at 15:11:20
> or that they couldn't *handle* what was happening and thus distorted the memory so they were able to deal with it.I only had time to skim read many of the posts since my last one, but..
From everything I've read, and heard at lectures: memories of trauma aren't altered or repressed so that people can deal with them. Research shows that quite the opposite is true. Most victims have trouble not being able to forget traumatic memories.
I don't have time now to cite references - maybe later.
Posted by alexandra_k on November 14, 2005, at 15:34:13
In reply to Re: Alien abductions ****TRIGGER THREAD** » alexandra_k, posted by fires on November 14, 2005, at 15:24:43
> From everything I've read, and heard at lectures: memories of trauma aren't altered or repressed so that people can deal with them. Research shows that quite the opposite is true. Most victims have trouble not being able to forget traumatic memories.
> I don't have time now to cite references - maybe later.Its okay.
Thats what I've heard too.Except...
From psychodynamic theorists who like to talk about repressed trauma of course.
Posted by alexandra_k on November 14, 2005, at 15:37:24
In reply to Re: Alien abductions ****TRIGGER THREAD** » fires, posted by alexandra_k on November 14, 2005, at 15:34:13
it is controversial of course...
but i think the thought is...
that most people have difficulty forgetting
which isn't inconsistent with a difficulty talking about it or a difficulty thinking about it or a difficulty in seeing what they remember happening as 'abuse'...but forgetting...
repressed memories...
yeah
i'm a little sceptical too...because it is rather odd that those kinds of memories are 'facilitated' by a self-help book / a therapist / etc etc
by people searching...
for something to legitimate their distress...
i dunno
Posted by fires on November 14, 2005, at 20:39:07
In reply to Re: Alien abductions and psychology » fires, posted by Jen Star on November 14, 2005, at 14:58:59
> Memory is such a weird, tricky thing. It's scary to me that many people can come to believe things that never happened -- and to FERVENTLY believe them.
>
> JenStarI like the demonstration in which a college professor will have a person disrupt his/her class without warning by running through the room. The descriptions of the "runner" are invariably quite varied. Also, if the right student says that he is certain that the runner had on glasses, some classmates will agree with him (when the runner didn't have on glasses). Memory can be "contagious"?
Posted by allisonross on November 15, 2005, at 8:50:28
In reply to Alien abductions and psychology, posted by fires on November 14, 2005, at 8:55:44
I've read a lot, and watched programs on tv....anything is possible.
There was one story of 5 (rugged, common-sense/never been to therapy/abused....
..MEN, fishing in the wilderness); won't go into detail, but they were traumatized at what happened to them; it was in the Allagash willderness in Maine
(where I am from, or as I like to call Maine--HEAVEN). They were interviewed separately, and their stories were exactly the same.....i believe it, simply because
I think it would be arrogant, to assume we know everything; after I saw that particular story, I was a believer!
Hey, I WORK with aliens (so it IS possible, LOL, LOL)
I'm going to go on the 'net now, and see if I can find that story.Grins, Ally
Posted by Tabitha on November 16, 2005, at 0:08:50
In reply to Re: Alien abductions /I...think it's possible!!!, posted by allisonross on November 15, 2005, at 8:50:28
Another skeptic here. When I hear alien abduction stories I tend to think fraud or delusion is involved. But maybe one day a 7-ft tall green-skinned alien will show up in my room, with his hi-tech probes and all, and I'll have to reconsider. Oh wow, that reminds me of a wonderful little novel called "Mrs Caliban".
This is the end of the thread.
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