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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cricket on August 25, 2005, at 11:49:44
So for three years now, I have assumed that my therapist, even if very competent, is rather indifferent to me. He treats me because that is his job. He would be happy if I disappeared. He completely forgets I exist from week to week.
For three years, I’ve been looking for evidence that above assumptions are correct. And despite, my being willing to interpret almost anything in favor of my assumption, I really haven’t found any solid evidence that the above assumption is true.
So what if I just assumed something different?
What if I assume that he cares about me? He treats me, despite the fact that he could readily get easier, better-paying patients, because he likes me and likes the challenge I present? He doesn’t forget my existence until he sees my face on Tuesday afternoon, but I pass through his mind from time to time and he ponders ways to help me?
So even if I spend the next three years, looking for evidence that the above assumptions are correct, I suspect that I won’t find any evidence that he cares either.
So I’ll never really know one way or the other.
Set of #1 assumptions certainly feel safer. But after three years of getting nowhere with them, is it time to try something different? Even just for the heck of it.
So what’s the harm in trying #2? Even if the assumptions are wrong, what does it matter? What will happen if I assume he cares and at then some point I find evidence that proves I am wrong? Well then I will change my assumption at that point
But in the meantime, faced with the lack of any evidence…
Is this stupid? Sort of like believing in God, even though you really don’t, because it makes you feel better?
I guess I am curious if there will be any changes in our interactions if I just go to therapy assuming he cares.
Any thoughts?
Posted by Dinah on August 25, 2005, at 12:20:05
In reply to What if....., posted by cricket on August 25, 2005, at 11:49:44
There will be huge differences in the way you interact. And as you become more trusting and open with him, it's quite possible that he will even show his caring more.
But I already see signs that he cares about you, Cricket.
Posted by Daisym on August 25, 2005, at 14:50:30
In reply to Re: What if....., posted by Dinah on August 25, 2005, at 12:20:05
Believing someone cares about you can be healing. And I think it lets your guard down just a smidgen so you might *feel* his caring too. If you can't prove it, but you can feel it, isn't that enough?
This is a powerful insight. I'd go with it. And I think I might tell him too. Just a thought...
Posted by alexandra_k on August 25, 2005, at 15:22:04
In reply to What if....., posted by cricket on August 25, 2005, at 11:49:44
> So for three years now, I have assumed that my therapist, even if very competent, is rather indifferent to me. He treats me because that is his job. He would be happy if I disappeared. He completely forgets I exist from week to week.
Thats gotta feel pretty bad :-(
> For three years, I’ve been looking for evidence that above assumptions are correct. And despite, my being willing to interpret almost anything in favor of my assumption, I really haven’t found any solid evidence that the above assumption is true.
:-)
> So what if I just assumed something different?:-)
> What if I assume that he cares about me? He treats me, despite the fact that he could readily get easier, better-paying patients, because he likes me and likes the challenge I present? He doesn’t forget my existence until he sees my face on Tuesday afternoon, but I pass through his mind from time to time and he ponders ways to help me?And thats gotta feel a lot better :-)
> So even if I spend the next three years, looking for evidence that the above assumptions are correct, I suspect that I won’t find any evidence that he cares either.Yeah.
Though to just be a little bit picky...
Instead of looking for evidence that supports a hypothesis one is supposed to look for evidence that disconfirms a hypothesis.
But that doesn't matter so much
(because you can revise auxillary assumptions - write evidence off as him having a bad day etc - ad infinitum.)
> So I’ll never really know one way or the other.Yeah.
> Set of #1 assumptions certainly feel safer. But after three years of getting nowhere with them, is it time to try something different? Even just for the heck of it.
:-)
> So what’s the harm in trying #2? Even if the assumptions are wrong, what does it matter? What will happen if I assume he cares and at then some point I find evidence that proves I am wrong? Well then I will change my assumption at that point
> But in the meantime, faced with the lack of any evidence…
> Is this stupid? Sort of like believing in God, even though you really don’t, because it makes you feel better?Oh no no no. I think what you have figured is great. Really really great :-) Sounds like the first step with respect to trust to me.
> I guess I am curious if there will be any changes in our interactions if I just go to therapy assuming he cares.
I think so.
I think that the assumption that he doesn't has coloured your thinking / interpretation of what he says etc more than you probably realise.Trust is hard.
But this sounds like a positive move to me
:-)
Posted by Damos on August 25, 2005, at 17:27:57
In reply to What if....., posted by cricket on August 25, 2005, at 11:49:44
Hey Cricket :-)
Trust is a combination of Character and Competence. Character is about motives, values, honesty, etc. Competence is about capability, knowledge and skill. We don't judge competence by bits of paper hanging on a wall, we tend to percieve it. So trusting means "I know you will not deliberately (character) or accidentally (competence), consciously or unconsciously - take unfair advantage of me." Trust is a measure of my safety with you. In order to be trusted you must first be trustworthy. In all honesty the hardest thing about trust is that to get the most out of it you actually have to trust a little too much. Much of the building of trust is done through the making and keeping of committments. You make one and keep it, my trust in you goes up and you put a deposit in my "emotional bank account" (Stephen Covey) that I'll allow you to draw down against later. You keep making and breaking them and your account will be overdrawn so I'll stop lending.
Trust is only 1 of 6 essential elements of a solid relationship, the others being:
Understanding
Acceptance
Respect
Courtesy and
Mutual AccountabilityUnderstanding is really important because our understanding of each other helps us build trust. The better I understand you the clearer my picture of your character and competence and therefore my assumptions as to your motives, intent and my ability to read you moods, sense of humour etc.
Acceptance. Peoples emotions tend to move from anxiety to acceptance as they learn more about the other person. It's about approving of someone, even though they may be very unlike you. Basic training in the military is really about taking these people from vastly different backgrounds and breaking them down to a level where they can accept each other and appreciate what each persons differences bring to the whole.
Respect. 'All' of you are a team and each of you brings something to the table. In solid relationships and high performing teams the input of every single member is treated with respect and appreciation
Coutesy is all about how we address, listen to and respond to one another. Courtesy is a manifestation of trust, acceptance and respect. We demonstrate it by graciousness, consideration for one another, sincerity, listening and the type of humour we use with each other.
Mutual Accountability is basically "if you don't succeed, we don't succeed"
The ability to collaborate "on" purpose is also where magic can happen. What I mean is that we can work together on something never exactly having an agreed and shared purpose or, we can collaborate "on" purpose where we agree and share a common goal and purpose that we are both working toward.
It's also important that when you're trying to build solid relationship that things be really explicit. Because otherwise you tend to fill in the blanks with assumptions, judgements, past stuff etc
What you described sounds like a paradigm shift. A shift in the way you percieve, understand and interpret the world. I think it was Thomas Kuhn who said something like: that every significant breakthrough in science is first a break with tradition, old ways of thinking, or old paradigms.
Sorry to have gone on so long. Please feel free to ignore the lot. I just know when I worked with our people leaders about this stuff a lot of it came as a shock and the very awareness of what was needed to make solid relationships and the feedback from their teams actually helped some of them change their behaviour and the way they related to their people.
It's never too late the change the way we view a relationship. Wishing you well Cricket.
Posted by Tamar on August 25, 2005, at 18:53:57
In reply to What if....., posted by cricket on August 25, 2005, at 11:49:44
I like your what-if. It sounds like you can imagine him caring about you in a way that’s new, and I really think there’s the possibility of change. I think the really important thing is that if you assume he cares about you then he will be more able to demonstrate that he cares about you.
I reckon for sure he thinks about you between your sessions. I don’t think it’s the kind of job that people can switch off when they’re not there in the moment. I’m a teacher, and I think a lot about my students when I plan my teaching. I decide how to explain stuff on the basis of their interests (which emerge in class). How much more with therapy, when you’re in a one-to-one situation!
I also think it might be a good idea to tell him about this what-if. Maybe you want to try it out for yourself for a while first… but I bet it would be a productive discussion to have eventually.
Posted by cricket on August 26, 2005, at 12:35:49
In reply to Re: What if....., posted by Dinah on August 25, 2005, at 12:20:05
>
> But I already see signs that he cares about you, Cricket.Hmmm, that's what a friend IRL, the only person who knows about my therapy, said. So I got thinking...
Posted by cricket on August 26, 2005, at 12:51:07
In reply to Re: What if....., posted by cricket on August 26, 2005, at 12:35:49
Posted by cricket on August 26, 2005, at 12:54:04
In reply to Re: What if....., posted by Daisym on August 25, 2005, at 14:50:30
If you can't prove it, but you can feel it, isn't that enough?
>
Yes, it is enough.> This is a powerful insight. I'd go with it. And I think I might tell him too. Just a thought...
Hmmm. A couple of people have suggested that.
Posted by cricket on August 26, 2005, at 13:02:51
In reply to Re: What if..... » cricket, posted by alexandra_k on August 25, 2005, at 15:22:04
> Though to just be a little bit picky...
> Instead of looking for evidence that supports a hypothesis one is supposed to look for evidence that disconfirms a hypothesis.
> But that doesn't matter so much
> (because you can revise auxillary assumptions - write evidence off as him having a bad day etc - ad infinitum.)
>
Yes, so it remains a hypothesis. I'm okay with that.
>
> I think so.
> I think that the assumption that he doesn't has coloured your thinking / interpretation of what he says etc more than you probably realise.
>
> Trust is hard.
> But this sounds like a positive move to me
> :-)
>
Yes, I hope so. Well I will give it some time and let's see.
Posted by cricket on August 26, 2005, at 19:34:58
In reply to Re: What if.....(long) » cricket, posted by Damos on August 25, 2005, at 17:27:57
Thanks Damos for such a thoughtful reply.
It also does make a lot of sense.
>
Let's see
> Understanding - We definitely struggle with this one.
> Acceptance - Hmmm. In therapy the goal is change so I'm not sure how this comes into play. In real life though, acceptance is critical. My marriage improved 100% once I just accepted my husband as he is.
> Respect - No problem here.
> Courtesy and - No problem.
> Mutual Accountability - No problem.
>
> Understanding is really important because our understanding of each other helps us build trust. The better I understand you the clearer my picture of your character and competence and therefore my assumptions as to your motives, intent and my ability to read you moods, sense of humour etc.Yeah, but I guess trust comes first though. Because without trust, I don't feel comfortable letting you know me.
>
> Acceptance. Peoples emotions tend to move from anxiety to acceptance as they learn more about the other person. It's about approving of someone, even though they may be very unlike you. Basic training in the military is really about taking these people from vastly different backgrounds and breaking them down to a level where they can accept each other and appreciate what each persons differences bring to the whole.
>
Yeah, part of the problem with my therapist is that we come from such different backgrounds it's almost like we need a translator sometimes.> The ability to collaborate "on" purpose is also where magic can happen. What I mean is that we can work together on something never exactly having an agreed and shared purpose or, we can collaborate "on" purpose where we agree and share a common goal and purpose that we are both working toward.
>
Yeah, that might be a problem with us. My issues are so messy and complex that it's even hard to pin them down.> It's also important that when you're trying to build solid relationship that things be really explicit. Because otherwise you tend to fill in the blanks with assumptions, judgements, past stuff etc
>
> What you described sounds like a paradigm shift. A shift in the way you percieve, understand and interpret the world. I think it was Thomas Kuhn who said something like: that every significant breakthrough in science is first a break with tradition, old ways of thinking, or old paradigms.I hope so. It was one of those aha things where you say "well why didn't I think of this before?"
>
> Sorry to have gone on so long.Thank you for taking the time.
:-)
Posted by cricket on August 26, 2005, at 19:36:50
In reply to Re: What if..... » cricket, posted by Tamar on August 25, 2005, at 18:53:57
Thanks Tamar.
I hope you're right.
I'll keep you updated.
This is the end of the thread.
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