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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by orchid on August 9, 2005, at 13:53:32
After a 3 year hard core diving into psychology and trying to understand relationships, and getting into all these concepts like projection/transference/replyaing of childhood/working out of abuse etc.. I have finally come to the conclusion - that none of these really matters that much.. And neither that people cannot live according to such theories. This is not the final answer.
The final answer is simplicity, and innocence and simple affection and love for persons, caring for other people as you would care for yourself.
All these concept of being individuals with firm boundaries, relationships being based on strict give and take and need based things - all are fine to a certain extent. But ultimately, it is a two dimensional view of life. It is not the real truth. And nobody will be happy by following and learning psychology. It is needed to work out of problems, but it is not a role model for healthy living.
Real happiness comes from being able to love people unconditionally (atleast to a good extent), and treating everyone well and caring about everyone and loving God, and being simple and keeping God in the center of ourselves and our dealings with others.
Psychology is not a way to learn about life. (From my experience). It is needed to debug if something goes wrong, just as you need to operate on a person if an organ fails, but that by itself doens't make a person happy.
Posted by orchid on August 9, 2005, at 13:55:58
In reply to Reinstating Innocence, posted by orchid on August 9, 2005, at 13:53:32
(Thanks to a mail from an old friend who always makes me see the real thing about life and shakes me out of all this trap every now and then I get into such materialistic ideas and shows me what love and happiness really is).
Posted by Shortelise on August 9, 2005, at 14:38:47
In reply to Reinstating Innocence, posted by orchid on August 9, 2005, at 13:53:32
Orchid, I agree with all you say except one thing: I do not believe in unconditional love. I think it is too much to ask of anyone, except of parents for a young child.
I think the expectation of unconditional love is unrealistic.
There are conditions between my husband and me. I cannot do certain things, he cannot do certain things, or it will damage our love. We must respect and know each other, must respect each others' needs and boudaries. Iw ould help him through anything, but if it damaged our relationship too much, broke our love, I would eventually leave him. I can't imagine this ever happening though.
What do you think?
ShortE
Posted by orchid on August 9, 2005, at 14:40:09
In reply to Re: Reinstating Innocence, posted by Shortelise on August 9, 2005, at 14:38:47
that is why I said unconditional love (atleast to a good extent). It cannot be 100 %. But to a good extent, it can be unconditional.
Posted by Daisym on August 9, 2005, at 15:23:08
In reply to Reinstating Innocence, posted by orchid on August 9, 2005, at 13:53:32
***that none of these really matters that much..***
I've spent my whole life saying this. "It doesn't matter...it is in the past." "It doesn't matter...he didn't mean it, he was angry." "It doesn't matter...I made the best of it." I think, for me, "it doesn't matter" means "let it go. I'm past it, it doesn't deserve your time or attention." My therapist says "it doesn't matter" translates into "I don't matter."
For most of my life I have thought that I turned out OK "despite" what happened to me when I was a child. I transcended it. Boy, was I wrong. It has controlled me and influenced me in ways I've never acknowledged or even was aware of. To say, "none of these matters much" is going back to that place of denial and isolation.
What happened to us, all of us, abuse or not, DOES matter. Being loved and cared for is a great gift and this matters more than anything. I think some of us must learn how to trust within the context of a safe theraputic relationship. It might be two dimensional but I believe it is the real truth. Sometimes much more real than what we allow ourselves to know outside of the consulting room. For me, psychology has been a way to learn about life. My own inner life. The idea that I have needs (gasp!) and that those needs are acceptable and not bad (gasp, gasp!)AND that someone else might be necessary to get those needs met (oxygen please!) --- these are things I've just started to learn.
And all that said, I agree with you that it is not the final answer. It is the beginning question.
Thank you for making me think.
Posted by orchid on August 9, 2005, at 15:33:09
In reply to Re: Reinstating Innocence, posted by Daisym on August 9, 2005, at 15:23:08
Actually, I didn't mean to dismiss it as "it doesn't matter"
I am little bad at English - it being my second language, so sometimes the way I put things across is not the way it gets communicated.
What I did mean was that, in the end, this is only a healing process, and that it is necessary as a healing tool, but that is just that. After that healing, we cannot hold on to psychology and try to live our real lives according to theories of psychology.
It is necessary like an operation is necessary. But once operated, its job is more or less over. After that real life needs more 3 dimensional living - and trying to analyze and live life with psychological theories like trying to udnerstand love based on "give and take" and boundaries, and transference - that doesn't work well.
That is what I meant, and again, it is only my personal opinion.
Posted by orchid on August 9, 2005, at 15:34:58
In reply to Re: Reinstating Innocence » Daisym, posted by orchid on August 9, 2005, at 15:33:09
I don't want my first post to be misunderstood.
Posted by happyflower on August 9, 2005, at 15:53:35
In reply to Re: Reinstating Innocence, posted by Daisym on August 9, 2005, at 15:23:08
> For most of my life I have thought that I turned out OK "despite" what happened to me when I was a child. I transcended it. Boy, was I wrong. It has controlled me and influenced me in ways I've never acknowledged or even was aware of. To say, "none of these matters much" is going back to that place of denial and isolation.This is so true! This is what I always thought, but I have just recently acknowledged that yeah, my past did affect my present and they way I have lived my life. It was just as hard to admit this as it was to accept that I was abused by my parents. There were my major turning points in therapy for me.
I was very angry a couple of weeks ago at my mother. My T said this was a very good sign. I was grieveing my childhood because now that I am living life so much fuller, I realized that I wasted years being affected by the abuse. Now I know my life is worth so much more than that. Living feel so good! Not just surviving, but thriving! :)> What happened to us, all of us, abuse or not, DOES matter. Being loved and cared for is a great gift and this matters more than anything. I think some of us must learn how to trust within the context of a safe theraputic relationship.
Learning to trust me T was the first thing I had to do in therapy because I didn't trust anyone expect my DH. Because of my relentless support of my T, I learned to trust him little by little, and now I feel more safe to try it out on other people in my life.
It might be two dimensional but I believe it is the real truth. Sometimes much more real than what we allow ourselves to know outside of the consulting room. For me, psychology has been a way to learn about life. My own inner life. The idea that I have needs (gasp!) and that those needs are acceptable and not bad (gasp, gasp!)AND that someone else might be necessary to get those needs met (oxygen please!) --- these are things I've just started to learn.
Yes, and that you are worth it, and deserve to treat yourself and think about yourself. My T said he could put me first and I could but him first in life, but what good would that do. Only you know what you really need. You need to learn to put yourself first and that it is okay to be "selfish" and get the things you need out of life. The more of a whole person you are, the more you can offer others.
>
> And all that said, I agree with you that it is not the final answer. It is the beginning question.
>
> Thank you for making me think.I agree, it is the beginning and I am so happy therapy made me realize it. The world is there waiting for us to make it what we want, we just have to know WHAT it is we need.
This is the end of the thread.
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