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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 29. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Poet on July 9, 2005, at 0:54:26
I am dysthymic so on some level I am always depressed. I believe that I am currently more depressed because of my job situation and not chemicals in my brain.
Even former pdoc said that he thinks my depression is more situational. I have been on the same dose of ADs since April and until now I was doing better. Yes, they could have kicked out and former pdoc didn't like that I was tapering myself down, but I didn't start feeling so low until last week. Situational.
I have names of new pdocs, I just don't see what good it will do me other than make me more angry about my situation. I have three months worth of meds from former pdoc, so I am not completely out. I just don't think meds are the answer. It's the situation I am in, not the chemicals.
I will spare you the I told my T I should quit when the insurance runs out on her rant. You've heard my therapy failure rant too often.
Poet
Posted by daisym on July 9, 2005, at 1:25:28
In reply to Situational Depression, posted by Poet on July 9, 2005, at 0:54:26
Just because it is situational doesn't mean medication won't help.
My pdoc said she has two catagories of patients. Most are in the situational group -- divorce, laid off, spouse dies, etc. Those people need 6 months to a year of medications to "get through it." Others need the ongoing boost or regulation of brain chemicals. Sometimes those with ongoing needs need a boost due to the situation.
I've been thinking about it like this: When you are standing just off shore, you can see dry, safe land, not too far away and you can feel the bump, bump of the waves. But you can stand up against them. But after awhile, the sun and wind and constant pull of those waves makes you tired. And slowly, slowly, the sand is shifting and you are being pulled further and further away from the safe shore. And you are too tired to swim back. And you have sand in your pants and crabs biting your toes. And suddenly, your feet don't touch anymore and you now have to tread water. So you slip under now and again, fight back, pull yourself up and tread water some more. You might hold your own, but to really get back to that safe dry land, you need help.
Your therapist has a boat, and a strong rope to help pull you to shore. Your pdoc has the flotation devise (medication) on which you get to rest when you get too tired to keep treading water. You need to trust that they know how to help you get to shore. Please let them.
Posted by Jazzed on July 9, 2005, at 8:47:51
In reply to Re: Situational Depression » Poet, posted by daisym on July 9, 2005, at 1:25:28
Wow, I really like the way daisy put that metaphorically. Great description.
I also get situationally depressed poet. I go from situation to situation. Sometimes I can handle it really well, sometimes I feel more overwhelmed by it. I wanted to take meds to quit feeling so intensely when those situations hit where I don't cope as well.
There's nothing bad about trying to go w/o. At least then you'll know if you can cope better on or off of them.
Jazzy
Posted by LadyBug on July 9, 2005, at 12:32:00
In reply to Situational Depression, posted by Poet on July 9, 2005, at 0:54:26
I am dysthimic also. I've been taking the same med for about 6 years. I'm afraid to go off it. I tried about 3 years ago and became suicidial for about 4 months. I got back on my meds. I don't feel great all the time, but I fight hard to do my best. I think my T. helps me stay balanced. I agree that situations make us more depressed and it's not chemical.
I hope you will choose to stay on your meds and try to fight your way back to where you are feeling better. This will pass, just when is the question. I understand your battle. It will get better.
I love Daisym's methophor!!!!
Hang on to your life lines.
LadyBug
Posted by Shortelise on July 9, 2005, at 21:13:08
In reply to Situational Depression, posted by Poet on July 9, 2005, at 0:54:26
Oh, Poet. You sound so hopeless. Are you really hopeless? Is there really nothing you can do? Or nothing that can be done?
Sometimes I feel that way. It's just the worst. I do hope someone is there for you.
ShortE
Posted by Poet on July 10, 2005, at 13:40:19
In reply to Re: Situational Depression » Poet, posted by daisym on July 9, 2005, at 1:25:28
Hi Daisy,
You write so beautifully. I am treading water. My therapist does have a boat and a rope that I can grab onto. It's just that I truly can't figure out why she doesn't take the perfect opportunity to terminate me when the insurance runs out. It's not like I am easy to rescue, so to speak.
I am going to force myself to call the new pdocs and see who can get me in first. Not a great way to find a new one, but at least they will be covered by insurance. Former pdoc went to another healthcare system and I have been paying him out of pocket. While the idea of telling my long and boring story all over again scares me, what he charges scares me more.
Thank you so much for the analogy. I need to grab those life lines.
Poet
Posted by Poet on July 10, 2005, at 13:46:12
In reply to Re: Situational Depression » daisym, posted by Jazzed on July 9, 2005, at 8:47:51
Hi Jazzy,
I really don't think meds are the answer, though former pdoc had a point that they might keep me from gonig into a deep depression. I just don't want to go back up in dose, it wasn't even side effects just that oh my God, am I this crazy that I need to take this much? I know that's crazy. I am going to call a pdoc and make an appointment. So if I do need increased meds I will have someone to write a prescription for me. I can see my former one, but he's out of network for insurance and I really can't afford out of pocket.
I hate feeling down from situation to situation. Why can't I just let things go?
Thanks for your understanding. Sorry you're in the same situation, so to speak.
Poet
Posted by Poet on July 10, 2005, at 13:48:47
In reply to Re: Situational Depression, posted by LadyBug on July 9, 2005, at 12:32:00
Hi LadyBug,
I will hang onto those lifelines. Sorry you're a member of the dysthymia club, too. I am going to call a new pdoc, but plan to stick to my present dose. It's more preventative in case I totally crash.
Thanks for helping.
Poet
Posted by Poet on July 10, 2005, at 14:01:51
In reply to Re: Situational Depression » Poet, posted by Shortelise on July 9, 2005, at 21:13:08
Hi ShortE,
What's so pathetic is that there are people who can help me. My T and former pdoc, and new pdoc when I make an appointment with one.
I am the only one who sees myself in a hopeless situation. A rational person wouldn't see herself this way. A rational person would grab that lifeline. Seeing a new pdoc is a start. Whether or not I listen to him/her is another matter. I fired original pdoc because he just kept increasing the meds, I would go back to him, but he's not under insurance anymore, so that's why if I go to one I have to start fresh.
I'm sorry you've felt this hopelessness, I wish none of us did.
Poet
Posted by Poet on July 10, 2005, at 14:02:29
In reply to Re: Situational Depression, posted by Poet on July 10, 2005, at 13:40:19
Posted by Jazzed on July 10, 2005, at 14:57:12
In reply to Re: Situational Depression » Jazzed, posted by Poet on July 10, 2005, at 13:46:12
> Hi Jazzy,
>
> I really don't think meds are the answer, though former pdoc had a point that they might keep me from gonig into a deep depression. IHi Poet,
I can sure understand not wanting to fork out $ for a p-doc not in network. Yikes! I hope the new one has some better answers for you. Maybe you just haven't found the right meds yet. Maybe the new doc will discover, from what you tell him/her, that it's a diff. neurotransmitter that needs a boost. What have you been on?
I"m glad your T is good, and I"m glad she didn't terminate you. It shows that she genuinely cares. That must feel pretty good.
You sound like you're pretty hard on yourself, saying that a "rational person would...." Well, even if you don't feel rational, at least you know what you're shooting for. It sucks to feel depressed, and when we don't know why, or feel like there's no reason, I think we tend to beat ourselves up about it.
I hope the new p-doc is awesome! Do you have any idea when you'll be able to get in?
Jazzy
Posted by Tamar on July 10, 2005, at 15:17:04
In reply to Situational Depression, posted by Poet on July 9, 2005, at 0:54:26
I'm sorry to hear you're having such a hard time. I'm going through job crap too. It can feel so frustrating if there's little possibility of changing things. Do you want to say more about the situation? Or would you rather not go there?
I was struck by your question to Jazzy, when you said, “Why can’t I just let things go?” I wonder if it’s part of the hopelessness. I sometimes would love to let things go, but they just hang around and don’t seem to have anywhere to go.
The feeling of hopelessness is awful. I hope you grab hold of those lifelines and hang on tight. And I hope you begin to feel better soon.
Tamar
Posted by Damos on July 10, 2005, at 17:22:23
In reply to Situational Depression, posted by Poet on July 9, 2005, at 0:54:26
Hey Poet,
I'm dysthymic too, and what you say rings so true for me.
Been off the ADs since Jan and stuff at work is really taking a toll on me of late. To use daisym's analogy, some days it feels like people row out to me just to club me with an oar. But the truth is I spend way more time beating myself up than others do.
Honestly I'd stick with the T and the meds if they're helping. There's no point in risking a major crash when support is there to help get you to a point where the 'situation' has changed and it may be safer for you to come off. I say this because my post AD experience has been that my moods/mental state have been much more volatile than they were pre AD.
Please take good care of you, and if someone throws you a rope or offers you a life jacket grap it.
Damos
Posted by Poet on July 10, 2005, at 17:24:29
In reply to Re: Situational Depression » Poet, posted by Jazzed on July 10, 2005, at 14:57:12
Hi Jazzy,
Assuming nobody is spying on me at work (add paranoia to my list)I will try to make a pdoc appointment tomorrow. I'm not in a crisis, so if it takes a month or two to get me in, that should be okay.
Last year former pdoc got me in within two days because I told him it was him or the hospital. I am not that bad now. See, improvement over last summer.
I'll post when I get an appointment.
Poet
Posted by Jazzed on July 10, 2005, at 17:43:10
In reply to Re: Situational Depression » Jazzed, posted by Poet on July 10, 2005, at 17:24:29
>
> Last year former pdoc got me in within two days because I told him it was him or the hospital. I am not that bad now. See, improvement over last summer.
>
Oooo Poet, that does not sound good. A month or two is a long time, esp. when you feel bad. Not just crisis, but crappy. I hope you will hang on to the lifelines you have with your T. Does she know you're in the process of switching p-docs?I don't let stuff go either, I dwell on it, ruminate, get all caught up in it, and just can't let go. It ends up causing me so much pain, I wish I could just let go. Why is it that some ppl can let go of stuff so easily? I would think some of the ADs would help with that type of thing. Don't they? What meds have you tried?
Will be thinking of you,
((((hugs)))))
Jazzy
Posted by Poet on July 10, 2005, at 17:49:52
In reply to Re: Situational Depression » Poet, posted by Tamar on July 10, 2005, at 15:17:04
Hi Tamar,
I am thinking that accepting the salary cut and staying at temp job as their permanent employee is a big mistake. Staying there will just make me more depressed.
I'll just take my chances with another temp placement and I did interview for two jobs last week, so maybe I will luck out and come out better off. I know it's a big maybe, but maybe I know what's right for me? For once?
Keep your fingers crossed. Babble mail me with your job woes. We can compare horror stories.
Poet
Posted by Poet on July 10, 2005, at 17:58:53
In reply to Re: Situational Depression » Poet, posted by Damos on July 10, 2005, at 17:22:23
Hi Damos,
I think I've hit myself with that rescue oar many times. This time I hope that I will just let somebody pull me in.
Thank you for sharing your experience as a dysthymic and coming off ADs. I have decided to find a new pdoc and will continue to take the meds without decreasing the dose any further until I see the new one.
I'm sorry that your job is taking it's toll on you, too. I hope that things get better for you there soon.
Poet
Posted by antigua on July 11, 2005, at 9:31:10
In reply to Re: Situational Depression » Jazzed, posted by Poet on July 10, 2005, at 17:24:29
Hi Poet,
Just wanted to send some encouragement your way--here's a life jacket if you need it too!
Give yourself a huge pat on the back--you HAVE come a long way since last summer. Everything about you sounds so much better than how you felt last year.
Take care,
antigua
Posted by Poet on July 11, 2005, at 18:31:52
In reply to Re: Situational Depression » Poet, posted by antigua on July 11, 2005, at 9:31:10
Hi Antigua,
I'll take that life jacket. It'll keep me afloat if I let go of the rope or oar.
I have come a long way from how I felt last summer. The water is not over my head.
Thanks.
Poet
Posted by Poet on July 11, 2005, at 19:00:10
In reply to Re: Situational Depression » Poet, posted by Jazzed on July 10, 2005, at 17:43:10
Hi Jazzy,
Former pdoc called my T to tell her that I was tapering myself off ADs, so she knows I'm not seeing him anymore. I know I shouldn't mess with meds doses, and I am back at where I was when I saw him in April: 225mg Effexor XR.
I did call pdocs, today, one isn't taking new patients and the other one I left a message for. If she isn't taking on new patients, I've got others to call. I really think I am okay waiting. Somebody in crises needs to get in right away, I hope I am not going into crises.
I was on Paxil last summer when I crashed. It stopped working the same time I stopped working (quit hell job.) I think some ADs do help with obsessive thoughts. Try checking out the meds board.
I don't know why some people can just let things go. My husband can. He meditates everyday, so maybe that's why. I can't get my brain to shut down long enough to concentrate on one thing. Unless it's to repeat something negative over and over. That I do easily.
Poet
Posted by Poet on July 11, 2005, at 19:00:39
In reply to Re: Situational Depression, posted by Poet on July 11, 2005, at 19:00:10
Posted by Jazzed on July 11, 2005, at 20:56:28
In reply to Re: Situational Depression, posted by Poet on July 11, 2005, at 19:00:10
Hi Poet, well I hope the other is taking patients and the wait isn't too long. The only thing that consistently helps me not think negative thoughts or have too much anxiety is exercise, which I do vigorously every day 1 - 3 hours. If only I could exercise 16 hrs a day I'd probably be fine! LOL My hubby is very laid back and let's stuff go too. Must be nice! At least it's nice to have someone like that in our lives, esp. if they're supportive.
Jazzy
Posted by Dinah on July 11, 2005, at 22:14:15
In reply to Re: Situational Depression » Poet, posted by daisym on July 9, 2005, at 1:25:28
Daisy, I love that image.
It also would tend to imply that your medications are helping you, and I'm really glad for that. I know you were worried about taking them.
Posted by Dinah on July 11, 2005, at 22:20:59
In reply to Situational Depression, posted by Poet on July 9, 2005, at 0:54:26
I'm glad you called your pdoc.
Your job situation causes you stress, and stress has lots of physiological results, including lovely hormonal ones that trigger mood disturbances. It makes sense to attack things from both angles. Trying to reduce the stress with therapy and trying to even the resultant physical state with medication.
If you ever get the chance (and the money, because my insurance wouldn't cover it), you might give a look at biofeedback. It's another way of attacking the physical side of things, and might be especially helpful if you have trouble getting your brain to slow down enough to meditate.
I really enjoyed the biofeedback portion of my biofeedback sessions, and if I ever find another provider than biofeedback guy, I would love to give it another try.
Posted by Poet on July 11, 2005, at 22:53:28
In reply to Re: Situational Depression » Poet, posted by Dinah on July 11, 2005, at 22:20:59
Hi Dinah,
This is how bad my mind works. First thing I thought of was *I can't afford biofeedback* not hey, this might work and be worth the money. I should look into who offers it around here and how much it costs. Repeat 100 times I am worth it, I am worth it.
I'll post on how my search for a new pdoc goes. I really do need to have someone I can get into see if I crash. That insurance pays for. Sigh.
Poet
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