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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pinkeye on July 2, 2005, at 13:08:45
Something I realized today for the first time, it doesn't really matter all that much to me now, whether my ex T cared much about me or not. It really doesn't (atleast not today).
Somehow I have come to depend only on God to care for me, and that I am as ordinary as everyone around me is, and my ex T and my current T and everyone around me is just the same.
They are all humans and bound to fail, and their capacity for caring about another person is very limited. They can never care about me fully, it is only a difference of degrees anyway. God is the only one who can show real absolute care.
And really, all this talk about self esteem, self confidence, and self acceptance is finally actually only realizing that everyone is the same, and that you are as good or as worse as everyone around you is and that your chances are the same as for all including your T, ex T, father, mother, child etc.
A very wise thing my ex T used to say "We are all ordinary people living ordinary lives".. One thing he missed is perphaps at the end, he should have added, and we are all equally loved by God. That would have been complete.
Posted by 10derHeart on July 2, 2005, at 13:32:13
In reply to It doesn't matter that much whether T cares or not, posted by pinkeye on July 2, 2005, at 13:08:45
That's really a beautiful, simple yet profound thing, so well expressed, pinkeye.
Thanks for posting that.
And it's great you have that peace today.
Remember, if it fades for a while, to be replaced by that familiar doubt and pain, it WILL reappear again and that pattern is okay, too. I think God just made us that way. Each day isn't meant to be calm and even...the ups and downs are necessary. (you know I am telling you AND me this, right? :-) )
Just reach out to people (here and IRL) when the downs come, and let us rejoice with you when the peace and the wonderful *highs* come, too.
Have a great weekend, pinkeye
Posted by pinkeye on July 2, 2005, at 13:37:00
In reply to Re: It doesn't matter that much whether T cares or not » pinkeye, posted by 10derHeart on July 2, 2005, at 13:32:13
Thanks 10der.
I have become increasingly confident that it is really not possible to have mental health without full faith in God and active religious involvement. Really, the days when I am peaceful and calm are the days when I pray a little, and meditate with focus on God. It is the best thing that ever works for me. More than even emails from my ex T or great session with my current T or even a stunning insight. Actually now I feel insights are only half the game.. even with tons of insight, it is really not possible to be happy
Posted by alexandra_k on July 2, 2005, at 19:12:25
In reply to It doesn't matter that much whether T cares or not, posted by pinkeye on July 2, 2005, at 13:08:45
It sounds like he did care about you for a time.
I think...
That is life. People come and go. They come and might come to care about us for a time and then they move on. It is hard. But other people come along and so it goes on.Ourself
and God (if you are that way inclined)
are probably the only things that stick around.That sounds a little depressing - sorry.
I just mean that it is hard when you have to stop seeing somebody and they go out of your life.
I just try and remember the good times
And feel lucky that they cared about me for a little while at least.
Posted by pinkeye on July 2, 2005, at 19:17:22
In reply to Re: It doesn't matter that much whether T cares or not » pinkeye, posted by alexandra_k on July 2, 2005, at 19:12:25
he probably did care - but he got tired and bored and fed up, and now he doesn't. But God would care forever. So isn't that all the more reason to not expect much from humans?? and instead expect from God?
Posted by pinkeye on July 2, 2005, at 19:21:38
In reply to that is human nature - to care only for sometime » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on July 2, 2005, at 19:17:22
I am wondering - if the patients would do much better with their dependancy on their therapist if they from the beginning direct their patients to depend more on God rather than on them?? Instead of asking the patients to depend on the therapist, wouldn't it be less hurtful to ask the patient to depend on God and just use the therapist for some guidance?? Then it wouldn't have to like "ok now you depend on me, trust me, feel close to, tell me everything, share me everything" and tomorrow "ok now you no longer have me, you are a nuiscance, you are clingy, you are needy, nobody can fulfill you" kind of message to the patient? From the beginning the therapist can say "Trust in God and I will help you, but I am not God - you cannot depend on me fully"
Posted by alexandra_k on July 2, 2005, at 20:44:20
In reply to all the more reason to direct to people to God » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on July 2, 2005, at 19:21:38
Though that is begging the question regarding whether god exists or not.
I'm an athiest. If a therapist told me that I would not be impressed at all!
I find it hard when I have to stop seeing someone too.
And I find it hard thinking about how much they care for me and how much they are just doing their job etc etc.
And when they terminate me how much it is about them getting sick of seeing me / caring about me.
And whether they still care for me when they never want to see me again
:-(
And it is hard.I think they do care.
Probably not as much as we do - but then they would probably have a breakdown if they cared about their clients the way their clients cared about them.
I guess I just think... That they did care. And hope that they will remember me with kindness. Even if they terminate me saying that they can't afford to help / try and help / see me / care for me anymore. I hope they remember me with kindness when they do think of me.
Posted by pinkeye on July 2, 2005, at 20:59:42
In reply to Re: all the more reason to direct to people to God » pinkeye, posted by alexandra_k on July 2, 2005, at 20:44:20
>>>I guess I just think... That they did care. And hope that they will remember me with kindness. Even if they terminate me saying that they can't afford to help / try and help / see me / care for me anymore. I hope they remember me with kindness when they do think of me.
Hmm.. I don't have that confidence myself.. if a person cares, they won't let a person go through so much suffering and be silent.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 2, 2005, at 22:29:43
In reply to Re: all the more reason to direct to people to God » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on July 2, 2005, at 20:59:42
> Hmm.. I don't have that confidence myself.. if a person cares, they won't let a person go through so much suffering and be silent.
Well... To be a bit dramatic there are an awful lot of starving children in the world...
Lots of starving adults too.
Sick kids. Sick adults. Even on a local rather than global level sometimes people don't get what they need. I don't know. It is hard. But I do think that sometimes they need to let us go for them. For the other people they will spend that time with. It is hard. But I don't think it follows that they don't care and / or that they never really cared.
Posted by pinkeye on July 2, 2005, at 23:20:18
In reply to Re: all the more reason to direct to people to God » pinkeye, posted by alexandra_k on July 2, 2005, at 22:29:43
That is what I have tried to convince myelf with ... but somehow it still doesn't make too much sense.. I am becoming much better though..
Posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2005, at 15:53:32
In reply to Re: all the more reason to direct to people to God » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on July 2, 2005, at 23:20:18
> That is what I have tried to convince myelf with ... but somehow it still doesn't make too much sense.. I am becoming much better though..
Yeah, it is hard. Really hard.
I think... It really is a matter of faith.
It is something that you kind of have to talk yourself into.
It is something that transcends the evidence.
It is something that can make a whole heap of difference to how you relate to the people who are in your life and the people who will come into your life.
If you are able to be a little bit at peace with what happened then you are in a much much nicer place in the world then you would be if the world really was really unfair and vindictive etc.
Can you think back to some time in your life (or even some time you have seen on the movies or wherever) where someone cared for someone else but had to leave them anyway? Not so much because of factors outside their control - but within their control? Especially if you were the one that had to leave - that might help you see that that can happen sometimes.I think something like this is a process rather than a decision you only have to make once and then can just move on from it.
I still struggle a lot somedays and really rail at it...
Other days I'm sort of okay with it. Feel a bit peaceful about it. Even though it hurts it doesn't seem unbearable.
I think the hardest thing is to try not to fall into the idealising / devaluing pattern. The either there is something abhorrent about me or they are unnecessarily cruel / negligent pattern.
It is hard.
:-(
Posted by pinkeye on July 3, 2005, at 17:48:12
In reply to Re: all the more reason to direct to people to God » pinkeye, posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2005, at 15:53:32
Thanks Alex.
But still i really think what he did was not nice. he knowingly put me through extreme torture, and even after I told him, he kept silent. No therapist would do that.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2005, at 18:01:54
In reply to Re: all the more reason to direct to people to God » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on July 3, 2005, at 17:48:12
> he knowingly put me through extreme torture, and even after I told him, he kept silent. No therapist would do that.
Ok. Do you want to elaborate???
Posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2005, at 18:51:20
In reply to Re: all the more reason to direct to people to God » pinkeye, posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2005, at 18:01:54
Therapists are only human.
You are right about that.
They are people, just like you or me.
They have good days and bad days.
Days where they have a lot to offer.
Days where they are wrapped up in their own issues.
They are fallible and imperfect.
They make mistakes.Other people can't save us.
They can't save us from ourself.
And with me anyway... It is my hatred and fear of myself that is a huge chunk of the problem.
But they can't make all the hurt and bad feelings go away.
I imagine they would if they could - but they can't.
All they can do is try and help me see how I can make things better for myself.
Try and help me do that for a time.
And then...
Well, sometimes they do need to move on for whatever reason.
But I don't think they purposely intend for us to end up without someone trying to help us do that.
I don't think they intend for us to end up feeling like we are all alone with what is going on and feeling like nobody cares or will help us.
There are other people in the world.
People still care.
People will still help you.
But nobody can rescue you it is true.
And other people will come into your life and help you too.
Posted by happyflower on July 3, 2005, at 19:28:40
In reply to Re: all the more reason to direct to people to God, posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2005, at 18:51:20
Very nicely put! :)
Posted by pinkeye on July 3, 2005, at 21:15:17
In reply to Re: all the more reason to direct to people to God, posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2005, at 18:51:20
Thanks Alex. That was really very nicely put
But soemhow, I have come to the conclusion that therapy, insight, psychology is all only half the game. It will really not make you happy - not by a signifcant amount.
Somehow only praying helps me nowadays. I have tons and tons of insight into myself, and I have really put years into changing myself. But all those efforts don't match one day when I mediate and pray. Really that is what helps me these days. No amount of therapy or insight has helped calm my mind as much as a little bit of prayer.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 4, 2005, at 6:04:11
In reply to Re: all the more reason to direct to people to God » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on July 3, 2005, at 21:15:17
I find the same thing with meditation. It helps me feel centred and self-assured. Quiet and calm and at peace with myself.
Posted by pinkeye on July 4, 2005, at 11:37:57
In reply to Re: all the more reason to direct to people to God, posted by alexandra_k on July 4, 2005, at 6:04:11
Yeah, I actually don't even do meditation - some form of repeating the same mantra again adn again.. (since I usually find meditation difficult for me to do.. ) - so even that works. I will be feeling tortured the whole day, and just in 5 minutes after starting my kind of repeating the mantra, I will be calm and peaceful.
This is the end of the thread.
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