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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by crushedout on May 4, 2005, at 20:27:17
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » crushedout, posted by Tamar on May 3, 2005, at 4:37:58
Hi Tamar,I could really relate to your post. I tend to be kind of vulgar and flirtatious, too, when I talk about sex with friends, so it makes sense that that might feel weird with my T, with whom I have a unidirectional, professional relationship.
I also tend to be vague. The clinical terms disturb me. I hate them. But I also feel uncomfortable using *really* vulgar terms.
I wish we could use concrete examples in this thread. Why am I embarrassed to? I mean, with asterisks, of course. OK, so, for example I would always say "have sex" instead of "f---" but "have sex" sounds sooo boring. But I would feel too weird saying "f---." That's just one example.
Thanks to everyone for their posts, which were truly fascinating. I'd love to continue this conversation.
Posted by littleone on May 4, 2005, at 20:53:30
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » Tamar, posted by crushedout on May 4, 2005, at 20:27:17
My T asked me the other day if I'd "had any action". That sounded weird from him.
I hate writing stuff about sex in my write ups. Firstly, because it's obviously embarrasing and uncomfortable, but secondly because it's always the very first thing he will jump on. I swear that he loves talking about sex. And his bookcase full of psych books seems to have a lot more sex therapy books than any other types.
Maybe he always wished he'd gone into sex therapy instead.
Maybe I should suggest to him that he see someone about this apparent over-eagerness. I bet I'd get his foot waggling on that one :)
Posted by Dinah on May 4, 2005, at 21:00:27
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » crushedout, posted by littleone on May 4, 2005, at 20:53:30
Posted by Tamar on May 6, 2005, at 2:19:43
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » Tamar, posted by crushedout on May 4, 2005, at 20:27:17
> I wish we could use concrete examples in this thread. Why am I embarrassed to? I mean, with asterisks, of course. OK, so, for example I would always say "have sex" instead of "f---" but "have sex" sounds sooo boring. But I would feel too weird saying "f---." That's just one example.
>
> Thanks to everyone for their posts, which were truly fascinating. I'd love to continue this conversation.Well, I do think it's helpful to have a list of terms you can use comfortably in therapy. I know what you mean about 'have sex' sounding boring. I also tend to think that men (even therapists) are programmed to think that having sex is an act of penetration, whereas when I use the word ‘sex’ I mean *all* the sexual things that people can do. But your therapist is a woman, yes?
I like ‘get it on’ as a compromise between ‘have sex’ and ‘f***’. And I can’t, under any circumstances, say the word m*st*rb*te: it just sounds like something I should confess to a priest – and I’m not even catholic. So I have to resort to ‘touch myself’. Also I can’t say *rg*sm. Even typing it with asterisks makes me feel a bit wobbly (and not in a good way)!
And then there’s the minefield of finding acceptable words for body parts...
Posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 2:44:40
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » crushedout, posted by Tamar on May 6, 2005, at 2:19:43
Chuckle. I don't think I could use slang expressions. I use the very clinical terms.
I asked my therapist if he was embarassed at the sexual topics we've been covering lately, and he admitted to being a bit embarassed. I asked because it occurred to me, yet even so I was surprised. I have a way of making sex sound decidedly unerotic.
In fact, my husband says I can do that with any number of topics. I spoiled his college years by telling him I didn't think drunks were anything like "Arthur". That they didn't look rosy to me. They looked pale, flaccid, and sweaty. He just couldn't get drunk after that. ;)
P.S. My slightly embarassed therapist ended up passing on a bit of sexual education that shocked even me. I guess he wanted to pay me back for educating him on feminine anatomy. So I guess talking about being embarassed cured him of it. lol.
Posted by Tamar on May 6, 2005, at 3:50:51
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » Tamar, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 2:44:40
> Chuckle. I don't think I could use slang expressions. I use the very clinical terms.
I suppose that keeps it feeling very professional. I find it uncomfortable, though. I don't like professional detachment much. When I was pregnant I used to joke with my husband about the pelvic exams: I said it would be easier if the doctor would pour a couple of glasses of wine and I would light some candles. In the event, of course, romance with my doctor was the last thing on my mind!
> I asked my therapist if he was embarassed at the sexual topics we've been covering lately, and he admitted to being a bit embarassed. I asked because it occurred to me, yet even so I was surprised. I have a way of making sex sound decidedly unerotic.
How interesting! I never feel embarrassed if other people tell me sexual things - only if I'm the one doing the self-revelation. I wonder why a T would feel embarrassed...
> In fact, my husband says I can do that with any number of topics. I spoiled his college years by telling him I didn't think drunks were anything like "Arthur". That they didn't look rosy to me. They looked pale, flaccid, and sweaty. He just couldn't get drunk after that. ;)
Well, that’s true. The only way to enjoy the company of drunk people is if you’re drunk yourself. I didn’t realise the extent of it until I was pregnant and not drinking to excess :)
> P.S. My slightly embarassed therapist ended up passing on a bit of sexual education that shocked even me. I guess he wanted to pay me back for educating him on feminine anatomy. So I guess talking about being embarassed cured him of it. lol.Care to share? I’m quite intrigued!
Posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 7:10:53
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » Dinah, posted by Tamar on May 6, 2005, at 3:50:51
> > Chuckle. I don't think I could use slang expressions. I use the very clinical terms.
>
> I suppose that keeps it feeling very professional. I find it uncomfortable, though. I don't like professional detachment much. When I was pregnant I used to joke with my husband about the pelvic exams: I said it would be easier if the doctor would pour a couple of glasses of wine and I would light some candles. In the event, of course, romance with my doctor was the last thing on my mind!lol. Yeah, I was so certain I didn't want any male doctors looking down there. But when the time came, it could have been Scott Bakula as long as he was helping that baby move.
>
> > I asked my therapist if he was embarassed at the sexual topics we've been covering lately, and he admitted to being a bit embarassed. I asked because it occurred to me, yet even so I was surprised. I have a way of making sex sound decidedly unerotic.
>
> How interesting! I never feel embarrassed if other people tell me sexual things - only if I'm the one doing the self-revelation. I wonder why a T would feel embarrassed...He's not sitting in silence. He's asking me questions about what I'm saying, and in some case asking me to elucidate. No revelation of anything to do with himself, but I guess it's still slightly embarassing.
>
> > P.S. My slightly embarassed therapist ended up passing on a bit of sexual education that shocked even me. I guess he wanted to pay me back for educating him on feminine anatomy. So I guess talking about being embarassed cured him of it. lol.
>
> Care to share? I’m quite intrigued!
>
>
Chuckle. It had to do with a visit we took when I was probably technically underage on the occasion of a friend's bachelorette party to an adult bookstore. And my belief that the guy looking through the hole in the rooms in the back wasn't doing such a good job making sure that people weren't doing anything that might get him in violation of his license, judging from the condition of the cubicles. Because I didn't hardly look at the movie in my horrified (and fascinated, there were tons of scientific issues involved) perusal of the cubicle. And my therapist did some follow up questions (about trauma I guess) that included informing me that that wasn't the security guard looking through a peep hole for purposes of ensuring no one enjoyed the movie too much.Eeeeeeeek. I can't believe we did that. I can't believe how badly it could have come out. Instead of feeling grossed out now, I feel strangely blessed. And I managed to go 43 years without knowing that.
>
Hope that's not too much information. :)
Posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 7:11:22
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » Dinah, posted by Tamar on May 6, 2005, at 3:50:51
Posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 7:33:46
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Icky Trigger., posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 7:10:53
Oh lordy, I just talked about it yesterday. Ick ick ick ick ick. I can't believe the things I say. But if you want to share what is on your mind, what is confusing or upsetting, or whatever, you really have to be specific. Because sex is such a broad topic.
Yesterday we were talking about a specific act (thanks a hell of a lot, Tofu Emmy!) that I had feelings and thoughts associated with.
How about sex word flash cards, so you don't actually have to say it? Just hold up the card you want and good lord, don't make eye contact!
Sigh, it's so embarrassing.
And no biscuit for emmy. :)
gg
Posted by crushedout on May 6, 2005, at 9:04:32
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Icky Trigger., posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 7:33:46
is this emmy thing an inside joke? fill us in.....:)
Posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 9:50:39
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Icky Trigger. » gardenergirl, posted by crushedout on May 6, 2005, at 9:04:32
Oh, she just said something the other night (about a specific act) that I had a reaction to. It's what I talked to my T about.
It's good that she said that, because I didn't know I would react that way, and it bothers me.
And sorry, I don't want to be more explicit without flash cards. :D
gg
Posted by crushedout on May 6, 2005, at 10:01:10
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Icky Trigger. » crushedout, posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 9:50:39
awwww, man. i'm trying so hard to get people to be real explicit on this thread (not just to get my jollies but to know what other people actually *say* or *don't* say). but i guess if we can't do it anonymously online without flashcards, that explains why it's so frickin' embarrassing in person with our Ts.
Posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 11:28:25
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Icky Trigger., posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 7:33:46
I really like that idea, gg. :) I was thinking of insisting we do the sessions in writing, like we had each had a tonsillectomy, but flashcards are more efficient.
Actually I'm getting a wee bit better. I think he's slowly desensitizing me. Venturing a bit here, and when I shy away pulling away any pressure. Then inserting it into what feels like casual conversation a bit later. Dropping a topic that I flatly refused to discuss, but introducing equally explicit ones that I didn't mind discussing, then meandering back to edge along the first topic.
Dang he's good.
Going every day this week was helpful because it facilitated that sort of interaction. I'm back to twice a week next week and that will be harder. He's left the door open to doing more intense work and scheduling more sessions, but I don't know that I can afford it. :(
On the other hand, we've done more intense work this past week than we've done in the entire ten years I've been seeing him. I brought in something that I wrote (Don't ask me what because I thought he'd give me back that copy and didn't keep it. It was sort of a loose associations of memories on sexual moments growing up.) He took more notes on that sheet of paper over the course of two days than I've seen him take in a normal couple of months. I sort of hate to slow the momentum.
Posted by fallsfall on May 6, 2005, at 12:40:30
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Flashcards » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 11:28:25
>On the other hand, we've done more intense work this past week than we've done in the entire ten years I've been seeing him.
I'm so proud of you, Dinah.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 13:07:43
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Flashcards » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 11:28:25
Wow, good for you. I always think it's a good idea to "make hay while the sun shines."
I'm going to twice a week starting next week. Considering how awkward and self-conscious I felt the other day, I sure hope that I can get past that by going more often.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 13:08:20
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Icky Trigger. » gardenergirl, posted by crushedout on May 6, 2005, at 10:01:10
I understand. I just don't want to be that explicit for posterity. :-D
gg
Posted by crushedout on May 6, 2005, at 13:13:34
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Icky Trigger. » crushedout, posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 13:08:20
hmm, yeah, i hadn't thought about it that way. well, if you T. writes stuff down, I guess that could be permanent also. (Mine writes EVERYTHING down. it's weird but i also kinda like it.)
Posted by JenStar on May 7, 2005, at 17:47:16
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Icky Trigger. » gardenergirl, posted by crushedout on May 6, 2005, at 13:13:34
I'm curious about how many T's "force the topic" or ask about sex when you've been seeing them for a while. Does it always come up? If you don't want to talk about it, is that a topic for analysis in itself? I myself am not that comfortable talking about sex with even my friends (explicitly.) We're just not "Sex in the City" kind of gals when it comes to guy talk (although I loved that show and wasn't embarrassed to WATCH it with people, or anything! It's just when it comes to ME, I don't share those personal details easily.) So for me, it's not something I'd feel "right" talking to a T about - esp. questions about masturbation, fantasies, etc.
Do all of your T bring it up at some time? Is it something that HAS to be discussed for healthy therapy?
JenStar
Posted by crushedout on May 7, 2005, at 17:52:24
In reply to does every T bring up sex at some point?, posted by JenStar on May 7, 2005, at 17:47:16
I wish. I'd love it if they brought it up. I often avoid the topic but I'd really like to talk about it all the time. I know this may seem to contradict stuff I said earlier, but it doesn't.
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2005, at 18:39:06
In reply to does every T bring up sex at some point?, posted by JenStar on May 7, 2005, at 17:47:16
Mine brought it up in the natural course of events the first few months of therapy. Must be part of his standard quality of life agenda.
After that he never brought it up unless I do.
Sometimes he'll ask me in a later session if I've thought about something from an earlier session, but that's not bringing it up out of the blue.
Posted by crushedout on May 7, 2005, at 18:47:06
In reply to Re: does every T bring up sex at some point? » JenStar, posted by Dinah on May 7, 2005, at 18:39:06
Mine only brings it up when it seems like it might be relevant. Not just out of the blue, like, when there's a lull she never says, "So... been masturbating a lot lately???" I s'pose that might make me uncomfortable.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 7, 2005, at 19:20:43
In reply to does every T bring up sex at some point?, posted by JenStar on May 7, 2005, at 17:47:16
> I'm curious about how many T's "force the topic" or ask about sex when you've been seeing them for a while. Does it always come up? If you don't want to talk about it, is that a topic for analysis in itself?
My T has brought up content from previous sessions related to sex. He actually brought up my fantasies once! Yiii! But of course I had already told them to him. He also once brought it up as an observation that I was avoiding talking about it. I had been talking about it previous sessions, and then we had a week or two off for some reason (I forget). And when we resumed, I didn't go back to it for a few weeks, and in the meantime found myself in another depressive episode. His theory was he had failed to make a critical interpretation before, and that may have made me deteriorate.
>I myself am not that comfortable talking about sex with even my friends (explicitly.) We're just not "Sex in the City" kind of gals when it comes to guy talk (although I loved that show and wasn't embarrassed to WATCH it with people, or anything!
Same with me. I almost never talk about sex, especially explicitly. I do have a friend I talk to about it. She helps me with all my naive questions, since I've always been kind of sheltered. Kind of like you would ask a big sister. ((((My honorary big sis!))))
>It's just when it comes to ME, I don't share those personal details easily.) So for me, it's not something I'd feel "right" talking to a T about - esp. questions about masturbation, fantasies, etc.
If you don't have any issues with sex, it's certainly not necessary to talk about it. And even if you do, you don't have to talk about it. But it can help. But boy, I still get embarrassed sometimes!
>
>gg
Posted by 10derHeart on May 7, 2005, at 22:21:57
In reply to Re: does every T bring up sex at some point?, posted by crushedout on May 7, 2005, at 18:47:06
Posted by 10derHeart on May 7, 2005, at 22:51:16
In reply to LOL! crushed...you crack me up..thanks! (nm) » crushedout, posted by 10derHeart on May 7, 2005, at 22:21:57
...if a T. did ever ask me that, especially a male (which I've mostly worked with), I swear I'd snap back, calmly and straight-faced, "Maybe. Have you?"
I would. 'cause I'm generally a smart*ss when confronted like that.
'course it likely would never happen...but sounds kind of like a fun (and embarrassing) challenge to me... ;-)
errr...the conservation *about* the topic, I meant, not the actual....
Posted by pinkeye on May 8, 2005, at 12:12:03
In reply to does every T bring up sex at some point?, posted by JenStar on May 7, 2005, at 17:47:16
If you don't have any issues around it, even if the T brings it up, you can say you are fine in that aspect.
I am not a very open sex talking kind of person either.. But I was glad that my T atleast opened the gate for me intiially, he asked if there were any problems between me and my husband about it. And that helped me go back to him later when I did have some problems with my husband.
I think all Ts need to open it up with their clients. But I am pretty sure a good T will sense your level of comfortness and openess and will suit his/her words/choices around what is comfortable for you.
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