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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 15 to 39 of 39. Go back in thread:
Posted by pinkeye on April 26, 2005, at 18:40:45
In reply to Re: Why would anyone like me? **Trigger** » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 18:30:52
And I want to send one last email to my T, and ask him to atleast say that he liked me.. even if he didn't mean it. That will atleast give me something to move on. I am not able to move on with this at all.
But I am afraid to do that.. it will again just get no response. And even if he did respond, he might just punish me more.. and say he hates me or something like that.
Posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 18:43:51
In reply to Re: Why would anyone like me? **Trigger** » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on April 26, 2005, at 18:34:08
Would it help to keep your posts from the good days handy?
I'm not really an expert on this, but I've heard that being in love is sort of like that. When a relationship ends, it takes a lot of obsessing about it for some people to get over it. That's why we go to therapists.
I've never really been in love with anyone who didn't love me back. At least enough to marry me. Maybe not like Luke and Laura or anything.
But if my therapist were to terminate me and I lived, I imagine it would be sort of like that even though I only love him, I'm not in love with him. Or maybe I'd forget all about him the next day. Dissociation has its virtues.
Posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 18:45:10
In reply to Re: Why would anyone like me? **Trigger** » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on April 26, 2005, at 18:40:45
He wouldn't punish you. But didn't you say you already asked him? I imagine his answer would be more or less the same.
Posted by pinkeye on April 26, 2005, at 18:53:40
In reply to Re: Why would anyone like me? **Trigger** » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 18:43:51
I have tried looking at the posts from the good days - they only make me more sick.
I don't think I am in love with him. I don't think I ever was. I don't really know him all that well. For that matter, I don't know if I have ever been in love with anyone in my life. Looking back, all the men I was attracted to was a result of some sort of transference on my part.
It is mostly some sort of transference, most likely from my dad.
Posted by pinkeye on April 26, 2005, at 18:54:38
In reply to Re: Why would anyone like me? **Trigger** » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 18:45:10
Yeah I have asked and gotten either indifference as response or no response at all. Pushing it further will probably lead to some sort of psychological punishment for me. And I don't dare to do it.
Posted by pinkeye on April 26, 2005, at 19:06:20
In reply to Re: Why would anyone like me? **Trigger** » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 18:43:51
Anyway, your post just threw some light into this falling in love thing for me. I think I will never fall in love wiht anyone. If they didn't love me back, I would most likely end up killing myself. I am just way too scared to really let myself fall in love with anyone. Sorry I am just rambling rambling rambling today. thanks for being patient with me.
Posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 19:31:08
In reply to Re: Why would anyone like me? **Trigger** » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on April 26, 2005, at 19:06:20
Talking to you requires no patience. :) It's a pleasure.
I'm sorry this is causing you so much pain, but I do understand. I'm planning to kill myself if my therapist ever terminates me, you know.
Not very enlightened of me.
Posted by pinkeye on April 26, 2005, at 19:36:48
In reply to Re: Why would anyone like me? **Trigger** » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 19:31:08
Thanks :-)
I am actually quite amazed that your therapist let you stay with him for nearly 10 years. But then maybe if my ex T had continued practicing, maybe I would have just tried to cling on to him. I still cannot forgive him for terminating me. He actually had pretty valid reasons. But I think I will never understand.
Do you know if it is really to do with my dad? My new T keeps saying that all my intense attachment, my fear of not being loved back, my getting hurt so much is actually in response to my experiences with my dad. I am breaking my head to try to understand it, but not able to.
Posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 19:53:41
In reply to Re: Why would anyone like me? **Trigger** » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on April 26, 2005, at 19:36:48
I don't know. Could be.
I don't think mine had anything to do with either parent. My attachment to him is based more on the fact that he feels like no one I've ever met before in my entire life.
He said something sort of intriguing today. He said that when he stands up from the chair he sits on in therapy, he transitions from therapist back to his normal self. So that when he's doing the paperwork of the visit, he's not quite the same person he is when he's in his chair.
I don't know the him outside his chair all that well. I'm not sure if I'd like it. I am sure I don't want to get to know it. But the him in that chair gives me something I need like mothers milk. If there's anything I learned from having no sessions for nearly two weeks, it's how much my day to day stability depends on that maintenance therapy.
I'm not saying it's necessarily healthy. My therapist, being a bottom line sort of guy, thinks it is healthy because I'm not being self destructive the way I was before.
Posted by pinkeye on April 26, 2005, at 20:07:02
In reply to Re: Why would anyone like me? **Trigger** » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 19:53:41
Actually I appreciate the fact that your therapist has been behaving in such a humane fashion with you. That is what we need more than anything else in a T. I am glad you have him.
I think I need to put a stop to my rumination aobut my ex T not liking me. He is not even going to write to me again, maybe not even once in my life time I will ever hear from him. What is the use in getting frustrated so much you know? For all I know he must have even forgotten all about me by now. It has been 3 months since he terminated, and hasn't responded even once. And I think he would have just become very busy in the new city he has moved in.. and will be meeting lot of new people and will be very busy. He didn't have time for me when he had a more laid back life, now he is in a big city - he must have forgotten everything about me completely.
Posted by Shortelise on April 27, 2005, at 0:19:38
In reply to Why would anyone like me? **Trigger**, posted by pinkeye on April 26, 2005, at 16:10:02
((pinkeye))
I just hate this for you.
But I'll tell you this: we choose our friends.
I hope you chose you therapist.
Any so-called friends of mine who suddenly find themselves indisposed when I am going through a rough spot are off the invitation list for New Years Eve!
Pinkeye, we make it what it is. It's not like there's some pattern lain out by the universe that we are forced to follow. No one points a finger and says, you are going to be friends with him and her and her and him. The woman at your favourite cafe might be your best friend - you just don't know it yet - you kow the one - she always notices when you're having a bad day. Or maybe there is no one like that you've noticed, maybe because you're not looking, or maybe because you're so sure that you're unloveable that you send out those vibes.
You could try a day where you look everyone in the eye - strangers as well as people you like. Look 'em all in the eye, and send a friendly look, a "I'm a nice person" look. Real in the eye stuff, real open, see what's in here, look at what's out there.
WHen I first started doing this, it amazedme how many people responded with kindness as soon as they understood that I was going to be nice. As soon as I let my guard down, and showed them how soft and kind I am in here, wow, most of them, not all, but most were just as gentle. I can go for coffee any day of the week and feel ... better. Just walking to a cafe, just being open and saying hello to others, looking them in the face, seeing them, actually seeing them instead of looking through them as I often used to do because I was afraid they were going to sneer or snub or ignore me.
Ok, it's my experience, and I don't know what yours is, and pinkeye, I am so so so sad for you that you feel no one cares. But I believe a lot of people may feel something like this too.
((pinkeye))
ShortE
Posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 12:51:43
In reply to Re: Why would anyone like me? **Trigger** » pinkeye, posted by Shortelise on April 27, 2005, at 0:19:38
Thanks ShortE. I have been trying to make new friends for the past 2 years, ever since I started going to my ex T. But sometimes I still fall into the old patterns..
Thanks for pointing out that. What you have had to say is really beautiful. I have observed it myself too sometimes.
Thanks again.
Posted by Shortelise on April 27, 2005, at 14:30:04
In reply to Re: Why would anyone like me? **Trigger** » Shortelise, posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 12:51:43
Sometimes I get tired of trying. Sometimes it's easier to just tred the old paths, let my minds fall into the well-worn patterns that take no thought, no effort. Painful but familiar. I don't know why I do it. But I do. It might be the same for others. I do reallly get this. Self- loathing is insidious, hard to throw off and so easy to project onto others. And I think too that we do that self - fulfilling prophecy thing where we choose people who will do to us what we expect them to do ... do you see what I mean?
Honestly, I haven't read what else has been written here - I am working and running, and stressed. Your subject line called to me and I had to talk with you about this. Pinkeye, I say this to you but also to myself, let's not do this, let's love ourselves, let's live well, let's let ourselves make healthy choices in our friends, be lonely for a while if that's what it takes. This is what we have. And I just don't believe that anyone is innately not likeable. I know I act like a twit sometimes, but that does not mean, can not mean, I am thoroughly dislikeable.
Ugh. I do find this so ... sad, awful, hard. I am again so sorry you are dealing with this. But get through it, face it, get it out there! Then buy a dress and go for a walk. Um are you a woman? It doesn't matter. If you aren't you could still buy a dress, but maybe not wear it on your walk unless you are really in the right mood.
SHortE
Posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 14:53:48
In reply to Re: Why would anyone like me? **Trigger** » pinkeye, posted by Shortelise on April 27, 2005, at 14:30:04
:-)
I am a woman. I can buy a dress :-)Thanks for the input Short E. I know you have been working on trying to be on your own and terminate with your T as well. I think termination kind of puts things into the old track again.
But I will fight that. I won't let go of all that I learnt. I agree with whatever you have said.
Posted by Susan47 on April 27, 2005, at 20:47:29
In reply to Re: Why would anyone like me? **Trigger** » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on April 26, 2005, at 18:09:35
I'm thinking that one of the jobs your therapist had was to help you feel lovable. I think he badly failed you in that way.
Posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 21:08:20
In reply to Pinkeye, posted by Susan47 on April 27, 2005, at 20:47:29
Possibly. But I think that was not what he was trained to do in India. Even the extent he showed me caring was probably not taught there. I think even that he learnt on his own. Maybe I just cannot expect more than that from him.
Besides, there are huge cultural differences from the US to where he lives. You cannot even talk to other married woman on such a personal level there. If he went and told his patients he loved them, their husbands would come to beat him up. It is that kind of culture. He couldn't possibly have been more open and friendly towards me.
Posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 21:24:20
In reply to Re: Pinkeye » Susan47, posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 21:08:20
But maybe he could have done me a huge favor by telling me his limitations beforehand, instead of just letting me figure out everything by myself.
I wouldn't have been so hurt if he had told me something like atleast he enjoyed treating me or something like that. Or he liked having me as a client.. That would have been something to go by.
Total indifference was what was extremely hard to digest. Maybe you are right Susan. I thought I deserved a little bit more display of warmth on his part after 2 and a half years of being his patient.
Posted by 10derHeart on April 28, 2005, at 10:09:52
In reply to Why would anyone like me? **Trigger**, posted by pinkeye on April 26, 2005, at 16:10:02
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 12:40:56
In reply to I say...why would anyone NOT like you! ((pinkeye)) (nm) » pinkeye, posted by 10derHeart on April 28, 2005, at 10:09:52
Thanks. Today is the end of the 2 day cycle and I am feeling much better.. Usually this lasts only 2 - 3 days and then I go back to why my T left me question. Let me see if atleast this time it prolongs for a longer time:-)
Thanks 10derHeart. You made my day today :-)
Posted by Susan47 on April 28, 2005, at 15:09:55
In reply to Re: Pinkeye » Susan47, posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 21:08:20
I learned you don't ever have to touch someone to help them feel like they're worthy and lovable.
I'm maintaining your therapist in India wasn't able to do that for you. Maybe the one here isn't doing that for you either. But to me it's just evident that you don't feel worthy of deep love.
I apologize if I'm wrong, and I realize that I probably am, but, oh well ... it's one of those days.
Posted by Susan47 on April 28, 2005, at 15:11:20
In reply to Re: Pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 21:24:20
And it isn't even all those rehearsed things that are said, that make us feel lovable either. It's the eyes. The eyes always say everything. A therapist who's capable of loving his clients is invaluable.
Posted by Susan47 on April 28, 2005, at 15:16:57
In reply to Re: I say...why would anyone NOT like you! ((pinkeye)) » 10derHeart, posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 12:40:56
I'm wondering if he terminated you because of the cultural restrictions surrounding men and women, and for whatever reason he didn't know whether he should communicate that to you. In my own opinion, it's wrong to leave a human being gasping for air, wondering whether they're better off dead or alive. I could not be a therapist who always followed the rules. On a personal ethics level it just wouldn't work, so I'm glad I was never a therapist. I don't have the backbone for that kind of work. :)
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 15:21:53
In reply to Re: Pinkeye » pinkeye, posted by Susan47 on April 28, 2005, at 15:11:20
What you have said is true.. People are capable of speaking volumes with eyes.. But I was 20000 miles apart for most of my therapy, and I never heard his voice or saw his eyes. That might have probably meant something. He needed to be very verbatim with me - because all my therapy was done through emails.. and I think that is where it didn't work. Welcome to email psychiatry!!
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 15:24:16
In reply to Re: I say...why would anyone NOT like you! ((pinkeye)) » pinkeye, posted by Susan47 on April 28, 2005, at 15:16:57
Maybe true. He might have also assumed that I knew the rules in India and didn't feel like telling me explicitly. But I have already become half indian and half american.. and my boundaries and expectations had becoem quite different from what it used to be 7 years back when I lived in India.
Anyway, never do cross cultural, email therapy. That is my take from all this.
Posted by Susan47 on April 29, 2005, at 12:00:30
In reply to Re: I say...why would anyone NOT like you! ((pinkeye)) » Susan47, posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 15:24:16
Well now, I think that really has to do with the issues at hand, who is giving and receiving the "therapy", and what stage of personal development she/he are at. Because I think email and phone therapy do work in many cases. I have a friend who phones her therapist in another country for an hour-long telephone appointment regularly, and it's working for her, has worked for years, she's very happy with her therapist and grateful that she can do therapy with her this way, rather than not at all. Because she would have a lot of trouble connecting with anyone else on that basis, that level.
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