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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Shortelise on April 23, 2005, at 21:47:52
when he said that if I go back to see him after termination (if I need to see him a few times sometime in the future) that "it wouldn't be the same"? Any ideas?
I finally phoned yesterday and made appointments for one month apart until Sept. I had to cancel the appt I had for May 2 because I got a job for that day. (I have two days of work lined up for May - and one falls on the only day I had an appointment with ANYone.)
I cried the entire time on the phone with his receptionist. She's so sweet. She offered me an appointment next Thursday, thinking I would want it as I was so obviously upset, but it's too soon.
I feel like such an idiot. I know I'm not, but I just can't help feeling that I'm doing something wrong, and if I weren't, he'd treat me ina way that would feel ok, and this wouldn't be so painful.
*sigh*
ShortE
Posted by Dinah on April 23, 2005, at 21:53:21
In reply to what did T mean?, posted by Shortelise on April 23, 2005, at 21:47:52
I think it's painful by necessity. You aren't doing anything wrong.
When we go home as kids who have been on our own, it doesn't feel the same as when we lived there. We view our parents from a bit of distance. When we see friends we haven't seen for a while, it's not the same as seeing them all the time. We've grown and they've grown.
I expect that's all he means. Just as once a week therapy and twice a week therapy are different, and once a month and once a week therapy are different, therapy as needed after termination is different. You won't view him in just the same way, because he won't have just the same role in your life. You'll have grown and developed some distance.
It stinks. :( I'm sorry.
Posted by annierose on April 23, 2005, at 22:02:32
In reply to what did T mean?, posted by Shortelise on April 23, 2005, at 21:47:52
I love Dinah's explanation, I think it's just right. The connection will not be as strong, and you'll be seeing him through a different prespective.
If you want to see him sooner, you should take the earlier appointment. There is no one way to begin this process. Take your time if you are able. I know, I wouldn't rush through.
Posted by gardenergirl on April 24, 2005, at 0:38:01
In reply to Re: what did T mean? » Shortelise, posted by annierose on April 23, 2005, at 22:02:32
I agree, I think he's just saying it will feel different. Perhaps as a heads-up? Or perhaps as a way of offering encouragement to you...that you will have some distance, and that will be okay?
Take care of yourself. I am sure this is not an easy process. Not looking forward to the when the day comes for me.
gg
Posted by pinkeye on April 24, 2005, at 12:44:44
In reply to what did T mean?, posted by Shortelise on April 23, 2005, at 21:47:52
I hate getting messages like that. From anyone..It would make me feel really really bad if my therapist says things like that to me. I never like it when the other person seems to imply that I am being too needy or somehow that I need to be able to go on my own without them.. But for that matter, I never terminate any relationships myself.. I am never good at it. Even if the other person is not that good and makes my life hell, I never ever terminate contact with anyone in my life.. I totally hate it when people do it.. when they just toss people out of their lives like a piece of object.. And I totally hate the termination phase of therapy. It just somehow doesn't make sense to me.. I feel like saying, if this all that I meant after so many years, that I can be terminated and just thrown out of their lives one day, why did I even bother so much for so long? Somehow it doesn't make sense. I think if I were a director of therapy model, I would really revise the termination model that therapists should do with their clients. I would always allow plenty of contact after termination - for the life time of the patient if needed - as long as the therapist practices and the patient can pay.. That would really be much more humane approach instead of the therapists throwing patients out of their lives one fine day and expecting them to live with it. It is just totally not humane.
Posted by Shortelise on April 24, 2005, at 12:50:13
In reply to Re: what did T mean? » Shortelise, posted by Dinah on April 23, 2005, at 21:53:21
It felt like he was telling me he wouldn't be as kind, or as nurturing.
It's funny, but I feel pretty happy. My garden is filling my heart, tiny leaves are popping out of the ground, plants I've put in are strong and healthy for the most part, and the lilacs I planted over the past two years are covered in fragrant, beautiful blooms. I've got work I a m happy with, friends who bring enrich my life, and a small family of a husband and two cats who fill my heart and home.
THen there is this other side, this side that is underneath it all, this thing, this "bete noire" that I've struggled with in therapy, and that lives on in therapy. Maybe that's it. Maybe in continuing to see him I am prolonging the life of the bete noire, instead of laying it to rest?
That's interesting and I think, by Google, that it may be where he and I are diverging. He thinks my attachment is to him, and it is to an extent - but part of it is an attachment to the depression and self-loathing that has been part of my life all of my life - until now. When I walk away from him, from my T, I am also admitting that the bete noire is diminished, and I have to be someone wihout it.
These ideas are coming out of my fingers as I write, with no forethought. For give me as I continue, but I see now there are two things going on for me here - one is the loss of his "care" and the other is the loss of my demons.
Thanks Dinah. I want to grow, I want to grow as my garden does, in a tangle of colour and roots, leaves and branches, up to the sky, and into the ground.
ShortE
Posted by Shortelise on April 24, 2005, at 12:52:41
In reply to Re: what did T mean? » Shortelise, posted by annierose on April 23, 2005, at 22:02:32
Thanks Annierose, I am trying so very hard to be the "good" client when in fact I want to kick him in the shins. He smelled like a big onion the last time I saw him and I wanted to tell him he did, and THEN kick him in the shins.
I neeed to wait, need to let some time pass, need to settle into my own head again before I see him again, that short, mean, onion man.
ShortE
Posted by Shortelise on April 24, 2005, at 12:56:17
In reply to Re: what did T mean?, posted by gardenergirl on April 24, 2005, at 0:38:01
It was definitely a heads-up, gg. But it didn't feel like encouragement at all. More a warning.
It's so odd, but when he said it, I felt that, but it didn't percolate into conciousness until you wrote it. One of the reasons one needs people to discuss these things with!
Do read what I wrote to Dinah, if you have a moment.
ShortE
Posted by Shortelise on April 24, 2005, at 12:58:54
In reply to Re: what did T mean? » Shortelise, posted by pinkeye on April 24, 2005, at 12:44:44
Pinkeye, I just want to hug you. You are talking right into my heart. Thank you.
(((pinkeye)))ShortE
Posted by pinkeye on April 24, 2005, at 13:03:13
In reply to Re: what did T mean? » pinkeye, posted by Shortelise on April 24, 2005, at 12:58:54
It makes us feel like total crap doesn't it? It starts to imply somehow that we are becoming like a burden and unwanted association, and I really feel like crap when I become like a burden and intruder into someone's life.
Posted by pinkeye on April 24, 2005, at 13:15:43
In reply to Re: what did T mean? » pinkeye, posted by Shortelise on April 24, 2005, at 12:58:54
But maybe it is a necessary evil. If all the patinets want all their therapists to be there for their lifetime, it just wouldn't work. Someday we just need to let go and move on. Only when the therapists seem to force it, it kind of sucks. But maybe it is for the good in the long run. I don't know. I wish there was an alternative approach.
Posted by LadyBug on April 24, 2005, at 13:28:45
In reply to Re: what did T mean? » Shortelise, posted by pinkeye on April 24, 2005, at 13:15:43
My T. has told me if I ever have the need to call and visit her after I terminate that I can. She said that after she retires and I need to talk to her I could call her. She said, we've worked long and hard and I think our relationship is eternal. I loved that thought!!! I've been with her for over 8 years now. A long time. I have no plans of terminating anytime soon. That day will come when I feel ready.
I know things would never be the same as they are now if I terminated and then went again. Maybe that's what your T. was referring too.LadyBug
Posted by pinkeye on April 24, 2005, at 13:47:48
In reply to Re: what did T mean?, posted by LadyBug on April 24, 2005, at 13:28:45
That's pretty cool of your T. I like that approach a lot. It is so much more gentle and humane and down to earth approach rather than this terminate and move on thing.
The latter seems pretty cruel to do to anyone. I wouldn't do it to my worst enemy and for therapists to do it to their own patients - is very hard to take. Logically speaking, that may be the right thing to do. But that is just dry logic. It has nothing to do with the emotional nature of persons.
Posted by Dinah on April 24, 2005, at 15:25:48
In reply to Re: what did T mean?, posted by LadyBug on April 24, 2005, at 13:28:45
I'm never going to be ready. Never.
I'm not really in therapy to deal with my demons though. I'm in therapy to give a voice to part of me that no one else wants to know. Unless you call that part of me a demon, or in my case "the beast". I could be very very bad before I had a place where I was welcome in all of me. And I suspect I could be very very bad if I was silenced again.
Well, very bad for me. I haven't a real talent for being bad. But I can try.
To lose my therapy would be like trying to smother part of me, and I wouldn't go easily.
Posted by Dinah on April 24, 2005, at 20:47:20
In reply to BUT WAIT! » Dinah, posted by Shortelise on April 24, 2005, at 12:50:13
On more than one level.
First of all, you acted as your own therapist. Congratulations! That sounds like good internalization.
Second, that sounds like a really healthy realization on your part. If you know what you're really grieving, you should be able to grieve more effectively.
Are you going to share this with your therapist? Or are you going to let him think it's him you'll be grieving entirely? :)
Posted by gardenergirl on April 24, 2005, at 21:53:05
In reply to BUT WAIT! » Dinah, posted by Shortelise on April 24, 2005, at 12:50:13
Wow, I'm awed. That's really profound, and what a place you have come to. I do think there is something to the idea of leaving behind or at least putting away a part of you that has been with you for a long time, even if it's dark. But as my T has said to me before, the rest of you gets bigger. I like that idea.
And I'm so glad you are enjoying your garden. Aren't lilacs just lovely? I have two mature ones I inherited. One white and one purple. Heaven.
gg
Posted by Shortelise on April 25, 2005, at 0:38:57
In reply to Re: what did T mean?, posted by LadyBug on April 24, 2005, at 13:28:45
That's sounds more like a god than a therapist, ladybug!! :-) You're lucky, or maybe your therapist was lucky to have you as a client.
ShortE
Posted by LadyBug on April 27, 2005, at 9:25:41
In reply to Re: what did T mean? » LadyBug, posted by Shortelise on April 25, 2005, at 0:38:57
Thanks for your comment. I know I have a good therapist! She has strict boundaries. No e-mail, no touching just to name a few. She said she knows that things come up in life and maybe I would need to see her again for a reason, even after I terminate. Let's see if she keeps her word. Because years ago, she said once ya quit, ya go on.....and don't come back. Maybe she knows me better by now and would feel we cold handle it.
She's awesome! (Most of the time) She's made a few major mistakes, but heck I've made tons of major mistakes. None of us are perfect.LadyBug
This is the end of the thread.
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