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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by alexandra_k on March 21, 2005, at 0:41:28
In reply to Re: We talked and talked and talked, posted by All Done on March 20, 2005, at 12:38:17
> I told him what the insurance company was telling me. His first instinct was to say that the insurance company can't tell him what to charge. I told him I thought maybe they could because of his contract. He also kept mentioning the fact that we (him and I) had/have an arrangement we already agreed upon. Well, I told him I agreed to that not even knowing he was a provider with my insurance company. He's been a provider since before I met him. Our agreement was made without him telling me he was a provider.
Well done :-)
> Oh. And I paid him $90 when I left.
Unbelievable. Really.
He f*cks you over and you pay him for the priveledgeI can't help thinking that money is important to them for the same reason it is important to everyone. And there really isn't any more to it than that. Don't we show committment by turning up? Don't we show committment by taking what they have to say seriously? Don't we show committment by thinking about them during the week? Don't we show committment by doing homework tasks or whatever?
Where else in life are you fairly much solely expected to show your committment by paying a fee? Are you supposed to give your kids pocket money to show them you are committed to them? How about your spouse? How about your friends?
Would they ditch you if you couldn't express your committment with $$$?
I know they gotta live eat have money for stuff just like the rest of us. But I have to say IMO the rationale for such exhorbatant fees is just so much sh*t.
It makes me so mad.
I'm sorry
Posted by alexandra_k on March 21, 2005, at 0:42:43
In reply to Re: We talked and talked and talked » All Done, posted by alexandra_k on March 21, 2005, at 0:41:28
I'm sorry. I shouldn't have posted anything. It isn't about your t so much as my poverty and thus lack thereof. I really am very sorry.
Posted by gardenergirl on March 21, 2005, at 0:50:55
In reply to Re: We talked and talked and talked, posted by alexandra_k on March 21, 2005, at 0:42:43
Posted by Dinah on March 21, 2005, at 10:26:02
In reply to Re: We talked and talked and talked, posted by All Done on March 20, 2005, at 12:38:17
Oh my. When I talked with my therapist about this topic (I thought he was on my plan but he wasn't) he seemed to feel quite injured that he'd be getting $40 less per session than he was currently getting for those sessions that were covered. He said "You do realize I'm not allowed to charge the difference between what the insurance company paid and what I now get from you." in the most injured tone of voice. I felt injured that he felt compelled to charge me $40 more than the majority of his clients. That still stings, yet conversely gives me some power that I enjoy.
But in the end he shrugged and said that's the way it was. He also made some statements about treatment plans and diagnosis codes that I took as being threatening, though he tells me I'm mistaken. I don't think I am. :(
I was reinforced with my desire not to go through an insurance company.
Posted by All Done on March 27, 2005, at 3:01:01
In reply to Re: We talked and talked and talked, posted by All Done on March 20, 2005, at 12:38:17
I'm very sorry, everyone. I wanted to respond to you individually earlier but there were a few things.
First, I started feeling like I wanted to defend my T and I didn't think that would end up being very productive.
Also, I wondered if I was upsetting myself about the situation somewhat unnecessarily. The ball is in his court and I can think about the result after he tells me what information he comes up with. I worry a lot and I guess this week wasn't a good week for me to spend too much time worrying where I didn't have to. My son was still sick and my aunt had a massive heart attack and was put on a ventilator. She was just taken off tonight and they don't think she'll live much longer. My cousin (her daughter) is a bit of a mess and so is my mom (her sister). Understandably so, but they are needing a lot of support from me. The whole situation is reminding me of when I lost my dad, though, and I don't know how much more I can do for them before I get way too sad. I'm already missing him a ton.
But I digress. I saw my T today and I don't think he's talked to the insurance company. We didn't talk any specifics about the issue. If he doesn't bring it up at the beginning of the next session, I will ask what he thinks his time frame is for looking into this.
It wasn't a great session. I didn't really realize until I left, but I feel like my connection to him has been sort of damaged. Hopefully, it's temporary and we can work things out. But until then, I'm left feeling uncomfortable and really, really anxious. It has to do with some other things too, not just the insurance issue, but that's definitely part of it. I don't like feeling so uncomfortable especially when I was just starting to feel more attached to him. It all has me so uptight and nervous I almost called him tonight and I never call. I feel like I'm losing him and that feeling always makes me panicky.
I'm sorry guys. I'm feeling pretty lousy, but I wanted to let you know I *do* appreciate your responses and I don't mean to be ignoring you.
You've been so sweet to me.
Thanks,
Laurie
Posted by fallsfall on March 27, 2005, at 10:04:21
In reply to Re: I'm a bit of a mess :(, posted by All Done on March 27, 2005, at 3:01:01
Yes. I understand. I understand the impatience. I understand wanting to defend your therapist while at the same time you are angry at what he is doing (or not doing). I understand the divide (for me, it really did get lots better - the fee/insurance issue helped us get closer).
Do bring it up when you are ready. Don't feel like it is a taboo subject.
Sounds like a rough time with your aunt. And you need to be support for your mother and cousin. I hope you have some IRL support yourself - but remember that we will be here to support you, too. Let us know what you need.
(((AllDone)))
Posted by gardenergirl on March 27, 2005, at 10:16:18
In reply to Re: I'm a bit of a mess :(, posted by All Done on March 27, 2005, at 3:01:01
Oh sweetie,
We're here for you. And of course you would feel conflicted about this. I bet you want to feel good about him, but the insurance thing is tricky.And I'm so sorry about your aunt. How awful. I'm glad you are there for your cousin, but do also take care of yourself. Let me know if you need any late night IM's, okay? I'll let you know if I can sleep in the next day or at least nap. No worries there.
We're here for you. You can share this with us.
(((((Laurie))))
gg
Posted by shrinking violet on March 27, 2005, at 11:34:05
In reply to Re: I'm a bit of a mess :( » All Done, posted by gardenergirl on March 27, 2005, at 10:16:18
Posted by Dinah on March 27, 2005, at 13:38:30
In reply to Re: I'm a bit of a mess :(, posted by All Done on March 27, 2005, at 3:01:01
I'm so sorry about your family. The situation itself and the feelings it's reawakening in you about your father. My thoughts are with you and yours.
There's no need to defend your therapist to me. I think his response, while justifiably annoying, is not at all unexpected for a therapist. They aren't generally business whizzes or they'd have gone to business school. And we like them that way. He's just trying to feel his way along a new territory for him.
Money is always a tricky subject in therapy. :(
Posted by All Done on March 28, 2005, at 0:05:04
In reply to Re: I'm a bit of a mess :( » All Done, posted by fallsfall on March 27, 2005, at 10:04:21
> Yes. I understand. I understand the impatience. I understand wanting to defend your therapist while at the same time you are angry at what he is doing (or not doing). I understand the divide (for me, it really did get lots better - the fee/insurance issue helped us get closer).
Thanks, falls. It really helps me to hear that things got better for you and your T and that it even helped you get closer. I just feel so out there on my own right now and it's kind of lonely :(.
> Do bring it up when you are ready. Don't feel like it is a taboo subject.
I will. We even talked about it yesterday. Just not much I think, in part, because he hadn't talked to them, yet. I'll bug him next week if he doesn't bring it up. I don't think it would be a very wise idea to have a white elephant in the room with us. It's kinda small in there ;).
> Sounds like a rough time with your aunt. And you need to be support for your mother and cousin. I hope you have some IRL support yourself - but remember that we will be here to support you, too. Let us know what you need.
>
> (((AllDone)))A lot of my IRL support comes from my husband. He knows about my aunt, of course, but he has a hard time understanding some of the therapy stuff. (Especially when I don't tell him about all of it. Sigh.) So, it's nice to know I have you guys, too.
Thank you so much, falls.
Laurie
Posted by All Done on March 28, 2005, at 0:11:20
In reply to Re: I'm a bit of a mess :( » All Done, posted by gardenergirl on March 27, 2005, at 10:16:18
> Oh sweetie,
> We're here for you. And of course you would feel conflicted about this. I bet you want to feel good about him, but the insurance thing is tricky.I do want to feel good about him. He said he thinks this is a new "phase" of my therapy (I think he used the word phase.) Maybe less idealization of him or something. At kind of the same time, he was talking about the beginning, middle, and end of therapy. I guess my head is just assuming a new "phase" means I'm closer to the end. I don't like thinking about that :(.
> And I'm so sorry about your aunt. How awful. I'm glad you are there for your cousin, but do also take care of yourself. Let me know if you need any late night IM's, okay? I'll let you know if I can sleep in the next day or at least nap. No worries there.
>
> We're here for you. You can share this with us.
>
> (((((Laurie))))
>
> ggThanks, gg. I feel like I have a lot of stuff I want to talk about, I just don't know how to get it out in an organized manner. So, if we do IM, consider yourself warned - much rambling will ensue ;).
Posted by All Done on March 28, 2005, at 0:13:01
In reply to {{{{{{{{{{{{All Done}}}}}}}}}}}} (nm), posted by shrinking violet on March 27, 2005, at 11:34:05
Posted by All Done on March 28, 2005, at 0:23:40
In reply to ((((All Done)))), posted by Dinah on March 27, 2005, at 13:38:30
> I'm so sorry about your family. The situation itself and the feelings it's reawakening in you about your father. My thoughts are with you and yours.
Thanks, Dinah.
> There's no need to defend your therapist to me. I think his response, while justifiably annoying, is not at all unexpected for a therapist. They aren't generally business whizzes or they'd have gone to business school. And we like them that way. He's just trying to feel his way along a new territory for him.
>
> Money is always a tricky subject in therapy. :(Justifiably annoying - I like that :). Somehow, it feels better to me to be annoyed than angry. (I think I tend to use the terms interchangeably, though.)
And what do you mean he's not a business whiz? I like to believe he knows everything about everything (um, just like I thought my dad did). Maybe that's why I'm so darn disappointed :(.
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2005, at 0:28:29
In reply to Re: ((((All Done)))) » Dinah, posted by All Done on March 28, 2005, at 0:23:40
Ok, clearly he's not perfect. Otherwise he would have showed his various and sundry failings very early in therapy. Perhaps my therapist could give a course in *that*. :)
"How to Ensure You Are Not Idealized (or Making Errors a Therapeutic Opportunity)"
Posted by All Done on March 28, 2005, at 1:02:01
In reply to lol » All Done, posted by Dinah on March 28, 2005, at 0:28:29
(((Dinah's T)))
;)
Posted by mair on March 28, 2005, at 5:07:16
In reply to Re: too funny, Dinah :), posted by All Done on March 28, 2005, at 1:02:01
I know I'm jumping in late here, and I haven't read all of the posts on this thread, but I dealt with exactly the same issue with my T after i first started seeing her. She was a provider for my insurance company although she worked in a different state from the one I lived in so she had to submit claims to her state and they then passed them along to my state. The allowed amount she was permitted under her contract was less than a T would have been allowed in my state. She submitted the claims and generally didn't bill me until after she got paid, but she'd bill me for the full difference between what she got from the insurer, and her normal hourly rate. More than that, the insurer in her state was so awful about processing claims that it took months for her to get reimbursed, and I started paying her on a monthly basis what she thought I would owe. She only had a couple of patients with my company and I think she maybe thought she could bill me differently since I lived in a different state.
I figured out that what she was doing was wrong but I hadn't been seeing her that long. I have a real aversion to dealing with money matters and in particular money disputes and I really didn't want to say anything to her. I found out that it just bothered me too much, however, - not so much the money as the fact that she was just not correct in the way she was billing me. I pretty much thought that raising it with her would fracture the relationship we were just starting to build and that I'd end up losing her, but I couldn't let it go.
After I raised it, I realized that she was amazingly naive and uninformed about the way these things were supposed to work and that her billing practices were a little sloppy. She certainly wasn't gypping me deliberately. I also discovered that she was really upset to discover that she had been doing things wrong, but also that she'd be getting paid so little if she could only bill me my copay. We worked out a compromise where we split the difference. I know I was still paying more that I was supposed to, but it wasn't that much different and could certainly live with it. And I was so grateful that she handled it in a way that made me feel ok for bringing it up.
Ultimately she dropped my insurer which meant I started having to submit my own claims. That hasn't been too bad because my state's allowed amount was higher than her's anyway.
What I learned was 1) you have to bring this stuff up if it bothers you; 2) the T should be able to deal with it in a constructive way; and 3) you can't assume that the T understands his or her provider contract, or for that matter, has a clue how the financial world really operates.
Mair
Posted by All Done on March 28, 2005, at 17:12:41
In reply to my experience » All Done, posted by mair on March 28, 2005, at 5:07:16
Thanks for sharing your experience, Mair. It's really too bad that this is such a common issue. I feel like there should be some sort of training seminar for the T's before they sign their contracts with the insurance companies.
I wish my T had expressed a little more concern that perhaps he was, in fact, doing something incorrectly. Instead, I felt sort of like he wasn't even going to accept any part of that theory and it kind of reminded me of my mom and the stuff that really irritates me about her.
Anyway, I agree, it was important for you to bring it up since it bothered you. Good job and I'm glad things worked out in the end. It gives me hope ;).
Thanks and take care.
Laurie
Posted by All Done on March 28, 2005, at 17:21:22
In reply to Re: I'm a bit of a mess :(, posted by All Done on March 27, 2005, at 3:01:01
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and well wishes. Unfortunately, my aunt passed away this morning. It's really triggering a lot of my feelings about my dad's death and I'm feeling a little twisted up inside right now. And for some reason, I feel myself getting more and more upset with my T over this stuff. It all feels so intertwined and I can't make heads or tails of it at the moment.
Sigh. Keep your fingers crossed that my T will be able to help make sense of all this with me.
:(
Posted by fallsfall on March 28, 2005, at 17:39:07
In reply to Re: I'm a mess :(, posted by All Done on March 28, 2005, at 17:21:22
(((Alldone)))
My condolences on your loss.
This issue with your therapist can wait a little bit. You need to give your attention to your mother and cousin, and yourself. Can you try to put this money issue on the shelf for a little bit?
Posted by All Done on March 28, 2005, at 19:11:05
In reply to Re: I'm a mess :( » All Done, posted by fallsfall on March 28, 2005, at 17:39:07
Thanks, falls.
It's not specifically the money issue that's bothering me. Otherwise, I would just table it until things settle down for my family. It's an overall sense (based only in part on the money thing) that I'm losing my connection with him. Logically, I know I'm not, but logic doesn't seem to be winning out.
I don't know that I'm making any sense. I'm not even sure what I'm feeling. Just an overwhelming sadness for lots of reasons that are getting all mixed up right now.
Posted by TofuEmmy on March 28, 2005, at 19:13:18
In reply to Re: I'm a mess :(, posted by All Done on March 28, 2005, at 17:21:22
So sad about the death of your aunt. And I totally understand how new losses kick up those other griefs. It's a bit like stirring up something we thought had settled a bit.
Yes, I hope your T helps you process all this. It will take some time to sink in tho pookie. Hang on, we're here for you.
Loving hugs, emmie
Posted by gardenergirl on March 28, 2005, at 19:18:40
In reply to Re: I'm a mess :(, posted by All Done on March 28, 2005, at 17:21:22
Oh dear,
What a trigger. I'm so sorry for your loss, especially at a time when you are feeling a bit diconnected with your T. I'm thinking of you. I hope that your T is able to jump in and help you feel connected again while giving you support through all this.Thinking of you,
gg
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2005, at 19:26:45
In reply to Re: I'm a mess :(, posted by All Done on March 28, 2005, at 17:21:22
I too felt disconnected from my therapist when I had recently experienced loss. In fact, I'm not sure I've recovered the attachment.
Although it feels bad, and not at all helpful, somewhere inside us there must be some alarm going off telling us to pull back and protect ourselves.
My therapist says to just hang on and it will come back.
Posted by All Done on March 29, 2005, at 0:57:49
In reply to ((((((((((AllDone)))))))), posted by gardenergirl on March 28, 2005, at 19:18:40
The two of you make me feel so cared for and you're both so kind. I truly appreciate all of your support and I love when you make me laugh, too ;).
Thanks for being there for me.
[[[[[(((emmy)))and(((gg)))]]]]]
Your grateful pal,
LaurieP.S. Does it make me a geek that I think that hug kinda looks like a math equation?
Posted by All Done on March 29, 2005, at 1:00:07
In reply to I'm so sorry., posted by Dinah on March 28, 2005, at 19:26:45
Thank you, Dinah.
It's interesting (for lack of a better word) to me that it seems like when I need my T the most is when I pull away. Maybe frustrating is a better word?
For both of our sakes, I hope your T is right.
Take care,
Laurie
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