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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by messadivoce on March 4, 2005, at 2:34:52
Guys, I'm having a bad week. I feel like a lame member of Babble...haven't been posting much to people who are feeling worse than me. I hope you know that I often read and sympathize, and I'm sure people do the same for my posts.
I really miss my old T this week. It's been 10 months since termination, and there are still times when the realization that he's gone just hits me so hard. I haven't heard his voice in so long, and I just really wish I could have that. I sent him a newsy e-mail at the beginning of the week, and he replied on Wednesday with just a paragraph...kind but distant. It hurt a little. And now thanks to unspoken rules I won't write him til May, at least. Which, I mean, is probably good. It's kind of stressful when I write to him and tell him how I'm doing, and then wait for his reply.
I miss the security of his tiny little office, which at times was claustrophobic, but other times was all the of the world that I could handle. It was just me and him in that tiny room and there wasn't room for much else, except all those horrible memories. I remember how intently he watched my face. His face was a lifeline to me when I was so lost in the pain that I wondered if I could ever shake myself out of. He didn't say or do anything really extraordinary. He just sat with me.
I remember how he hugged me after the last session. It's one thing to look at your T, it's quite another to *feel* them, to know they are truly, solidly real. He hugged me soooo tight. I wish I could have bottled that hug and saved it for when I really needed it. I could use it now.
I know when I miss him, I am missing things I never had. Security in a father figure, for one. Affection, love, affirmation, safety from my dad. I tell myself that if I could get old T back that it wouldn't fulfill the longing...but he was the perfect man! screams my heart. And he left you because you weren't good enough.
I know this is triggered by the loss of my second T. I try to remember our last session together, and I didn't know it was my last so I don't really remember. I wish I had hugged her, or something. But how could I have known.
Her office was huge, and so cluttered with knicknacks, papers, you name it. And it went from being full of stuff to just completely empty within a day. I hate how things can be fine one day, and a disaster the next. I hate how the world can just fall apart. I hate how you can lose what you need. I hate this learning to live without the people I have grown to love. I will never get good at losing.
Posted by Dinah on March 4, 2005, at 11:43:26
In reply to Sad week :-(, posted by messadivoce on March 4, 2005, at 2:34:52
I'm so sorry. I wish I could say something to make it better. But the truth is that it hurts. It hurts a lot.
Posted by pinkeye on March 4, 2005, at 13:12:15
In reply to Sad week :-(, posted by messadivoce on March 4, 2005, at 2:34:52
If it is any consolation, you are not alone in this struggle. I can perfectly understand how waiting for replies and pushing off the time to write would feel. Am there myself.
I don't know the answer.. I wish it was much easier than it is for all of us.
Lot of it I think is just part of the game. Therapists do create a kind of pseudo relationship with us, being there for us, listening to everything, comforting us, giving suggestions.. and we get misguided into thinking it is a real relationship. It is just not possible to not fall into taking this pseudo relationship for a real one. Our hearts and minds don't work that way. If a T is really good, you are going to develop a real relationship with him/her. It would be impossible not to - unless the T is extremely cold and not caring from the beginning.
I hope you can find someone else in your real life who will be atleast be there for you little bit, if not to the extent of your T.
> Guys, I'm having a bad week. I feel like a lame member of Babble...haven't been posting much to people who are feeling worse than me. I hope you know that I often read and sympathize, and I'm sure people do the same for my posts.
>
> I really miss my old T this week. It's been 10 months since termination, and there are still times when the realization that he's gone just hits me so hard. I haven't heard his voice in so long, and I just really wish I could have that. I sent him a newsy e-mail at the beginning of the week, and he replied on Wednesday with just a paragraph...kind but distant. It hurt a little. And now thanks to unspoken rules I won't write him til May, at least. Which, I mean, is probably good. It's kind of stressful when I write to him and tell him how I'm doing, and then wait for his reply.
>
> I miss the security of his tiny little office, which at times was claustrophobic, but other times was all the of the world that I could handle. It was just me and him in that tiny room and there wasn't room for much else, except all those horrible memories. I remember how intently he watched my face. His face was a lifeline to me when I was so lost in the pain that I wondered if I could ever shake myself out of. He didn't say or do anything really extraordinary. He just sat with me.
>
> I remember how he hugged me after the last session. It's one thing to look at your T, it's quite another to *feel* them, to know they are truly, solidly real. He hugged me soooo tight. I wish I could have bottled that hug and saved it for when I really needed it. I could use it now.
>
> I know when I miss him, I am missing things I never had. Security in a father figure, for one. Affection, love, affirmation, safety from my dad. I tell myself that if I could get old T back that it wouldn't fulfill the longing...but he was the perfect man! screams my heart. And he left you because you weren't good enough.
>
> I know this is triggered by the loss of my second T. I try to remember our last session together, and I didn't know it was my last so I don't really remember. I wish I had hugged her, or something. But how could I have known.
>
> Her office was huge, and so cluttered with knicknacks, papers, you name it. And it went from being full of stuff to just completely empty within a day. I hate how things can be fine one day, and a disaster the next. I hate how the world can just fall apart. I hate how you can lose what you need. I hate this learning to live without the people I have grown to love. I will never get good at losing.
Posted by Shortelise on March 4, 2005, at 13:41:18
In reply to Sad week :-(, posted by messadivoce on March 4, 2005, at 2:34:52
Voce, I am a plump - though attractive :-) - 49 year old happily married childless (by choice) woman, kind and warm as I know how to be, and I wish I could take you on my lap and hold you.
I had this image of my T a few years ago, the T I am still in therapy with, of being small, sitting on his lap, not encircled by his arms, but leaning against his chest, and it was the safest I have ever felt, ever. It's a precious fantasy.
I wish I could send more.
ShortE
Posted by messadivoce on March 4, 2005, at 18:30:56
In reply to Re: Sad week :-( » messadivoce, posted by Dinah on March 4, 2005, at 11:43:26
Dinah, I've always appreciated your honesty. Thanks for your validation...I know you get it.
Voce
Posted by messadivoce on March 4, 2005, at 18:35:19
In reply to Re: Sad week :-( » messadivoce, posted by pinkeye on March 4, 2005, at 13:12:15
Thanks pinkeye. I feel sometimes like the therapy relationship is a catch-22. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. But for those of us who get attached...well...it can hurt sometimes. I honestly think that our relationships with them are as real as they can be. I know when I was in therapy, our bond was real. Even T2 commented on how special our bond was. If my bond with him isn't broken, then what is it? Hmmm.
Posted by messadivoce on March 4, 2005, at 18:40:01
In reply to Re: Sad week :-( » messadivoce, posted by Shortelise on March 4, 2005, at 13:41:18
ShortE, that is so sweet. I do have a similar picture in my mind of my old T that I try to conjure up when I need it. I just know that when he hugged me, I could have clung to him forever. I realize now that I wish I could have been his daughter, and had the excuse to hug him, and be close all the time. I'm going to stop this now before I get myself too worked up.
Thanks for your hugs...I appreciate your desire to comfort. You are a very kind person.
Voce
Posted by pinkeye on March 4, 2005, at 18:40:40
In reply to Re: Sad week :-( » pinkeye, posted by messadivoce on March 4, 2005, at 18:35:19
If a relationship is real, why does it have to end? Real relationships never end. You never say to your real friends, relatives, people you care about to stop contacting you, stop writing to you. In that sense it is pseudo relationship isn't it? Within the framework of therapy it is real, but once you come out of it, it is vanished. It is almost like a dream.
Posted by messadivoce on March 4, 2005, at 18:51:31
In reply to Re: Sad week :-( » messadivoce, posted by pinkeye on March 4, 2005, at 18:40:40
But real relationships DO end. People die. They move away. Maybe my T wants me to lessen contact so he won't get in the way of developing relationship that are more multi-demensional. This makes sense in my head, but not my heart of course. But I know our relationship was real...it just couldn't be sustained. It's so different from any other relationship you'll ever have. No way to categorize it, really.
Posted by Dinah on March 4, 2005, at 18:53:12
In reply to Re: Sad week :-( » messadivoce, posted by pinkeye on March 4, 2005, at 18:40:40
In my experience all relationships end. In the time I've seen my therapist, one of my two best friends moved out of state (well, that might have been a bit before), the other one died, Daddy died, Harry died. I see my other friend maybe every couple of years. I didn't know she was thinking of adopting until six months after she had. I can't tell you how many Babble friends have drifted away. My therapist has no plans to terminate me unless he is incapacitated or dies. It may be an artificial relationship in many ways, but partings are ubiquitous.
Except for my son and my husband maybe. I've made him promise not to die before me, but I know he can't really determine that.
Posted by pinkeye on March 4, 2005, at 19:04:05
In reply to Re: Sad week :-( » pinkeye, posted by messadivoce on March 4, 2005, at 18:51:31
> But real relationships DO end. People die. They move away. Maybe my T wants me to lessen contact so he won't get in the way of developing relationship that are more multi-demensional. This makes sense in my head, but not my heart of course. But I know our relationship was real...it just couldn't be sustained. It's so different from any other relationship you'll ever have. No way to categorize it, really.
THis is something which my brain would never understand I think. Real relaitonships don't end like this.. unless things go sour or one person dies.Somehow I have difficulty even now coming to terms with this - it has never been easy for me to say goodbye to people, and I just am not able to say goodbye to my ex T. It really breaks me. To think he won't care anymore, that he would wish not to hear from me - is something more than I can digest. It almsot feels like how I would feel if my parents ask me to not contact them again. And I am not able to digest it.
Posted by pinkeye on March 4, 2005, at 19:06:11
In reply to Re: Sad week :-( » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on March 4, 2005, at 18:53:12
I have had to say lot of Goodbyes to people myself too. But only one or two goodbyes have had this effect on me. Rest I was able to come to peace. I am one of those who have been on the move a lot, and had to say lots of Goodbyes in life. But I didn't struggle so much for any of them. Except maybe one other time.
Posted by Susan47 on March 4, 2005, at 21:22:25
In reply to Sad week :-(, posted by messadivoce on March 4, 2005, at 2:34:52
When you used to be with your T, you looked at his face, didn't you. I'm wondering, when you did that, if every little expression meant the world to you at the time.
I remember my T's face so clearly at times but the times are getting frustratingly farther apart. I want a picture of him so badly, you can't believe how bad I want a picture of him looking at ME. You know?
Posted by Daisym on March 4, 2005, at 21:42:17
In reply to Sad week :-(, posted by messadivoce on March 4, 2005, at 2:34:52
No one should ever get good at losing people they love. It totally stinks that this has happened to you. Hang in there...you have us!
I hope next week is better. I know you have a big deal on Monday so if you need to post over the weekend, I'll be reading.
Hugs from me,
Daisy
Posted by messadivoce on March 5, 2005, at 2:22:28
In reply to Sad week :-(, posted by messadivoce on March 4, 2005, at 2:34:52
Guys I feel so strange right now. We had the opening night of our show tonight and I'm coming down off of that high...things went really well. We are doing a double bill of Dido and Aenas (Purcell) and Orfeo ed Euridce (Gluck). We run Fri-Sat-Sun, which is emotionally taxing. No nights off.
My relationship with my director is strange. I know I've been seeking his approval for the past 4 years, and unlike most singers, I have a fragile ego. I have always sought male approval...and with him especially since we work together so much. I never know what he thinks of me. I gave probably my best performance ever tonight and there wasn't much feedback...in this crazy business they say if there's no feedback then you're doing well, but I sometimes need to know I'm doing well. And I didn't get that tonight.
My ex T came to my junior recital last year, which was incredible special. Unlike my director, of course, he was not music savvy at all. But when I saw him the day after at my session, he couldn't stop saying how much he enjoyed it, how good I was onstage, etc. It was everything I needed. Just to stand onstage at my recital and see him grinning from ear to ear in the last seat of the back row was enough. I always put out such huge pieces of my heart onstage, and I know that my ex T was accepting of all of that.
I guess that's how it feels with my director, that I'm putting my heart out there and he doesn't care. Or that he thinks I'm dumb or something. I know I shouldn't let it bother me, but it does. Enough about him......
On a different note, I am at 3 weeks with no therapy and I'm starting to really feel it. I feel so fragmented, like I'll fly to pieces. My "current" T will be coming to the show tomorrow or Sunday, but I won't get to really talk to her. I miss her. I never realized what an anchoring effect being in therapy had on me. I'm just so frightened at this point...I'll be graduating in May, moving back home, trying to find a way to marry my honey ($$$ are an issue), trying to learn to live with my folks again, find a job, on and on.
I know what's doing this to me. It's this d@mn show. And people wonder why singers are in therapy their whole lives.
I miss my Ts. So much. I'm trying to hold myself but it's not working. I feel like I'm asking you all to physically hold me up.
Posted by messadivoce on March 5, 2005, at 2:56:12
In reply to Re: Sad week :-(, posted by Susan47 on March 4, 2005, at 21:22:25
Susan, you are so right. You know, in the beginning I didn't look at his face much. I looked at his shoe, or the crack under the door, or the rug...but later on I started making more eye contact. I loved his expressions. He used to fold his hands and lean back in his chair while intently watching me. He had this look when he was thinking, and a look when I was saying something sad. His eyes, oh god, I miss those kind brown eyes of his. And the sympathetic sounds he made in his throat. And his smile was so bright, so quick, so boyish. My last session I remember looking at his face so intently, trying to imprint it in my mind. But I'm losing it slowly anyhow.
Posted by rubenstein on March 5, 2005, at 8:30:42
In reply to Help...I'm trying to hold it together....., posted by messadivoce on March 5, 2005, at 2:22:28
I am a singer as well
all I can say is that I feel for you
and I love both of those operas
been in both
but so sad
that is bound to put youin a funk as well
please take care
rachel
Posted by pinkeye on March 6, 2005, at 13:52:04
In reply to Help...I'm trying to hold it together....., posted by messadivoce on March 5, 2005, at 2:22:28
I think anything that is exciting or stressful or sad is hard to handle well. I used to feel so excited when I had to give a presentation or sing for a group in my music classes. But with age, it has come down a lot. Now I am able to be indifferent mostly..
You shall be able to come to that stage with more performances and shows and anxiety will slowly wear down.
As for your director, I know it must hurt, to not receive any comments from someone you want to get approval from. But hang in there, and do your best, and you might just end up finding someone else, who would be more than happy to give you the pats on the back you need. Maybe the fact that he is not giving you comments is the one that makes you keep looking at it from him. Like, if we are denied something, then we keep trying to get it from a person. Once we get it, we just toss it away and find something else to long for.
I can understand the speical feeling that you would have got when your ex T attended the performance. I would be incredibly touched too if my ex T is somehow aware of my achievements and will be there for the show. I don't think I will ever have it ever though.
If you are going to change your life significantly, find some T wherever you settle down to help you through the initial stress. That would help immensely.
And singing is a hard profession.. the excitement, the public cheers, being in the limelight, is so incredibly hard. Wish you good luck and I will pray the you will have the grace to accept your successes, and the strength to not crumble at the losses.
> My ex T came to my junior recital last year, which was incredible special. Unlike my director, of course, he was not music savvy at all. But when I saw him the day after at my session, he couldn't stop saying how much he enjoyed it, how good I was onstage, etc. It was everything I needed. Just to stand onstage at my recital and see him grinning from ear to ear in the last seat of the back row was enough. I always put out such huge pieces of my heart onstage, and I know that my ex T was accepting of all of that.
>
> I guess that's how it feels with my director, that I'm putting my heart out there and he doesn't care. Or that he thinks I'm dumb or something. I know I shouldn't let it bother me, but it does. Enough about him......
>
> On a different note, I am at 3 weeks with no therapy and I'm starting to really feel it. I feel so fragmented, like I'll fly to pieces. My "current" T will be coming to the show tomorrow or Sunday, but I won't get to really talk to her. I miss her. I never realized what an anchoring effect being in therapy had on me. I'm just so frightened at this point...I'll be graduating in May, moving back home, trying to find a way to marry my honey ($$$ are an issue), trying to learn to live with my folks again, find a job, on and on.
>
> I know what's doing this to me. It's this d@mn show. And people wonder why singers are in therapy their whole lives.
>
> I miss my Ts. So much. I'm trying to hold myself but it's not working. I feel like I'm asking you all to physically hold me up.
This is the end of the thread.
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