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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on September 6, 2004, at 23:50:14
Another fruitless day online researching dissociative disorders. I'm extra sure now that I don't have DID. I know that labels are just shorthand. And I know that labels don't matter much.
But I remembered my joy and delight when I discovered OCD. My feeling of Ah-Hah!!! It was so wonderful to hear that I wasn't alone, that others experience what I experience. Rather remarkably similar experiences.
I understand myself now. That's the important thing. I'm comfortable with who I am. I don't surprise myself. I find that everything I experience is quite comprehensible within the framework that I use to understand myself.
But the fact that I can't find others who use the same framework to understand themselves is immensely frustrating to me.
I'm torn between believing that if it isn't well documented, it can't be true. Or believing that if it weren't true, I'd do a much better job (even subconsciously) of making something up so that it fits more with what's well documented.
Arrgh. Why do I so badly want a label?
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 0:02:29
In reply to Neither fish nor flesh, nor good red herring, posted by Dinah on September 6, 2004, at 23:50:14
And they were mostly geared towards professionals and thus expensive. And only one or two were any use to me at all. :( So I've got a big stack of books that I'm too embarassed to even give away. What on earth will my family think when they sort through my things?
Posted by Skittles on September 7, 2004, at 0:15:26
In reply to Not to even mention the tons of books, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 0:02:29
Not sure if you were joking or serious about getting rid of the books, but if you DO need a way to dispose of them, you could list them for sale in the Marketplace section of Amazon.com. I've used it to get rid of many old textbooks and for much more than the amount for which I could have sold them back.
Posted by tinydancer on September 7, 2004, at 6:48:44
In reply to Neither fish nor flesh, nor good red herring, posted by Dinah on September 6, 2004, at 23:50:14
Dinah, what did you read that made you so sure you don't have DID? Just wondering! :)
Posted by partlycloudy on September 7, 2004, at 7:37:37
In reply to Not to even mention the tons of books, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 0:02:29
I put my collection in the waiting room of the practice where my T has her office. They have an unofficial lending library, and I've seen one or two go out and come back again.
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 8:02:23
In reply to Re: Neither fish nor flesh, nor good red herring » Dinah, posted by tinydancer on September 7, 2004, at 6:48:44
No Ah-Hah experience.
I went with a genuinely inquiring mind, and had more of a "No, that's not it. Nope. Not that either." experience.
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 8:04:29
In reply to Not to even mention the tons of books, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 0:02:29
I'm always too embarassed about them to do anything remotely worthwhile with my un-needed psych books.
Posted by lucy stone on September 7, 2004, at 8:38:30
In reply to Neither fish nor flesh, nor good red herring, posted by Dinah on September 6, 2004, at 23:50:14
I think the most interesting part of your post is the last sentance. Why do you so badly want a label? Is this something you can explore in therapy? My T doesn't diagnose very much, ususally only when he has to to satisfy insurance companies. He says it puts people in boxes and is limiting. What exactly would label do for you?
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 8:41:44
In reply to Re: Neither fish nor flesh, nor good red herring, posted by lucy stone on September 7, 2004, at 8:38:30
I think a label makes me feel normal. As odd as that may sound. Stuck with a disordered label perhaps, but normal in that I'm not alone or unique.
Posted by fallsfall on September 7, 2004, at 12:33:11
In reply to Re: Not to even mention the tons of books, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 8:04:29
Donate them to your Public Library, or if they are quite technical to a local University Library. Librarians are trained not to give you strange looks... Or drive 25 miles and donate them to THAT public or university library. Or send them to me!
Posted by tryingtobewise on September 7, 2004, at 14:55:46
In reply to Re: Not to even mention the tons of books » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on September 7, 2004, at 12:33:11
I know for me, having a lable/diagnosis made me feel more "justified" or somehow "deserving" of the time spent in therapy & the med management I receive. I'm the type who always feels guilty or self indulgent re: taking up the MD's time. i.e. surely there is someone worse off then me who truely deserves & needs it.
Just a thought...
:)
Posted by Speaker on September 7, 2004, at 15:35:02
In reply to Re: Not to even mention the tons of books, posted by tryingtobewise on September 7, 2004, at 14:55:46
Dinah,
I don't like anyone know anything where I live. However, our library has a night drop box and I would put them in there. Just make sure you haven't left anything personal in the books that could identify you.
Take care,
Speaker
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 16:23:19
In reply to Re: Not to even mention the tons of books, posted by Speaker on September 7, 2004, at 15:35:02
I don't always recognize OCD things. I generally have no problem with recycling books, but these must make me feel sinful or some such nonsense.
Posted by daisym on September 7, 2004, at 17:19:45
In reply to Neither fish nor flesh, nor good red herring, posted by Dinah on September 6, 2004, at 23:50:14
Dinah,
I hear your frustration but still it must be nice to understand yourself and be comfortable with who you are.
I'm continually shocked at the pieces and parts of me we keep finding in therapy. I never expected this...me, the totally in-charge, organized and scheduled to the hilt mom. My therapist and I agree that it isn't DID..."just" age states that got shunted off as I protected myself from what was happening. These states aren't independent personalities and don't take over completely. But they are still a powerful force, full of emotions and expectations and needs.
I guess maybe I would research regression and see if anything pops out at you from that. I've done a lot of reading around self-psychology and the building blocks your core self needs to be strong. And Winnicott's theory of attachment makes so much sense, especially if you see a clear separation of emotion from intellect. So many of us learned to trust our intellect to guide our decisions because our emotions were either inaccessible or brought out a neediness that was dangerous. We learned to protect and overshadow these parts, keeping them from maturing as we "grew up."
Sometimes I wish very deeply that I hadn't ever sought to access these emotions. It is so much more painful than I ever expected...
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 17:40:55
In reply to Re: Neither fish nor flesh, nor good red herring, posted by daisym on September 7, 2004, at 17:19:45
Chuckle. I'm trying to imagine my therapist calling either part of me "just" anything. That seems like a good way to get in trouble.
I hadn't realized that your child parts weren't complete personalities. Maybe there is no "standard" for any of this. My emotional and rational sides would both consider themselves complete unto themselves, although my therapist might argue that each was missing something. And there's separation of duties, my emotional self having none, and my rational self having all.
I've done a fair amount of research on attachment theory, and it's helped a lot in my therapy I think.
Posted by daisym on September 7, 2004, at 18:50:20
In reply to Re: Neither fish nor flesh, nor good red herring » daisym, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 17:40:55
Maybe that isn't the best way to describe it...complete personalities. It all feels like me, just more emotional and sensitive, if you know what I mean. And acting out in a younger fashion. So the personalities are complete. I like what you said about different responsibilities to different states. My youngest self has none, the 12/13 yr old is completely responsible for everything that happened and protects everyone involved and the adult is responsible for everything else in the here and now. Sheesh...I need a score card!
But I'm aware of these states as the overall adult...I guess that is what makes it so hard. And I'm never completely someone else. Which is why it isn't DID.
It is so hard to explain! And by describing anything as "just" it seems insulting...it wasn't meant that way.
Posted by Racer on September 8, 2004, at 15:28:02
In reply to Not to even mention the tons of books, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2004, at 0:02:29
My self diagnosis is Irregular Polygon Syndrome, with Feral Features -- although the feral features may constitute a separate diagnostic code. It fits me, and explains every symptom I experience. Nothing in the DSM ever has...
Back to your situation, which kinda parallels mine. Yeah, I think it makes sense to feel as if finding a name for what's going on with you is reassuring, because without a name it just feels as if we're just out of our minds and out of control. Having a name gives us a handle that we can come to grips with. And knowing that it's not unique to us also helps make it more bearable.
You know I'm resistant to diagnostic labels, right now, right? Well, my current dilemma involves whether or not to bring up my eating with Dr NoName and *ask* for a label! How's that for ironly? There're a couple of reasons for it -- one practical, one psychological. The practical reason is that Dr EyeCandy told me that, unless an MD had made an official diagnosis of an eating disorder, it wasn't relevant. Thus, when the Therapist From The Black Lagoon heard me say that I was frightened by how much I felt I was at war with food, it wasn't relevant, and she could dismiss it. If it had been in my chart, that might not have happened, and I might not have gotten so much worse. So, having him make it Official might protect me next time -- if, god forbid, there is a next time. The psychological side of it is that I can't bring it up with my therapist directly. I'm kinda hoping that having it made Official would allow me to receive treatment, without having to ask for it. (Trust me on this one, the worst part of this is the conflict between knowing how sick I've gotten in this one area and still not wanting to change. Sure, I'm 40+ pounds underweight now -- but I'm still too heavy, and *need* to lose more.)
As for the whole diagnostic criteria thing, Dinah -- fact is, they're using statistical models. Of the [x] thousand people we've diagnosed with [y] disorder, here are the features we've found to be most common. That means that, where I might fit the classic criteria for -- say -- depression, you might fit only half of it, with another half that looks more like, maybe, Green Jello Syndrome. You know? That's because this isn't as clearcut as the microbial diseases in medicine. You can't do a psychic ectoplasm panel and find out which disorders are really there, and which just appear to be the best label to apply to an individual. This is where psychiatry is more art than science.
Racer's Official Diagnosis of Dinah: Dinah Syndrome, with Self Doubt Features. (Deferral on an additional diagnosis of Irregular Polygon Syndrome -- which basically means you don't quite fit into any preformed boxes.)
Hope that helps, and that you find peace with this soon.
Posted by Dinah on September 8, 2004, at 16:08:02
In reply to I diagnosed myself... » Dinah, posted by Racer on September 8, 2004, at 15:28:02
You have a real gift, Racer. It's not easy to make me laugh right now. Dinah syndrome. Yes, I like it.
My therapist gets irritated with me and my search for a label. He says labels never really fit anyone anyway. And truth be told, if I did get a label, I'd probably be annoyed with its description and proposed treatment. Being contrary must be a prime indicator of Dinah syndrome.
I understand not wanting to bring it up with your therapist, although intellectually I know it's better to bring it up. But I find one of the more humiliating things in life is to be thought to be pretending to be something I'm not. That's why I hesitate to wear anything trendy because someone might say "Oh, she thinks she's stylish and she's really not." or I hesitate to be sociable because someone might say "Oh, she thinks she's socially acceptable and she is sooo not." or I am afraid to mention psych diagnoses because I'm afraid of the same thing. Given that in general I'm relatively shameless, it must be a quirky personal fear.
Posted by Racer on September 8, 2004, at 16:41:00
In reply to Re: ROFL, posted by Dinah on September 8, 2004, at 16:08:02
I must also have Dinah Syndrome.
That's the thing with my eating: I've tentatively brought it up a few times with doctors and therapists over the years. The first time, I was in my teens (and weighed a few pounds more than I do now), and said to my doctor something like, "My mother thinks I'm too thin, and worries that I might have an eating disorder..." She looked me up and down, and said, "No, you're fine -- and if you did have an eating disorder, you wouldn't ask that question." See, "lack of insight" is a definining characteristic of any eating disorder -- even if you're not a teenager, and have been down this road before. That's part of the reason it's so hard for me to bring it up with either therapist or pdoc.
The rest of the responses have fallen into two catagories: "it's not on your chart, so it's not relevant"; and "you don't look all that thin to me." The first one is what's just happened with that awful therapist -- when I did tell her that I was getting scared, because I was starting to feel the need to stay hungry, she asked if I ate -- "Of course I eat!" -- and then if I purged -- "no." So, since I didn't purge, and it wasn't on my chart as a possible problem, she didn't bother to ask *what* I eat. As for the second response, well, it's true: I don't look too thin -- unless you actually look at me. I don't look skeletal, because I'm not built to look skeletal. You -- Dinah, a woman who can probably 'see' women -- would say I was thin, maybe even too thin. People who know me say I'm much too thin. Dr EyeCandy -- a man, who sees women based in large part on whatever flavor he finds sexually appealing -- didn't see a problem with my weight, and never bothered to ask what I weighed after the first visit -- which was 40 pounds ago. Again, since it wasn't in my chart, it wasn't relevant.
Regardless of all that, of course, I'm still afraid to bring it up. I think it would look crazy to ask for a diagnosis, for one thing, and I'm also afraid that, if the doctor said 'no' based on any of the above, it would lock me into this even more completely. On the other hand, I don't look sick-thin, so it's not likely to be addressed unless I say something about it. Very hard situation to be in.
As for you, if you need something beyond Dinah Syndrome -- and please note that it's a Syndrome, not a Disorder -- here's what I try to hold on to: Whatever label is put on it, I'll still have the same symptoms tomorrow that I had yesterday, with the treatment overwhelmingly the same. The biggest difference is that, with a more accurate diagnosis, the treatment may become more effective, too. Since psychotherapy doesn't have to rely on Diagnostic Codes as much as medication might, it's unlikely to make any really significant difference.
Listen, for all that I'm talking about myself here, I do empathize with you. This is a really big issue for me right now, so I share some of your pain on this.
I also share the reluctance to 'admit' to any diagnosis outside the pdoc's office. It's even hard for me to admit to having arthritis, for that matter, or allergies. (Although I'm almost proud to be allergic to cats -- but then again, I have two fuzzy allergens running around the place, so that's probably why. Sort of a badge of honor, in a very perverse way. Remember: I'm nuts.) Maybe it's that whole thing with never admitting vulnerability? Never show any sign of imperfection? Dunno.
Bottom line, if it helps any, is that I like you. Might not mean much, but multiply it by the number of other people here who will say the same thing to you if you ask. It's OK with me if you wear stylish clothes -- as long as you like them.
Best to you, Dinah.
Posted by Dinah on September 8, 2004, at 17:17:36
In reply to If it is... » Dinah, posted by Racer on September 8, 2004, at 16:41:00
You promise you won't think I'm trying to pretend to be stylish? ;)
Thanks, Racer. I really appreciate it.
I can't believe that it's a requirement of *any* disorder except maybe delusional disorders that the patient has absolutely no awareness that there might be a problem. I wonder if your therapist properly understood the diagnostic guidelines. It would seem that most people suffering from any disorder realize at the very least that society, or their family, or someone thinks they have a problem. And it must occur to them from time to time that maybe it's true.
I think you just got a bad therapist there.
This is the end of the thread.
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