![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 51. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tinydancer on April 8, 2004, at 12:04:15
I feel like I'm jumping out of the airplane without a parachute here, but I see a lot of discussion about hearing voices and dissassociating and yet few people coming forward and discussing the MPD or Dissassociative disorder.
Is this looked upon as a shameful disorder to have? Disbelieved and basically very controversial?
I know a lot of individuals here have a lot of fear about divulging their dx's which I'm comfortable with and understand, but I feel like I'm ashamed of myself and the dx I have, and I don't want to be! I am constantly questioning myself and wondering how this could happen. Wondering how my mind could do this and how I could actually have this dx MPD-which to me is actually outrageous. It seems so unreal that it could even be a dx in the first place, since I spent so many years thinking that everyone heard voices and had people living inside them.
A lot of people are doubtful about the logistics of the dx, not to mention the ungodly innaccuracies depicted in the media about a person who has MPD. I feel like I'm opening a can of worms here, but would anyone else like to share their views about MPD? I would really be interested in hearing opinions and thoughts about the dx itself, as well as current treatment methods, and even questions that maybe need clearing up...So fire away...
Posted by mair on April 8, 2004, at 12:54:32
In reply to Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx?, posted by tinydancer on April 8, 2004, at 12:04:15
I wish I knew more about this. I thought the dx "multiple personality disorder" had been scrapped and that what you're describing is now called DID (disassociative identity disorder maybe ??) You're right; it doesn't get discussed alot here. There used to be a very active poster ShelliR who had that dx and did discuss it sometimes over on the meds board. I think she sometimes felt that talking about it alot seemed to stir up the people inside her, so I always got the impression that when in therapy, she worked more on depression issues. Regrettably, I haven't seen her around for quite awhile.
Mair
Posted by tinydancer on April 8, 2004, at 13:02:40
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » tinydancer, posted by mair on April 8, 2004, at 12:54:32
I wrote Multiple Personality because so few people are familiar with the DID dx. You are correct mair.
It is very hard talking about it. I start to shake and feel strange but I know its very important and my T and I do work with the alters, trying to balance it between them and my own everyday struggles. It isn't anything fun to talk about but I want to try to anyway.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 8, 2004, at 14:24:58
In reply to Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx?, posted by tinydancer on April 8, 2004, at 12:04:15
tiny,
I am very curious about the disorder and have lots of questions. Do you mind if I ask you some?
I have no experience with it at all but I've always wondered about what it might be like to live with MPD.
Posted by tinydancer on April 8, 2004, at 14:58:08
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » tinydancer, posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 8, 2004, at 14:24:58
> tiny,
>
> I am very curious about the disorder and have lots of questions. Do you mind if I ask you some?
>
It's very nice of you to ask first. I don't mind at all. What are you wondering about?
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 8, 2004, at 15:20:07
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » Miss Honeychurch, posted by tinydancer on April 8, 2004, at 14:58:08
I have so many. I suppose because I'm so ignorant about it. I'll try one question here.
Is it accurate to say that you have a "core" personality, or a consistent personality which is just "supplemented" by other personalities? Or are all of the personalities equal? Does this make sense? For example, is tinydancer tinydancer 100% of the day and she is sort of accompanied by other personalities, or at times does tinydancer disappear and someone else takeover? and if another personality does take over, is tinydancer aware of this? Is she pissed off? scared? happy? relieved?
I'm sorry if this sounds ridiculous. I only know what I see on tv or movies. I have no idea how accurate that is.
Depending on your response to this main question, I have others.
Posted by tinydancer on April 8, 2004, at 15:49:24
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx?, posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 8, 2004, at 15:20:07
This is a very interesting question. It really gets to the heart of what having other people coexisting inside you is all about! I want you to know that I speak only for myself, and would never dare to speak for anyone else who has the same condition. Also, I don’t think you are ridiculous nor are your questions!
I’m not TinyDancer 100% of the day, no. That’s never happened, in my entire life! I don’t sense that I have a core personality, no. I really do feel a sort of duality in every aspect of my personality. I’m not sure who I really am. It sounds more sinister than it actually is. But there is definitely TinyDancer, somewhere in there, but its more like pieces that make up a puzzle.
I found out I have, to a degree, co-consciousness, which is when I am aware of another personality coming out. Not always, but it happens sometimes. People around me will notice my mannerisms change and I might be “dully” aware of it in a sort of faraway sense. I have a lot of time loss-I end up places all the time and cannot remember how I got there. I can be in the middle of a task and suddenly I don’t know how to do it. I can’t drive because I could be sitting in a car and suddenly not know how to. There is a lot of forgetting how I got from Point A to Point B. I can sit for hours reading, writing, or exercising without having any sense of time passing whatsoever. That’s the more benign side of the dx.
To put it in a more concrete sense, for me, my people (as I prefer to call them) reside in a sort of neighborhood. At present I’ve got 12 alters, a couple of whom are very intensely embedded in my own self, so that I often don’t realize until someone else points it out that they’ve been running the show. In the “neighborhood” there is one young guy who guards everyone. He comes out whenever I’m threatened and protects me. But at the same time there is intense dischord within all of my people. They all want me doing different things and often are displeased with the choices I make. They are all sort of pulling me in different directions. Each of my “people” has a definite personality, appearance, tone of voice that I am aware of instantly in my head. Contact is more one sided-I can’t always contact them if I want to. They usually have running commentary all the time, about everything I do. I see them as my friends, that I’m never alone. (Although some people find that horrifying! It isn’t for me.) I can be pressured by them to do things that I don’t want to (self injury) but usually I can differentiate what is going on.
It is also good to point out that the voices I hear reside INSIDE my head. I do have psychotic episodes with hallucinations (audible and visible) and this belongs to a certain place in “the neighborhood” It seems to be another protection thing. It is very difficult with the hallucinations. I don’t feel like any medication helps and I can become very afraid of moving a muscle because I can’t handle what I might see.
During a day I’ll probably exhibit a lot of contradictory behaviors, which are brought on usually by different triggers. One personality can take over for days at a time, usually not longer than that, in my experience.
About the disassociation side of it, that’s probably the worst for me. When I sense that I’m losing control of my body and my emotions and feel locked inside myself and confused. It’s terrible. Luckily my T specializes in DID so he is incredibly understanding and patient walking me through all this. If you can believe it I’ve been in psychiatric treatment since 14 and have always told them that I heard voices, but my current T is the first one who said, “Well, can I talk to them?” What a shock that day was. I never knew there was anything strange about hearing voices. It’s amazing and strange. I feel like I’m rambling here but does any of this answer some of your questions?
Posted by rs on April 8, 2004, at 16:19:59
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » Miss Honeychurch, posted by tinydancer on April 8, 2004, at 15:49:24
Hi tinydancer. Thanks for sharing that wonderful post. Do not post here often guess just feel like cutting in sometimes. But felt the need to reply to you. Also DID. Like you took many years of finding out what is going on. The voices etc. Found a wonderful T but he moved a few years ago. Stopped therapy due to the pain of loosing him and the trust. Got into a gambling problem in which turned us to therapy which could not stand this person. Did not go till couple of months after that. Anyway it was a tough start. He finally agreed about the DID. No kidding. He said that had many clients come in there that said they were and were not. He has worked with one male in the past. This person is there speaks with all of them and most important believes. Sees us twice a week and has done everything possible to earn trust. In this area there are not many that work with DID. Its very difficult to find a good therapist. So you are not alone. Do I feel different yes in many ways. How many times feel like not normal etc. Sometimes want to share with someone about what is going on but cannot. People will always say something that did or said but they laugh it off as being me. Its painful work. This T does not believe in intergration which old T did. So yes there is some confusion but this one is much much better. Never thought could trust another T. But sessions are so so difficult. Sometimes do not think will survive this but will. Have an inner therapist as she is called. Not sure how many other parts. This week and the coming weekend is very difficult here. Many emotions. Also still test this T in many ways which did today. Cannot react sometimes in a logical way. As you know many feelings and opinions on things. Well hope this is not to long and again thanks for sharing. Nice to talk with someone who is DID. Have a good day.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 8, 2004, at 16:24:10
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » Miss Honeychurch, posted by tinydancer on April 8, 2004, at 15:49:24
That is really incredible, tiny.
Are all of your neighborhood people aware of eachother? And are there conflicts bwtween these people? Do you as tinydancer ever have to referee this fighting?
Do any of your other alters log onto psychobabble? Could you write a message as tinydancer, but it would really be coming from one of your alters?
If given the opportunity to have your neighborhood disappear and only be left with tiny, would you want that to happen? Would this be liberating and wonderful, or would you soon become lonely and perhaps scared now that tiny was who you were with 24/7?
Are there any alters you are terrified of?
Also, is there a concrete cause for MPD? Is it a genetic, chemical, physiological thing? Is it a coping mechanism?
Are your dreams different if you go to bed as one of your alters from how you usually dream?
Posted by tinydancer on April 9, 2004, at 1:03:09
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » tinydancer, posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 8, 2004, at 16:24:10
It is incredible, in a lot of ways. I think the strangest part of it is finding out that what I thought was perfect normal is in fact, abnormal!
No, my neighborhood people are not all aware of each other. That is what "co-consciousness" is about. The conflicts tend to be between myself and my people, not between them. If there is conflicts going on (for example an alter is screaming at me, or everyone is chattering and I cannot think straight) I might ask “Please stop, I want to rest!” It isn’t good to challenge them or try to yell back, it usually just provokes the attack.I imagine that my alters have logged on to pyschobabble, but I don’t think that they have written anything. I have written (and drawn) things that were completely another alter and not myself at all so it is possible.
The idea of having my neighborhood disappear is horrifying to me. I would never want this to happen. The goal in therapy now is not to make any alters go away, but to increase co-consciousness and working as a team to decrease the amount of conflict that can be so destructive and difficult to cope with.
I wouldn’t say there are any alters I am terrified of-that’s a strong word-but there is one that I’m scared and disturbed by called “The Gutter”, which is actually a gutter where “monsters” live. They are responsible for saying things that terrify me or frighten me. (An example would be one day when they said over and over again, “You are going to burn in hell” for hours and hours.) I have some alters that can make me feel bad, because they might say things about how much they hate me and hate being in my body. It hurts, because, obviously, they are a part of me.
Is there a concrete cause for MPD? Well, I’m not sure. My T has explained it such : If you imagine a lifeline with a normal healthy individual, that individual progresses normally step by step throughout. Someone who experiences terrible, horrific trauma may be so confounded by the trauma that they believe it happened to someone else. A new personality can be created-imagine this straight lifeline suddenly branching out all over the place. The personalities can be created at different periods within the individuals’ life, which is why alters can be children-the personalities created don’t age, they relive every day in a sense from the point they were created. As far as I know it is not chemical like depression, but it is a source of mystery still due to the fact that there is not a concrete cause for MPD-many children have suffered horrible abuse without becoming multiples, so it isn’t clear what causes it. It definitley seems to be a physiological thing. There isn’t any medication I can take to make the voices go away. I currently take Zoloft 150 mg, which helps with depression and anxiety. I take Seroquel or Zyprexa with psychotic episodes.
Neat question about the dream aspect. I don’t know! I know that sometimes a dream can affect me when I awaken and an alter might take over because I was triggered in some way and needed to protect myself.
Posted by tinydancer on April 9, 2004, at 1:07:41
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » tinydancer, posted by rs on April 8, 2004, at 16:19:59
Sessions are very difficult. That's why I consider the fact I'm in love with my T a bonus, because it helps get my booty out of bed and out the door to see him!
Seriously though, I know how painful sessions are. I find it difficult to find a place to collect the courage to go so deep within myself week after week, to have faith that putting myself through this is going to have any results. But I believe in my T. And that is very important in treating DID.I'm really glad you wrote and appreciated my post. I'm proud of myself to talk about it, even though it was really difficult.
It sounds like you've found a T to help you, I'm so glad. They really are like a life preserver out in the ocean!
Posted by shadows721 on April 9, 2004, at 2:34:56
In reply to Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx?, posted by tinydancer on April 8, 2004, at 12:04:15
I am also DID. It is like a shameful dx. I never have felt that what I have was so wonderful. It has been an hinderance. What is very easy for others is very difficult for me. I feel more like a freak show in hidding. I don't allow people to get to near me. I am just now really opening up to exposing some of myself(s) to only 3 people.
I find that when someone hears that someone is DID they want to see proof. That is abusive in my view. They are wanting to see rapid switching. I don't share my dx with many, because I know they will look for it. For now, they can just view me as extremely unpredictable and moody. I think DID people share some similiarities, but each person is different and so is their level of functioning.
For the most part, I just tell people I have complex PTSD. That is a true statement that people readily accept.
shadows
Posted by tinydancer on April 9, 2004, at 4:25:23
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx?, posted by shadows721 on April 9, 2004, at 2:34:56
shadows said:
> I am also DID. It is like a shameful dx. I never have felt that what I have was so wonderful.
I kind of battle with this one too. A lot of people are very fascinated by it and often I feel that my own problems are dwarfed by being a multiple. I think the shame is entertwined (for me) with the belief factor-like you said, people want proof. (Excluding my family-they already had the proof after living with me for 18 years!)
It sounds very painful to have to feel you have to hide yourself. I know being a multiple opens one up to a lot of vulnerability. I feel so afraid sometimes, or forget where I am or what I'm doing, and I'm too afraid to do anything about it. Often things can be so confusing to me, I can't process it at all in my head if certain alters are present. It's very brave of you to choose to open up to those three people you mentioned. I know how extraordinary it can seem to other people-being a multiple-and it is hard to put it into words. I often find that my alters intervene, they may not want me to divulge certain information and that complicates it more.
> I find that when someone hears that someone is DID they want to see proof. That is abusive in my view. They are wanting to see rapid switching. I don't share my dx with many, because I know they will look for it.I agree. I would never share my dx with anyone but my family. I have a best friend who knows but it is incidental because of the fact we both were in group therapy together. She has expressed a lot of doubt mixed with confusion. A lot of people think its schizophrenia, or don't understand how it is to hear voices. There is so much misunderstood about this condition which makes it very hard to open up about it at all. I think its terrible to be put into the third degree about a diagnosis and then to have to prove it. I don't really care who believes it or who doesn't. All I know is what I experience daily, and my T tells me that is MPD. I don't really focus so much on the dx itself because it isn't that important to me.
>I think DID people share some similiarities, but each person is different and so is their level of functioning.I agree. And I can vary in my own level of functioning. I'm in a pretty low period right now. But I think that it is a comfort to me to hear from other people who have MPD that they understand what I'm describing or have experienced similar things. It means a lot to know I'm not alone.
Thank you for contributing, it means a to me that you stepped forward with your thoughts.
Posted by gardenergirl on April 9, 2004, at 8:23:31
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » shadows721, posted by tinydancer on April 9, 2004, at 4:25:23
I just wanted to say I am learning a lot from reading this thread, and I thank all of your for opening up about it. It's very brave, IMO.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 9, 2004, at 8:31:27
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » Miss Honeychurch, posted by tinydancer on April 9, 2004, at 1:03:09
tiny, sorry for the bombardment of questions. I have one more and then I'll stop!
You mentioned that you are never 100% tinydancer, that you can't really pinpoint a core personality, that perhaps td is in the mix, but pretty much as puzzle pieces. So for example, are you say usually 75% td and 25% an alter personality?
I am also curious how this affects your marriage. I remember you saying that your husband knew all about your dx. I'm curious to know how he deals with your alters when they show up in full force?
Posted by tinydancer on April 9, 2004, at 9:27:00
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx?, posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 9, 2004, at 8:31:27
I don't mind answering the questions. I think its good to get it out in the open and talk about what it really is and isn't. You can ask me whatever you would like!
Miss H asked:
>So for example, are you say usually 75% td and 25% an alter personality?
It can go both ways. Sometimes I can be 100% an alter personality for periods of time. But on a general day to day basis, I would say that your percentages are fairly on target, obviously give or take a bit.
> I am also curious how this affects your marriage. I remember you saying that your husband knew all about your dx. I'm curious to know how he deals with your alters when they show up in full force?
We don't have an easy marriage by any means. It's very hard and he isn't a saint who magically understands what I'm going through. It's very painful for him, especially if I must be hospitalized. Mostly he gives me the space and room I need, which is a lot. He tries to be as patient as he can but it can run out fast, needless to say. There is a lot he doesn't understand, and the enormity of the abuse I've been through is hard for him to grasp. He isn't a very communicative type. He doesn't know a lot about who's who when it comes to my alters (I guess its too much to digest) so he usually just deals with me in a cautious way. He is usual pretty cued in to what is happening with me and my moods and acts accordingly. But there haven't been any dramatic switching or anything-it usually tends to be a lot less low key than what people might have seen on television. But he's pretty aware of it after the years we've been together.
Posted by tinydancer on April 9, 2004, at 9:28:19
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx?, posted by gardenergirl on April 9, 2004, at 8:23:31
> I just wanted to say I am learning a lot from reading this thread, and I thank all of your for opening up about it. It's very brave, IMO.
>
> Take care,
> ggThanks gg. I think so too! I am really glad to have an open forum about this disorder because there is so much misinformation out there. It is hard to talk about but everyone here has been very encouraging and understanding.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 9, 2004, at 9:38:22
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » Miss Honeychurch, posted by tinydancer on April 9, 2004, at 9:27:00
Does your child understand what is going on with you?
Has your T met all of your alters? Is there a possibility that as time goes on that new alters are created and old ones can go away? Or is everything pretty much fixed?
Posted by tinydancer on April 9, 2004, at 10:53:14
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » tinydancer, posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 9, 2004, at 9:38:22
> Does your child understand what is going on with you?
Never underestimate a child's intelligence, I say. However, he is only 7 and as such he isn't really aware of a lot, if at all. We are very close and talk openly about feelings and I try to create an open environment for him so that he doesn't feel afraid to ask about anything. He is the most important thing of all to me, so I do whatever I can to put him first. Generally speaking I think he may notice differences in me from other mothers but I don't think its that pronounced yet.
> Has your T met all of your alters? Is there a possibility that as time goes on that new alters are created and old ones can go away? Or is everything pretty much fixed?My T has met the majority of them, yes. As time goes on I imagine new alters can appear and old ones could go away, but I haven't really experienced any of them disappearing, just new ones appearing, although that too is extremely rare, its not like new ones are popping up every day or even every year.
Posted by Dinah on April 9, 2004, at 20:34:26
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx?, posted by shadows721 on April 9, 2004, at 2:34:56
I too find that the stigma is incredible. And I find myself ashamed of what is probably DD-NOS, not DID, though I've never been formally diagnosed. I've been informally diagnosed, I suppose, by my therapist. No amnesia, complete co-consciousness.
I don't tell *anyone*, and am relatively ashamed to admit it here. My therapist knows, my pdoc doesn't, the EMDR therapist had to (but really didn't get it *at all* which was ok, she didn't need to), my husband and family don't know. If they did, they'd likely think I was nuts, and I'm not. People just don't understand. They really don't. I'm afraid my husband would be afraid of leaving me alone with my son. While the truth is that it's no big deal. Both my ego states have posted here, and I doubt anyone could tell the difference. Both my ego states have spoken and interacted with my family and acquaintances and no one but my therapist can tell the difference. There are no different names or different lives. It's really just not a big deal. Not for me anyway. I'm sure that if I lost time or found myself doing frightening things, it would be a way bigger deal. But I don't.
I briefly tried to be an ego state activist, but unfortunately I haven't the fortitude to be an activist. I run into a little ignorance and prejudice and I fold.
I prefer "ego state" to "alter" because the word "alter" seems to imply that there is a core and then there are alters, and that really isn't the case with me. Or if it is, I have no idea which is which.
And I suspect you're right about people wanting demand performances. And you're right that that is abusive. I am sooooo glad my therapist reacts as matter of factly as I do. He never asks to speak to some other part of me, or does anything that makes me feel like I'm anything but a perfectly normal human being.
Posted by tinydancer on April 10, 2004, at 1:13:10
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » shadows721, posted by Dinah on April 9, 2004, at 20:34:26
Wow, Dinah! You haven't told your husband. Isn't that difficult to bear alone? I definitley feel more shameful about this dx than I did when I got the BPD dx years ago. But I also have been in the "system" so many years that there is less and less of a need to conceal it from those around me, it only makes my pain and suffering larger for me to bear.
> I prefer "ego state" to "alter" because the word "alter" seems to imply that there is a core and then there are alters, and that really isn't the case with me. Or if it is, I have no idea which is which.
I noticed you used the phrase ego state before. What does that mean actually? So you don't have any alter personalities and never did, or they have all integrated after you achieved co-consciousness?
> And I suspect you're right about people wanting demand performances. And you're right that that is abusive. I am sooooo glad my therapist reacts as matter of factly as I do. He never asks to speak to some other part of me, or does anything that makes me feel like I'm anything but a perfectly normal human being.What do you mean that he never asks to speak to some "other" part of you? How would he do that? I feel like my T treats me with respect and absolutely like a normal human being but he naturally wants contact with my alters too.
I hope you don't mind me asking you some questions, I was just a little confused by some of the things you said and really want to understand what you meant!
Posted by Dinah on April 10, 2004, at 9:38:43
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » Dinah, posted by tinydancer on April 10, 2004, at 1:13:10
I'm sorry. I was thinking after I posted that my post was more a rant about my own frustrations than it was about support, and I apologize for that. But it's a major source of distress for me and I've battled it for some time in therapy.
> Wow, Dinah! You haven't told your husband. Isn't that difficult to bear alone? I definitley feel more shameful about this dx than I did when I got the BPD dx years ago. But I also have been in the "system" so many years that there is less and less of a need to conceal it from those around me, it only makes my pain and suffering larger for me to bear.
I only openly admit to OCD and depression at work, etc. They know about my "hypomanic reactions" to certain medications, because they had to. It was too obvious. But introducing the idea of DD-NOS would have everyone thinking Sybil and I just don't want that. For one thing, that doesn't adequately describe my condition. My therapist has had several DID clients and worked with them in an inpatient setting as well, when there used to be wards for the condition. And he says he never knows what box to put me in because I'm definitely not DID. But I'm more than the normal splitting of work self from home self from playing with my son. So that puts me in the wastebasket DD-NOS. The only book I've fond that describes (even close) my own experience is "The Myth of Sanity" by Martha Stout.
I don't find it difficult at all not to tell anyone. The fallout from telling would way outweigh any support I might get. I'm even afraid to tell anything here. Even doctors who should know better react with a bit of.... I don't know what to call it. But no where near as matter of factly as my therapist. It makes me feel bad.
>
> > I prefer "ego state" to "alter" because the word "alter" seems to imply that there is a core and then there are alters, and that really isn't the case with me. Or if it is, I have no idea which is which.
>
> I noticed you used the phrase ego state before. What does that mean actually? So you don't have any alter personalities and never did, or they have all integrated after you achieved co-consciousness?I have no desire for integration. I resent the very idea. The "emotional" side of me would think it would really mean letting the responsible, grown up, rational, emotionally limited shell of a human who everyone thinks of as "Dinah", who goes to work, and who interacts the world take over. The "rational" side of me wants nothing to do with the messy emotions. I'm pretty firm on not wanting integration and my therapist is respectful of that.
I dislike the word alter because the "emotional" side of me would claim that that was the original Dinah and the "rational" side was merely a "front" that developed the illusion of separate consciousness - like Data on Star Trek? The "rational" side would insist that since that's the part that largely that interacts with the world and is present most of the time, the "emotional" side is just a troublesome leftover of what it chose to leave behind. So each side claims core personality status and neither wishes to be called an alter. The term ego state is much preferred. Separate centers of consciousness would be even better, but more unwieldly. Separate levels of consciousness is what my therapist would say. And that works out just fine with me too.
> > And I suspect you're right about people wanting demand performances. And you're right that that is abusive. I am sooooo glad my therapist reacts as matter of factly as I do. He never asks to speak to some other part of me, or does anything that makes me feel like I'm anything but a perfectly normal human being.
>
> What do you mean that he never asks to speak to some "other" part of you? How would he do that? I feel like my T treats me with respect and absolutely like a normal human being but he naturally wants contact with my alters too.
>
My emotional self was only able to communicate by bolts of emotion for many years and I would just find myself doing things I didn't understand or having reactions that made no sense to me. I spoke in terms of me and me back then, but the emotional self just started directly communicating a year or so ago. My therapist never asked before then, because he didn't want to encourage an iatrogenic phenomenon. My therapist never asked after that because he never really makes a big deal about it, and asking would make a big deal of it. He just talks to whatever ego states presents himself. He talks to them in a different way, in the way that each is likely to respond to by appealing to, say, logic or emotion (or self interest) as needed. But he would never dream of asking to talk to whoever wasn't there. For one thing, I would probably resent that. For another thing, it's just not that easy to comply. I can't shift back and forth on request. My emotional self usually shows up for therapy. My rational self, of course, feels no need for therapy.> I hope you don't mind me asking you some questions, I was just a little confused by some of the things you said and really want to understand what you meant!
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I don't blame you for being confused. I don't think I'm the typical presentation of anything. Hence the DD-NOS rather than DID. But I hope I didn't offend by venting my own frustration.
Posted by DaisyM on April 10, 2004, at 15:58:11
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx?, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2004, at 9:38:43
I want to jump in here, if I can.
I don't have DID but I since being in therapy I definately have a couple of voices going off. The biggest differentiation for me is my "adult" voice and my "child" voice. They are co-conscious but really hate what each other wants. I would liken this to Dinah's emotional/rational states.
The biggest difference for me is around the expression of need for nurturing. The child part has been unleashed by therapy and she *demands* a lot of my Therapist. She wants to be heard and has a lot of hard things to share. The adult wants to contain her, 1) because her stuff is too hard to hear 2) her stuff is so old, it isn't relevent to the adult's life anymore and 3)her emotions make it really hard for the adult to function so that nobody notices the suffering. Plus the child is frightened that sharing the old, bad stuff will overwhelm my therapist, resulting in abandonment, so she wants a lot of contact. The adult deals with the abandonment fears by keeping an emotional distance and talking about practical problems that need solving.
So, not two diffent personalities, but two different states and ages. I find it all very disconcerting, especially talking about myself in parts. I try not to do that too much but it is impossible to describe the circular arguments that go on in my head without talking about the two voices. I definately don't talk about different voices outside of therapy...or here.
My Therapist has asked directly to talk to the child part. Before that, I talked about "her" or what she wanted but the adult always edited out most of the needy stuff. The first time he asked, it was really awful for me. "She" spilled out all this stuff and "I" couldn't get her to shut up. At the next session I asked him "why did he do that?!" He told me she was "right there." He could feel her in the room with us and thought it was important to let her talk. It took me weeks to forgive him. But I did not feel disrespected at all. And I doubt I would have let her out if he hadn't asked and then worked hard afterward to let the adult part know that what the child said was OK.
I guess everyone's experience is really different and maybe therapy naturally has us examining ourselves in parts and stages. I'm sure having "true" DID is much harder than what I've experienced. I appreciate this thread and I've learned a lot.
Posted by Dinah on April 10, 2004, at 20:44:14
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx?, posted by DaisyM on April 10, 2004, at 15:58:11
I guess it's possible that at some distant past point in therapy he asked to speak to the part who... whatever. But if so, it was so long ago I can't remember.
Now he would no sooner request to speak to a different part of me than he would ask me to leave the room so he could speak to another client. :)
And I would view it just about the same way.
Posted by Dinah on April 11, 2004, at 10:09:00
In reply to Re: Multiple Personality: A shameful, nonexistent dx? » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2004, at 20:44:14
Or think I'm deranged? Or my therapist's favorite word (tho not about this), troubled? Or as an oddity or as a freak? It really isn't a big deal, or at least in my case it isn't.
I was scared to tell, but I didn't think I should continue be ashamed of me.
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