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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by andrew13 on June 10, 2002, at 12:33:48
Anyone else in psychoanalysis?
Recently it has been suggested by my therapist that it would be useful to look at hypomanias as a way of avoiding other feelings.
I am a bit bemused by this as it seems to negate the biological basis of the illness.
Anyone got ideas about this type of approach?
Posted by judy1 on June 10, 2002, at 14:14:39
In reply to Manic Defence and therapy, posted by andrew13 on June 10, 2002, at 12:33:48
Either we have the same shrink or this is a shared phenomenon. I posted a while back on this subject and no one seemed aware it. Personally, I don't think bipolar disorder is 100% biologically based and theoretically why can't hypomania be used in the same way as denial as a coping mechanism. Does your therapist think you are using it in that fashion? Do you see some sort of pattern related to what's being discussed in therapy to your episodes? I found no pattern in my own case but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Thanks for posting- judy
Posted by andrew13 on June 11, 2002, at 6:59:21
In reply to Re: Manic Defence and therapy » andrew13, posted by judy1 on June 10, 2002, at 14:14:39
Thanks for responding Judy1. Were is your post on similar lines? I'd like to read it.
Essentially it is being suggested that my hypomanias are a way of denying depressive/traumatic feelings which have yet to be explored. However i feel angry with my therapist as it seems to me that she is downplaying the distress that this causes or is suggesting that i am making it (hypomania) all up and that it is something that i deliberatley do.
Either way i feel that she is suggesting that i am being dishonest.
Hope this is not to rambling, repetitive orconfusing. Any thoughts welcome!
Posted by judy1 on June 11, 2002, at 16:14:25
In reply to Re: Manic Defence and therapy (cont'd) » judy1, posted by andrew13 on June 11, 2002, at 6:59:21
I think you need to tell her the anger you are feeling- I doubt very much she thinks you are deliberately doing this (having hypomanic episodes) rather she feels that it is unconcious on your part and she probably wanted to get your feelings to her suggestion. I honestly can't remember the time frame I wrote my post, but it was similar to yours. My response was confusion and then when I agreed to track my episodes it was obvious my shrink was wrong. If you are a rapid-cycler it's probably easier to track and just to prove her wrong you might want to try it. Is she correct that you have been through trauma? If so, then yes we all develop defenses- some extremely unhealthy like self-injury (SI), dissociation, etc. I have no control over my SI, I wish I did and it's something my therapist and I are working on. I hope this makes sense to you. Take care, Judy
Posted by Bookgurl99 on June 11, 2002, at 17:15:33
In reply to Manic Defence and therapy, posted by andrew13 on June 10, 2002, at 12:33:48
I went through a really stressful event recently and had manic-type symptoms for about a month.
I think it MAY have been a response to stress, but it felt very physical. I couldn't sleep and wanted to!
Posted by milahra on March 28, 2004, at 12:46:32
In reply to Re: Manic Defence and therapy, posted by Bookgurl99 on June 11, 2002, at 17:15:33
> I went through a really stressful event recently and had manic-type symptoms for about a month.
>
> I think it MAY have been a response to stress, but it felt very physical. I couldn't sleep and wanted to!
I can't begin to say how grateful I am that someone is actually TALKING about "manic defence" as an entity in itself. I *know* that it is true of me, for all the reasons that others here seems familiar with - triggered by stress, particularly stress related to previous trauma. As someone else who has posted in this thread, I *also* experience dissociation, and between the seductive highs (which are *so* unreal) of my manic defence (they occur daily) and the experience of "other people" vying for executive control of my life, my struggle to maintain function and relationships takes all my time and my work!Glad to have finally said that to someone who, I expect, will actually understand (maybe!??)
I would dearly like to come back to this subject.
Thanks
(This is my first post to Psycho-Babble. I'd have to say however, that I am an "old hand" at both being "psycho" :) and at "babbling" :)
For now,
milahra
Posted by gardenergirl on March 28, 2004, at 14:03:12
In reply to Re: Manic Defence and therapy » Bookgurl99, posted by milahra on March 28, 2004, at 12:46:32
Posted by terrics on March 28, 2004, at 16:51:31
In reply to Re: Manic Defence and therapy » Bookgurl99, posted by milahra on March 28, 2004, at 12:46:32
Hi, hope you like it here. There are lots of questions,lots of answers, and lots of opinions here, so I hope you find what you need. terrics
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2004, at 18:24:24
In reply to Re: Manic Defence and therapy » Bookgurl99, posted by milahra on March 28, 2004, at 12:46:32
Hi and welcome. :)
I have always thought my OCD was partially a defense mechanism. But I don't feel that way about my hypomanias. They are almost always brought on by medication changes or by sleep deprivation so they feel very physical.
I'll admit to trying to induce them on purpose sometimes. They come in very handy when I am trying to get work done, although I probably spend more than I make when I'm in one.
And I should add that I'm not prone to full blown mania. My hypomanias are sometimes pleasant and sometimes very unpleasant, but I would definitely not try to induce mania.
Posted by milahra on March 28, 2004, at 20:55:32
In reply to Re: Manic Defence and therapy » milahra, posted by Dinah on March 28, 2004, at 18:24:24
To Gardenergirl, terrics and Dinah,
thank you *very* much for your welcome. It was lovely to feel that I am, in fact, part of a community here.
I have *so* much to say over time. My own history of psychiatric disturbance - and different diagnoses - goes back over 30 years. Along with that, of course, like all of us who must contend with difficult and complex thought and mood disturbance, I have learned a great deal about myself. Till now, that hasn't freed me of it, but I am much more confident in my direction.
I'm just sorry that so many others see my "lack" and not the strength behind what I've learned.
-------------
I actually want to address a couple of things which you mention, Dinah, but rather than cover it all in one post, I will start a new thread after this: "Practical obsessivness".
I too can induce my "hypomanias" and, like you, they are unavoidable if I am overtired or go off meds (Sodium Valproate, Prozac and occasional Diazepam). I have also found that monthly hormonal changes (even though I've passed menopause) greatly contribute to my "highs". I recognize a collection of symptoms then: can't sleep as well, bowel upset, general feeling of weakness etc. (Maybe it is the tiredness that again triggers the highs?)
Whatever is it is that physically predisposes me to my "highs", I also know well by now that they **always** respond to methods that **don't** involve any physical interference - even if I don't take my meds. It is just much harder in that case to stay centred. I'm *much* more easily thrown off centre when tired or off meds.
Like you, I never become fully manic. It is many years ago, and only for a short time, that I was thought to be bipolar. It's not been on the agenda since. [ Psychiatry itself has learned a lot over the years :) ] What hurts and surprises me to an extent, is the number of people who can't see past "bipolar" even when I explain that I am *not*. People like to stay with what is most familiar. "Mania" is well known in the wider community, and my behaviour is *clearly* hypomanic. "Manic defence" isn't well known even in the psych community, and I find that sad.
The best thing (about the *only* thing) I've ever read about manic defence is an article written years ago by Greg Mogenson, a Jungian Analyst titled "Escaping to the Angels: A Note on the Passing of the Manic Defense". For anyone who would like to read it, the URL is:
http://www.cgjungpage.org/content/view/121/28/
I know that hypmania is well known to enable us to accomplish things, as you say you can do, but mine mostly don't. They are *so* related to stress and fear that I am unable to achieve anything.
I talk easily. Hope that is ok?!
Will catch up again. Thank you again for the welcome. I'll try to make the new thread about obsessiveness shorter! :)
For now,
milahra
Posted by judy1 on March 31, 2004, at 17:55:06
In reply to Re: Manic Defence and therapy (and hellos) » Dinah, posted by milahra on March 28, 2004, at 20:55:32
It's nice to see you restart this thread. The past 2 weeks or so has definitely been supportive of the 'manic defense' theory on my part. after my pdoc terminated me, I got manic (actually just hypo, I took meds before it became full blown). This was a definite reaction to what had happened. My therp and I talked about how that's the only time I truly feel- have emotions- during manic or depressive episodes. the rest of the time it's as if I'm play acting at being normal. read your Jungian article and found it interesting.
take care, judy
Posted by milahra on March 31, 2004, at 22:07:57
In reply to Re: Manic Defence and therapy » milahra, posted by judy1 on March 31, 2004, at 17:55:06
Thank you Judy.
This is an important subject to me and I never here of it. In fact, I've been thought to be self-deluding when I say that I am not bipolar, that my "hypomanic" behaviour is due to manic-defence - because manic defence is so poorly recognized.
I hope that more information will be found on this subject in boooks on general psychotherapy, in psychiatric practice and on the internet.
Perhaps in time we will see it.
For now,
All the best,
milahra
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