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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by poet on February 25, 2004, at 13:34:46
In reply to Therapist mentioned binge eating..., posted by Pandabear on February 24, 2004, at 20:46:19
Hi Pandabear,
I'm bulimic. Binging is disordered eating, but like Racer said it doesn't mean you have an eating disorder. I'm a purging bulimic, I know what triggers my binges.
Ask yourself these questions.
How often do I binge? Monthly? Weekly? Daily?
How long have I been binging? Years?
What's happening emotionally that might trigger a binge? (for me one of the triggers is failure.)
What do I think the binge will do for me: comfort, control, make me feel better (less depressed or stressed) etc.I'm pretty much in control these days, my last binge was a few months ago. My therapist just asks once and awhile "how my eating is."
Let me know if I can be of more help.
Poet
Posted by Poet on February 25, 2004, at 13:36:18
In reply to Re: Therapist mentioned binge eating..., posted by poet on February 25, 2004, at 13:34:46
Posted by terrics on February 25, 2004, at 15:58:36
In reply to Therapist mentioned binge eating..., posted by Pandabear on February 24, 2004, at 20:46:19
Hi, Do you know why your therapist asked you this? Did you bring it up first? If your T. brought it up, ask her why. I usually eat a normal amount of food, but on occasion I eat A LOT. I do not consider myself a binge eater.
Let us know what happens. terrics
Posted by Pandabear on February 25, 2004, at 16:28:18
In reply to Re: Therapist mentioned binge eating... » Pandabear, posted by terrics on February 25, 2004, at 15:58:36
Can someone give me a description of what binge eating looks like and is....Im not purging...if it is really binge eating...im not sure what it is..I do have occasions where I seem to want to eat everything I own that is food. For example..I might eat two bowls of cereal, a frozen dinner, a granola bar, and maybe 3 ice cream sandwhiches...IM not saying i have done exactly this..im just saying..I do random food splurges like this..every now and then..and yes..i do consider food a comfort to me. When I am depressed i tend to eat more food..and in my mind, I am thinking that I dont care if it makes me fat..its of comfort to me...IM not overweight...actually my weight went down 12 pounds from coming off of depakote..but now its starting to go back up...:( I just need some advice...thanks.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 25, 2004, at 17:27:29
In reply to Re: Therapist mentioned binge eating..., posted by Pandabear on February 25, 2004, at 16:28:18
Panda,
From the DSM-IV-TR:
Binge eating is characterized as including both of the following:
1)eating, in a discrete period of time (e.g. within any 2-hour period), an amount of food that is definitely larger than most people would eat during a similar period of time and under similar circumstances. [sounds fairly subjective, but consider usual servings versus the whole package of something as an example]
2)a sense of lack of control over eating during the episode (e.g. a feeling that one cannot stop eating or control what or how much one is eating).There is a new diagnosis of binge eating disorder, which needs more research before it makes it officially in the DSM . This would be someone who binges but does not purge or do any other compensatory things like restrict intake, use laxatives, etc. to make up for the binge. I have a client right now who fits this diagnosis.
There are times what I do would also be considered a binge. Usually under stress or when depression is worse.
Hope this helps,
gg
Posted by Racer on February 25, 2004, at 20:08:49
In reply to Re: Therapist mentioned binge eating..., posted by Pandabear on February 25, 2004, at 16:28:18
If you read my post above, you'll see a concrete suggestion of something *you* can *do* to recognize whether or not your eating pattern constitutes binging. Write a diary of what you consume and when. It's not difficult to do, it's just hard to do -- if that makes sense. The act of writing down what you eat isn't the hard part, the hard part is the emotional reaction to doing it.
So, I'm gonna say this again: you asked for advice, you've gotten a lot of good advice from a lot of people, and all I read in your post is that it isn't what you wanted.
It is perfectly OK to say, "I just want someone to offer comfort or reassurance to me right now." We all need that, it's normal, it's very healthy to be able to say it. Being able to reach out and say to others, "Please, just tell me it's OK" is a sign of strength, and confidence, and all sorts of other things.
On the other hand, it's really frustrating to me, personally, to take the time to offer words I intend as consoling, with practical advice on a constructive action you can take to alleviate your own pain, only to have you dismiss it so cavalierly. Yeah, I know, we're all sick here. Maybe it's the feeling I get that you're more interested in passively enjoying your status as Officially Lacking In Responsibility Due To Mental Disease Or Defect, than you are in doing anything at all about it.
Sorry for any feelings hurt in saying this. My feelings are rather hurt that you don't even bother to say Thank You to anyone here. You have a choice in front of you, by the way. You *can* choose to work on getting better. Or not.
Posted by Pandabear on February 25, 2004, at 20:44:28
In reply to At the risk of a PBC » Pandabear, posted by Racer on February 25, 2004, at 20:08:49
Ok first off, I am completely sorry if I offended you by not responding with anything towards your post to me. I do appreciate every word of advice that is being given to me. I have been extremely busy and have NOT had ANY TIME to post things but I will tell you that I HAVE THANKED PEOPLE IN GENERAL. I feel blessed to have a site that I can talk to complete strangers that are going through similiar issues.
I WAS going to post a thank you to you because you are right that keeping a log of what I eat is the smart thing to do. I was taking TIME to think on your post because what you were suggesting to me was something that I had started doing and I thought it was great that I had thought of the idea as well.
Yes, My feelings are hurt because I didnt think that this was a place where you could point to someone and tell them that they are wrong when all they are trying to do is get advice. I have thanked many a person for their help with my situations and I am going to continue doing so. I have said in a previous posting that I cannot offer advice to anyone because I dont feel like I am at a place where I can offer any..but please know that I am very greatful for all advice..including yours) that is given to me.
Im sorry if anybody else is feeling this way about me. I never meant to hurt anyones feelings. This posting to me really upset me...I dont need to be obsessing over the fact that a complete stranger is irritated with me. Im sorry if i upset you, Im going to stay off of this site for a while and try and deal with stuff on my own for a while. This place has been a saving grace for me but I feel as though my welcome is wearing out. I will hopefully return soon because I have gotten GREAT advice and comfort from many people..incuding you Racer, and yes, again, I have thanked many people on this site and I am sorry if anyone is hurt by me. Goodbye for now. <><
Posted by underthecs on February 25, 2004, at 21:16:52
In reply to Re: At the risk of a PBC » Racer, posted by Pandabear on February 25, 2004, at 20:44:28
i appreciate your post. i'm dealing with the same issue (one of many). i think racer's post was out of line and is creating a hostile environment. please don't quit posting becuz of one person's insensitive remarks. just my two cents...
Posted by Elle2021 on February 25, 2004, at 22:38:20
In reply to Re: At the risk of a PBC » Racer, posted by Pandabear on February 25, 2004, at 20:44:28
I don't feel that way about you at all. I understand that sometimes our mental state isn't in the position to offer advice or properly thank people for it. I know that on a number of occasions I have been too depressed and too lethargic to sit down at the computer and thank each and every person for their advice. That does NOT mean that I don't appreciate it. I am very thankful for every comforting post I recieve and all the advice I get. It's just that some days I feel so hopeless and utterly depressed that I just can't get motivated. I don't mean to hurt feelings by not saying thank you. I hope you continue posting here. I felt like the last post you wrote was a sort of goodbye. I enjoy reading your posts.
Elle
Posted by Pandabear on February 25, 2004, at 22:51:00
In reply to Re: At the risk of a PBC » Pandabear, posted by Elle2021 on February 25, 2004, at 22:38:20
Thank you for telling me you are ok with my posts..Im not leaving for good..I just need to back off for a while..I dont want there to be any negative feelings towards me..because Im not trying to upset or hurt anyone...I too am really thankful for the advice and help that I get on this site even if I dont express it...I think it should be a given to everyone that we are all thankful for the advice that we are receiving whether or not we express it..you know? We may not agree with some of what is said but all the advice and comments I have been receiving have been of help..so YES, Im greatful. I will be back soon...:) I will probably start posting on friday..
Posted by Elle2021 on February 25, 2004, at 22:58:53
In reply to Re: At the risk of a PBC » Elle2021, posted by Pandabear on February 25, 2004, at 22:51:00
> I will be back soon...:) I will probably start posting on friday..
I look forward to then. :)
Elle
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 26, 2004, at 1:08:48
In reply to Re: At the risk of a PBC » Pandabear, posted by underthecs on February 25, 2004, at 21:16:52
> you dismiss it so cavalierly... Maybe it's the feeling I get that you're more interested in passively enjoying your status as Officially Lacking In Responsibility Due To Mental Disease Or Defect, than you are in doing anything at all about it.
>
> Racer> i think racer's post was out of line and is creating a hostile environment. please don't quit posting becuz of one person's insensitive remarks.
>
> underthecsKeeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, could you two please rephrase the above?
If you have any questions about this or comments about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways to express yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on February 26, 2004, at 6:53:33
In reply to Re: At the risk of a PBC » Pandabear, posted by Elle2021 on February 25, 2004, at 22:38:20
I'm with Elle on this. I also don't always have the time or mental/emotional energy to respond to every post I would like, particulary to do individual thank you's like some are so good at. I try (sigh) but not always able. I certainly hope that would not drive someone away or offend someone.
We all have good days and bad days, and perhaps Racer needs some support as well. We all do.
So, hugs and support to all en masse.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Racer on February 26, 2004, at 11:30:49
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Racer » underthecs, posted by Dr. Bob on February 26, 2004, at 1:08:48
I wrote that at a bad time, and I should have thought more before posting it. The views expressed were largely based on my own frustrations in the moment, and it was thoughtless to present them as I did.
Let me try that again, and see if I can get out what I meant a little better:
For everyone who really just wants comfort, and feels as if it's not OK to ask for comfort alone -- it is OK to ask for it. You never have to try to justify it, you never have to try to make it make sense. It's perfectly OK to say, "I don't know why it hurts so much, but I need someone to comfort me." That was actually a big part of what I was hoping to convey, which obviously got lost in my post.
The second thing, and this is partially an excuse or rationalization because of my own little dramas, is that any sort of disordered eating post is a major trigger for me. When I read one, I think of all the pain I've gone though over many long years, and how much I struggle with it now. I'm often unable to read those posts without loading them with my own baggage, and probably read more into them than they actually contain. I'm pretty sure I can't express what I wanted to express any better than I did above, but I will try.
Body image is such a vital part of all of us. It informs so much of our lives, and yet it's often quite distorted. Eating habits influence cognition and mood. Even someone who does not meet the diagnostic criteria for An Official Eating Disorder should still try to be aware of how much disordered eating habits affect your psychological state. If you suspect a problem, NOW is the time to talk about it, because it won't get better, and it won't stay the same. These things are self-replicating, and can take over your life -- often without your being aware of it.
I'm also a big believer in asking your therapist why he/she brought something like that up. Maybe it's me being suspicious, maybe it's good sense, maybe I don't know a thing about it, but a lot of times we don't recognize our own behavior and patterns as well as others do. We can learn a lot from what others tell us, but sometimes we have to ask, and sometimes we have to suspend disbelief when they try to answer.
Two final things I'd like to say, one about my own frustrations, the other just a general plea to any women on this board.
I've got a problem with anything I perceive as passive acceptance of anything, mostly on my own part, but it does trigger things for me when I hear about others doing what I perceive as passively accepting something. I also have a great fear of becoming my diagnosis, and when I read anything that sounds like, "I can't help [x], because I'm [dx]" to me, I overreact. That's apparently what I did in this case. I offer apologies to everyone I offended.
Last, for women, about weight and beauty. I was weaned on fine art, by an artist, who would point out to me the beauty in many human forms around us. Who here remembers Xena, Warrior Princess? The quite voluptous looking Lucy Lawless was at an event I attended during the run of that show. The beautiful, rounded curves so apparent on TV were nowhere to be seen. She was slender, a very lovely woman, but all those curves were the result of that old "the camera puts on ten pounds" effect. Beauty comes from a sense of confidence, in many cases, rather than bone structure alone. Thin is not beautiful, and plump can be beautiful. The only absolute I've found to date is this: women are beautiful when they live comfortably within their own skin.
The other absolute I've gleaned over the years is that the quest for thinness is harmful to many, many women. Not only those who are suffering from any sort of eating disorder, but even those lucky women who are in perfect mental health, but still worry about those few pounds they think would make them "better." It makes me both sad and angry to see that, knowing that some of them are so much more beautiful than they'll ever really know, and still suffer over something as ridiculous as a few pounds that actually make them *more* beautiful.
When I hear about young women doing anything that I perceive as falling into the trap of trying to reach unrealistic physical appearance, or eating only at night to keep their weight down, I over react. I feel a great need to step in and offer what I have learned about nutrition, healthy weight loss without overdoing, etc. I get very frustrated when I perceive that to have been dismissed, probably because it was so hard learned on my part.
So, yes, my feelings were hurt. It felt like a slap in the face. Those are my feelings, and I won't stuff them down. I am sorry that I wrote before thinking, and I am sorry that I offended so many people. I will try to go forth and sin no more.
Posted by Pandabear on February 26, 2004, at 11:35:57
In reply to At the risk of a PBC » Pandabear, posted by Racer on February 25, 2004, at 20:08:49
Racer, I just wanted to tell you that I am doing the best that I have been doing in two years. And, no I am not trying to enjoy my sickness. I dont enjoy it at all. I do want to get better, and I have been improving every day. Im the best I have been in a really long time. I dont know what your status is, but I want you to know that I hope you are getting wonderful support from your friends and this site that I have been. If my posts are annoying you then please stop reading them...I dont want to upset or offend anyone. But this issue is over with..I dont want to dwell on this anymore, and since I tend to obsess over things, Im NOT going to obsess over this, so thanks for your concern..and I hope you take care.
<><
Posted by Medusa on February 26, 2004, at 11:40:03
In reply to Therapist mentioned binge eating..., posted by Pandabear on February 24, 2004, at 20:46:19
> I have always been one that eats until I cannot eat anymore..rather than stopping when I feel full..
>Panda, what's important is self-care. "Food issues" are never about food per se ... it's about feeding yourself, taking care of You. Sometimes food is the appropriate (or best match) comfort, and that's A-OK.
If you'd like info about specific resources (a discussion list for example) based on the it's-not-about-food approach, feel free to get my e-mail address from Dinah. (sorry, I haven't set up a babble addy yet.)
Posted by Pandabear on February 26, 2004, at 11:51:52
In reply to whether it's binge eating or not ... » Pandabear, posted by Medusa on February 26, 2004, at 11:40:03
Thank you so much...You know, Im not sure at all that i have an eating disorder...Im pretty sure I dont..but, I hate saying that i do or dont because I dont know what it looks like..I have gotten many thoughts about it though from different posts..and from whats being described..I dont think I have it..Im going to ask my therapist a bout it next wednesday though...to see what she has to say...And, yes..Im having to learn how to take care of myself and to depend on myself rather than others..so its hard but Im trying my best to take care of me...:) thanks...:)
PB
Posted by Racer on February 26, 2004, at 14:44:31
In reply to Re: At the risk of a PBC » Racer, posted by Pandabear on February 26, 2004, at 11:35:57
I guess I'm just not communicating well these days. I had hoped that I'd expressed an apology in my last post, albeit with excuses for myself. Let me try again:
I'm sorry I offended you. My feelings are my problem, and I'm sorry that I expressed them without thinking about their possible effect on you. Good luck with your program for recovery.
Posted by antigua on February 26, 2004, at 15:08:45
In reply to You're right, and I apologize » Dr. Bob, posted by Racer on February 26, 2004, at 11:30:49
Hello Racer, pardon me for butting in here, but I was wondering if you were speaking from experience or offering your opinion of eating disorders? You seem to be knowledgeable about nutrition.
antigua
Posted by Crooked Heart on February 26, 2004, at 15:37:29
In reply to Re: At the risk of a PBC » Pandabear, posted by Elle2021 on February 25, 2004, at 22:58:53
> > I will be back soon...:) I will probably start posting on friday..
>
> I look forward to then. :)
> ElleYeah, I was worried you were going to stop, too.
All the best, CH
Posted by Crooked Heart on February 26, 2004, at 15:50:38
In reply to You're right, and I apologize » Dr. Bob, posted by Racer on February 26, 2004, at 11:30:49
women are beautiful when they live comfortably within their own skin.
>
>It makes me both sad and angry to see that, knowing that some of them are so much more beautiful than they'll ever really know, and still suffer over something as ridiculous as a few pounds that actually make them *more* beautiful.
>
> When I hear about young women doing anything that I perceive as falling into the trap of trying to reach unrealistic physical appearance, or eating only at night to keep their weight down, I over react.I wish I could write as well as you. But what you say there pushes *my* buttons. It makes me so angry especially when it's not just young women, it's nine-year-olds. Which was the almighty authority that said only size 10 is beautiful?
Posted by Racer on February 26, 2004, at 16:47:17
In reply to Re: You're right, and I apologize » Racer, posted by antigua on February 26, 2004, at 15:08:45
Unfortunately, I am speaking (well, typing) from experience. I've battled with my weight issues for most of my life, and, while I've gained a lot of intellectual understanding of them, I can't say I've won the war. The rational part of that is all well and good, but at this point I have to try to learn to move past that, into the more visceral understanding of it all. That's the hardest part for me.
As for understanding nutrition, I have a certain knowledge in that area, largely from working with animals. With animals, it's a whole lot easier to see the effects of dietary changes. There's not so much existential angst involved, so it's a little purer view of the whole picture. I've extrapolated what I've seen in animals and paid attention -- as best I could -- to similar changes in myself. As a statistical model, that's worthless, of course. Sample sizes of one don't count. On the other hand, I wish someone had been able to use the knowledge I now have in such a way that it could have helped me twenty five years ago. That frustration, that what I now know seems so natural and so glaring and yet no one ever seemed to see it, is probably why eating and weight topics are so powerful for me.
Anyway, I'm always happy to pass on anything I know on the subject, so if you think it could help you in any way, please feel free to ask. It's something I feel strongly about -- obviously -- and while it's definitely of limited value, it's yours for the asking.
Posted by Racer on February 26, 2004, at 17:01:12
In reply to Re: You're right, and I apologize » Racer, posted by Crooked Heart on February 26, 2004, at 15:50:38
If I go into all of what I have to say on this subject, it make this whole post unsuitable for the Psychology board, but here's a little tiny bite for you, because you're absolutely right. It isn't just young women, it is 9 year olds, and it is middle aged women and it is senior aged women. The size 10 model as the proper size in any meaningful way is wrong. Did you know that clothing companies have changed their definitions of size, by the way? During periods when big breasts are in style, the bra companies make smaller cups so that women can feel happier about buying more bras. Clothing manufacturers make the size ten about the same dimensions now as the size 16 to 18 back when the standards were first put in place. (That's why, if you sew, you'll be using about four sizes larger in a pattern than you buy off the rack.) When a woman gets to buy a size 10 instead of a size 12, she feels good and buys more. It's a conditioned response thing, and the manufacturers and retails know how to play the game.
And at the same time, you've got the corporate welfare programs that produce more corn than we can ever use, leading to corn syrup in everything, the obesity epidemic, *and* a "thin is the only acceptable body type" construct.
The bottom line is this: we are being told that what we are isn't good enough. It happens with men, too, although it's usually in other arenas, so we can't say it's just women who suffer from it. On the other hand, it *is* a major issue for many women, and it's hardly ever addressed in truly constructive ways. Instead, we're seeing pressure on small children -- who really need that nutrition and whose eating habits are being shaped for the rest of their lives -- to conform to an unreasonable standard.
Heheheh, I know, I know, but it just all came out...
(Oh, yeah, and while the first part -- about sizing -- sounds mostly like the sort of crank conspiracy stuff you hear sometimes, it really isn't. I sew a lot of clothes, and I have a lot of patterns from my mother and grandmother, and I've read about pattern size standards. There really was a standard agreed upon -- although I can't remember which decade, maybe 1940s -- and the patterns are sized according to it, although that's finally starting to change. I sew -- usually -- about a size 12 or 14 for myself. Off the rack, I'm a size 6.)
Posted by obSession on February 26, 2004, at 17:23:14
In reply to Therapist mentioned binge eating..., posted by Pandabear on February 24, 2004, at 20:46:19
HI
A therapist once said that sometimes you keep eating or feel the need regardless of your weight or if u have a disorder to try and fill an emptiness ...which is an emotional thing!
it make sense to me ,maybe it will make sense to u too :)
Posted by gabbix2 on February 26, 2004, at 17:29:13
In reply to You're right, and I apologize » Dr. Bob, posted by Racer on February 26, 2004, at 11:30:49
> Thin is not beautiful, and plump can be beautiful.
It bothers me when I see *any* body type being disparaged. Thin can be very beautiful.
I know some women who eat a lot and are just naturally tiny. They hurt just the same when they read articles or are told how they look scrawny or anorexic. I don't think equality means having to put someone down in order to raise up another.
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