![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 12:08:44
And tried to figure out ways that it could be done without compromising my feeling of safety.
And I got challenged on the way I suggested it, on how I felt safety, and on what he calls my refusal to take responsibility for my therapy.
Well, H*LL, I took responsibility by suggesting he challenge me more, and by attempting to identify the factors that would enable me to feel safe while he did it. Because otherwise I couldn't tolerate the challenge. And the area I chose to work on was my reluctance to be challenged.
I'm going to bed.
&*(^^% therapists, (*& *%E$%#* challenge... mutter mutter mutter
Posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 14:09:22
In reply to Well, I suggested we try challenging again, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 12:08:44
He says I didn't say that. I remember the words specifically, and it didn't seem that there was any room for interpretation. "You are trying to make me take responsibility for your therapy, and you have to take it yourself." But I trust that he never lies, so I must have heard wrong.
It's not worth worrying about.
Posted by 64Bowtie on February 23, 2004, at 17:49:45
In reply to Well, I suggested we try challenging again, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 12:08:44
Posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 18:14:18
In reply to I been gone - How is Harry? (nm) » Dinah, posted by 64Bowtie on February 23, 2004, at 17:49:45
He shakes a lot but is fine when I hold him. Not sure whether he's feeling bad or has figured out a way to be held all the time.
How are you doing?
Posted by gardenergirl on February 23, 2004, at 19:29:18
In reply to I been gone - How is Harry? (nm) » Dinah, posted by 64Bowtie on February 23, 2004, at 17:49:45
Posted by gardenergirl on February 23, 2004, at 19:32:41
In reply to Well, I suggested we try challenging again, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 12:08:44
Dinah,
I'm sorry it didn't go well. You get points for trying as far as I'm concerned. Considering how you expressed how uncomfortable with challenging you are, it's a shame that your T was not able to follow your lead on this.My own T is "on my list" at the moment. After all the mess from last week, I was REALLY looking forward to talking to him today. I even brought in a childhood picture I recently found. But he double-booked! I sat in the waiting room wondering what the heck was going on for 45 minutes only to see him just to reschedule for tomorrow. I had better practice assertive expression of anger or that will be all we talk about. And I've got another agenda to get to.
Take care. I hope next session goes better!
Give Harry a big hug. And here's one from me (((Dinah and Harry)))
gg
Posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 19:38:15
In reply to Re: Well, I suggested we try challenging again, posted by gardenergirl on February 23, 2004, at 19:32:41
Wwwwhooooweeeee. MAJOR therapist blunder. Give him heck. In fact if I were you, I'd insiste he pay me for the previous hour, leaving us square for the next one. But I can be obnoxiously assertive.
You know the thing that really got to me was that he accused me of both dumping the responsibility onto him and trying to control him. Mutually exclusive I would have thought. Scowl. Except I forgot. He said he didn't accuse me of trying to put the responsibility on him. I really really do trust him to tell me the truth, but I think I'm going to have to repeat what I heard and ask him what else he could have meant by it...
Posted by gardenergirl on February 23, 2004, at 19:45:45
In reply to Re: Well, I suggested we try challenging again » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 19:38:15
Dinah,
I don't pay because it's through school. I'm lucky that way. Maybe I can get him to spend an hour cleaning up my data. Snicker. That will teach him. How tedious.I think clarifying with your T is a good idea. It certainly seems like it is bothering you, and of course you want to clear that space before going on. Perhaps you could consider recording your sessions? Then you could listen again and have the exact words. They may trigger a different reaction after a bit of time. In the moment, everything can seem so charged. Of course, you would also have evidence of exactly what was said to help him see what the deal is.
Just a thought,
gg
Posted by rs on February 23, 2004, at 19:52:07
In reply to Re: Well, I suggested we try challenging again, posted by gardenergirl on February 23, 2004, at 19:32:41
Oh my. You handled that much better then I would of. I hope you let him know how you felt. I would of been furious. Guess this is how I will learn from all of you folks. Best of luck tomorrow. Also you sound like a wonderful therapist.
Posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 20:00:30
In reply to Re: Well, I suggested we try challenging again, posted by gardenergirl on February 23, 2004, at 19:45:45
I'm way too paranoid to tape a session. He once had an empty tape recorder sitting in his office and I couldn't talk until he had unplugged it. :)
From "I Wish That I Had Duck Feet"
"They'll put me in the zoo house
With my horns and nose and feet.
And hay, just hay, two times a day
Is all I'd get to eat."I can barely stand to let my therapist listen to what I say in therapy. lol. I need to keep a certain amount of deniability to feel safe to divulge.
Have you ever used the tape recorder? I've heard that some people like it.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 24, 2004, at 6:34:54
In reply to Re: Well, I suggested we try challenging again » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 20:00:30
Dinah,
Love the duck feet. I've never used the tape recorder. I do videotape client sessions, but I've never had my sessions recorded. I think I heard of it for clients in my CBT training. And in my gero class, but of course I'm not implying that you fit into that demo. :)Take care and good luck in the next session,
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on February 24, 2004, at 6:44:35
In reply to Re: Well, I suggested we try challenging again » gardenergirl, posted by rs on February 23, 2004, at 19:52:07
Thanks for the kind words. Actually, I didn't get into it with him yesterday. I knew he had another person coming in next and I was near tears. But I see him this a.m., and I'll do my best to talk about how I feel about it. Hopefully we can quickly cover this as I have a lot I want to talk about today.
Thanks again!
gg
Posted by All Done on February 24, 2004, at 9:07:30
In reply to Well, I suggested we try challenging again, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 12:08:44
Dinah,
I'm with gardenergirl. I say keep trying. Again and again and again, if necessary. Perseverance is one of your good qualities and it will be worth it in the end.
My therapist and I had a talk last week about my faith. Faith in therapy, faith in him, and faith in myself. It sounds to me like you have faith in your therapist and that is why you fight the fight each time. It must be frustrating for you at times, but if I may quote you from an earlier thread…
“And so we battle for a relationship, because in my eyes it's worth it.”
“…he gives me something I have never been able to find elsewhere.”
“…learning to connect has also made me feel better.”
“I sensed that he was someone who would stay and fight to connect with me.”
“He feels just right, and always has.”
It sounds to me like the two of you are a great fit. More importantly, you think the two of you are a great fit.
Take care,
All Done
Posted by All Done on February 24, 2004, at 9:09:05
In reply to Welcome back. :) And I'm not sure. » 64Bowtie, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 18:14:18
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2004, at 9:55:36
In reply to Re: Well, I suggested we try challenging again » Dinah, posted by All Done on February 24, 2004, at 9:07:30
Oh, we'll work it out. It's not really an option for me.
But maybe the challenging needs to be put off, if yesterday was an example. I have tons of work lined up and yesterday I came home from therapy and slept. I only was able to stay awake for short periods of time till being down for the count again.
I can't afford that right now.
I'm kind of hoping Harry is just playing me for all he's worth. It's not really his style, but maybe he figures it's working so....
Posted by All Done on February 24, 2004, at 10:27:28
In reply to Re: Well, I suggested we try challenging again » All Done, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2004, at 9:55:36
> Oh, we'll work it out. It's not really an option for me.
Oh no, Dinah! I didn't mean to imply that not working it out is an option. Just trying to remind you of why you stick with him. It sounds like you have a great relationship that works for you and that's what's important.
> But maybe the challenging needs to be put off, if yesterday was an example. I have tons of work lined up and yesterday I came home from therapy and slept. I only was able to stay awake for short periods of time till being down for the count again.
>
> I can't afford that right now.I've noticed I go through cycles with my sessions. A few tough ones then a few lighter, for lack of a better word, ones. Step back and don't push yourself if the time isn't right.
> I'm kind of hoping Harry is just playing me for all he's worth. It's not really his style, but maybe he figures it's working so....
I think he's a smart doggie!
Posted by pegasus on February 24, 2004, at 10:33:38
In reply to Re: Well, I suggested we try challenging again » rs, posted by gardenergirl on February 24, 2004, at 6:44:35
Please let us know how it goes today. Being double booked is one of my greatest fears. I'd probably blame myself for getting the time wrong. I'd feel like I wasn't important enough to remember (I feel that way anyway, and I'm always amazed when they remember details about me). And I'd have a heck of a time expressing the anger that would obviously be there. Plus, then forever after, I'd be freaked out if there was anyone else in the waiting room when I was (there are lots of therapists in the same office, so there are other people waiting often). I hope your T is very apologetic!
- p
Posted by Karen_kay on February 24, 2004, at 11:54:18
In reply to Well, I suggested we try challenging again, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 12:08:44
Dinah my dear...
First of all give Harry a big hug for me and a treat... They can have as many treats as you want, you know...
You did take responsibility for therapy by suggesting more "challenging" and by giving guidelines as to how YOU FEEL it may not interupt your feelings of safety. That's wonderful. Challenge him if he can't accept the fact that you are willing to give in this "give and take" relationship. I'm proud of you for offering more challenging, as it seemed to hurt you last time. Great job on that. If he won't say it, I certainly will!!!!
So, why do you think that he believes you aren't taking responsibility for your therapy? Why would he make that assumption? There has to be a darn good reason for it! Try figuring it out and if you can't ask him why. Maybe you can afford more challenging if you also challenge him? That's something to think about.......
I'm sorry again that he wasn't so "open" to your suggestion. Maybe it made him feel inferior, as you suggested something goood that he didn't previously think up on his own? Possibly, Maybe???
I love ya you know.. And I'm SOOO proud of you for opening that door that last time hit you in the face... You're doing great, and we can all see it too...
Posted by gardenergirl on February 24, 2004, at 13:11:12
In reply to Re: Well, I suggested we try challenging again » gardenergirl, posted by pegasus on February 24, 2004, at 10:33:38
> Please let us know how it goes today. Being double booked is one of my greatest fears. I'd probably blame myself for getting the time wrong. I'd feel like I wasn't important enough to remember (I feel that way anyway, and I'm always amazed when they remember details about me). And I'd have a heck of a time expressing the anger that would obviously be there.
I'm right there with you on this one. We really didn't talk much about it. I was almost 15 minutes late for the session, which I apologized for and he downplayed since he always starts about 15 minutes late. He apologized again pretty strongly and explained how it happened. I took the easy way out and told him I had done the same thing once before, (although I caught it ahead of time.) Besides, I wanted to get into other stuff about last week. Turns out my sucky week had as much to do with the last session stirring things up as it did the events. Just what I need when I am going into a heavy work phase--being all stirred up! (sigh) I commend all of us who put ourselves through this in order to heal.I don't really worry about seeing others in the waiting room as it is also a health clinic as well as a counseling center. I have run into co-workers waiting for their T sessions before. That's fine with me, but sometimes they seem uncomfortable with running into me. Perhaps because I'm also their supervisor in one aspect of their job? (ugh, so complicated these dual roles).
Thanks for the thoughts,
gg
Posted by 64Bowtie on February 24, 2004, at 21:19:36
In reply to Welcome back. :) And I'm not sure. » 64Bowtie, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 18:14:18
Good to hear you, glad to be back...
Dinah,
I am struggling with a fundamental issue. As I see things, a person's feelings are not enough to sustain life. If my feelings conflict with other peoples' feelings, I want to say, "So what? Feelings don't solve problems, people do. Also, feelings are too easily changed to worry about, yet the only final resolution to peoples conflicts when the only differences are feelings, is violence, or at least coercion. What sense does that make?
I don't feel the same as some other person, so the remedy is violence? How about logic and reason and tolerance? No body dies then.
I was pbc'ed for studying these notions on the Faith Board. Have I been civil enough this time?
Ardie
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2004, at 21:56:51
In reply to Re: How are you doing........? » Dinah, posted by 64Bowtie on February 24, 2004, at 21:19:36
> Good to hear you, glad to be back...
>
> Dinah,
>
> I am struggling with a fundamental issue. As I see things, a person's feelings are not enough to sustain life. If my feelings conflict with other peoples' feelings, I want to say, "So what? Feelings don't solve problems, people do. Also, feelings are too easily changed to worry about, yet the only final resolution to peoples conflicts when the only differences are feelings, is violence, or at least coercion. What sense does that make?
>
Why do you say that? I don't understand what you're trying to say. There are tons of ways to resolve differences in feelings between people. Violence being the least of them, if all agree to respect each other *and* their feelings.> I don't feel the same as some other person, so the remedy is violence? How about logic and reason and tolerance? No body dies then.
>
What? I don't feel the same as tons of people. I don't kill them, or hit them, or resort to violence in any way. If I don't feel the same as another person, I might try to understand why they feel that way. After I do that, if we still don't agree, we can easily agree to disagree.> I was pbc'ed for studying these notions on the Faith Board. Have I been civil enough this time?
>
I didn't pbc you. You'd have to check with Dr. Bob...> Ardie
Ardie?
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 25, 2004, at 2:15:43
In reply to Re: How are you doing........? » Dinah, posted by 64Bowtie on February 24, 2004, at 21:19:36
> I was pbc'ed for studying these notions on the Faith Board. Have I been civil enough this time?
I replied over at PBA:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040112/msgs/317412.html
Bob
Posted by Dinah on February 28, 2004, at 20:21:39
In reply to Well, I suggested we try challenging again, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 12:08:44
Which I admittedly am not sure is what he actually meant, because he can be really be confusing sometimes. But I think he doesn't want to take me up on my offer in general. He said that he thinks the main value of my twice weekly sessions is consistent support and that it's ok to come in when I'm feeling good. I don't have to use therapy to make me feel less good (i.e. work harder while I'm feeling good). Something like that.
He said that I can take responsibility for my therapy by asking him to challenge me on a particular issue if I think I need to be challenged. Not going to happen. If I know I need challenging in a particular area, I'll work on it myself. Don't need him for that.
So, I'm not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand, I don't really like to be challenged. But on the other hand, it doesn't speak highly of his belief in my strength to withstand challenges. Unless I've totally misunderstood him, which is entirely possible since sometimes the man is entirely incomprehensible.
So, anyway. I can live with it. And I'm not going to bring it up again. Not worth it.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.