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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on February 7, 2004, at 11:38:18
I mean orgasms are nice and all, but I don't understand the idea of desiring one particular person. Particularly to the point of risking family and career and so many important things just to get naked and have a few minutes or hours or whatever of friction.
Orgasms are so easy to come by! And great ones too. And you don't need to rely on anyone else to get them.
The last person (other than my husband of course, but I've known him for over twenty years so that's not a new thing) I remember feeling sexually attracted to was a college professor about twenty years ago. He wasn't really attractive, but he was smart as all get out, with a tongue like a rapier, and full of cocky energy. OK, I tingled in his classes. But I wouldn't have wanted to actually have physical contact for anything. From the things he let drop, I'd have had no idea where he'd *been*. Eeeuwww. It was fun to fantasize about him, but that's as far as it went.
Before that there was maybe one guy in college with nice sensitive long fingers, and my now husband.
Other than that, I'm aroused mainly by people on celluloid images.
So I just don't get it *at all*. I am all too aware of that when I'm reading this board, and I was really aware of it yesterday when discussing it with my therapist. Sexual attraction clouds the judgement? Does it really? Why? When I was sexually attracted to my professor I viewed it with pleasure and interest, but I didn't lose my judgement a bit. And got an A in his class to boot. And I will admit that the spice of sexual attraction caused me to pay a bit closer attention in class and not daydream as much. But clouded judgement? Why?
Why is the feeling of sexual attraction any more than just a physiological response, like hunger. I get the physiological response a lot more when I'm hypomanic or really anxious than I do in response to *any* person or sexual idea. And I view it rather clinically.
What am I not understanding? And why? Is it a physical defect or a psychological one?
Posted by tabitha on February 7, 2004, at 12:14:32
In reply to I think I don't understand sex *at all*, posted by Dinah on February 7, 2004, at 11:38:18
> Is it a physical defect or a psychological one?
Or maybe you're just highly evolved... you see it for what it is.. a few minutes of friction (that description is going to stick in my mind)
I'm not sure I get it either. I think it's the meaning we attach to the act, like if I have sex with person A it will mean I'm attractive, or that they love me, or it will make them mine, or I'll magically absorb some of their qualities, or something.
Posted by Elle2021 on February 7, 2004, at 12:21:14
In reply to I think I don't understand sex *at all*, posted by Dinah on February 7, 2004, at 11:38:18
Okay, I don't know if this applies to you, but sometimes children who have been sexually abused view sex in different terms than people who haven't been sexually abused.
> Orgasms are so easy to come by! And great ones too. And you don't need to rely on anyone else to get them.
Do you enjoy yourself more when sex is with your husband? Could this be part of the schizoid/schizotypal dx? The part where the person prefers solitary activities rather than the idea of activities with another person?
> The last person I remember feeling sexually attracted to was a college professor about twenty years ago.
*He wasn't really attractive, but he was smart as all get out,* with a tongue like a rapier, and full of cocky energy.I agree that intellectual men are much more attractive (even if they aren't particularly cute).
>Sexual attraction clouds the judgement? Does it really? Why?
I think some people *allow* sexual attraction to cloud their judgement. I don't. I can recognize that I'm attracted to someone without losing all sense of responsiblity.
>And I will admit that the spice of sexual attraction caused me to pay a bit closer attention in class
I giggled when I read this because I have to admit that in all the classes I have taken, where I was attracted to the teacher, I got really good grades and paid excellent attention... :)
>And I view it rather clinically.
I used to view it very clinically myself, but that was because I was too afraid to make an emotional attachment. Could that be what you are doing too?
> What am I not understanding? And why? Is it a physical defect or a psychological one?
I don't think it's a physical defect (you don't have problems "performing"). Maybe this is one of the posts that you should take to your therapist. I bet he can get to the crux of the matter, which I believe goes way deeper then just the act of sex itself.
Or...I could be totally off base here. You gotta let me know.
Elle
Posted by antigua on February 7, 2004, at 13:06:14
In reply to Re: I think I don't understand sex *at all* » Dinah, posted by Elle2021 on February 7, 2004, at 12:21:14
I think I agree with Elle. My view, opinion, feelings, whatever, about sex are distorted by sexual abuse. I'm not normal and never will be when it comes to sex. You seem to have a very healthy attitude toward it, which is just great. Everything you say sounds very reasonable. Let us know what your T says. (I must admit I'm having trouble thinking of your eunuch thinking sexual thoughts; I'm going to have to reevaluate my image!)
antigua
Posted by Dinah on February 7, 2004, at 13:18:56
In reply to Re: I think I don't understand sex *at all*, posted by tabitha on February 7, 2004, at 12:14:32
> > Is it a physical defect or a psychological one?
>
> Or maybe you're just highly evolved... you see it for what it is.. a few minutes of friction (that description is going to stick in my mind)Lol. Oh dear. I have a nasty habit of phrasing things so that they drain enjoyment. My husband hasn't gotten drunk since I said (back in college) that his drunk friends didn't get red like they did in the movies, they got pale, flaccid, and sweaty. Apparently he didn't like the concept of pale and flaccid. ;) I like the idea of highly evolved. :) You're good for me, Tabitha. You have a real talent for reframing.
>
> I'm not sure I get it either. I think it's the meaning we attach to the act, like if I have sex with person A it will mean I'm attractive, or that they love me, or it will make them mine, or I'll magically absorb some of their qualities, or something.I'm guessing there must be an overlay of some sort of meaning. Because arousal, buildup, and release are rather simple things in and of themselves... Pleasurable yes, but simple.
Posted by Dinah on February 7, 2004, at 13:19:24
In reply to Re: I think I don't understand sex *at all*, posted by Dinah on February 7, 2004, at 13:18:56
Posted by Dinah on February 7, 2004, at 13:23:17
In reply to Re: I think I don't understand sex *at all*, posted by antigua on February 7, 2004, at 13:06:14
> (I must admit I'm having trouble thinking of your eunuch thinking sexual thoughts; I'm going to have to reevaluate my image!)
> antiguaOoh, please don't. I'm trying to reinstate the eunuch view as hard as I can. At one point, his voice deepened a bit as he said "if you know what I mean" in relation to sexual arousal clouding judgement. I answered "G*d, I hope I don't." Now, I'm wiping my memory clear of that exchange by journalling it here, and I never want to remember it again!!!!
It's like when my mother told me how much she liked sex, and how she didn't get enough from my father. EEEEEEUUUUWWWWWWWWW. Too much information!! Too much information!!!!
Posted by Dinah on February 7, 2004, at 13:23:49
In reply to Re: I think I don't understand sex *at all*, posted by antigua on February 7, 2004, at 13:06:14
Posted by Dinah on February 7, 2004, at 13:35:54
In reply to Re: I think I don't understand sex *at all* » Dinah, posted by Elle2021 on February 7, 2004, at 12:21:14
> Okay, I don't know if this applies to you, but sometimes children who have been sexually abused view sex in different terms than people who haven't been sexually abused.
No, I wasn't sexually abused. All my symptoms fit, but I just wasn't.
>
> > Orgasms are so easy to come by! And great ones too. And you don't need to rely on anyone else to get them.
>
> Do you enjoy yourself more when sex is with your husband? Could this be part of the schizoid/schizotypal dx? The part where the person prefers solitary activities rather than the idea of activities with another person?Well, I don't like to be touched, although I don't really mind touching. So I consider myself solosexual. It's not that I prefer *all* my activities to be solitary (tho I do prefer a lot of them to be). And yes, I do think that is one of the things they checked off when they came up with the diagnosis, although I prefer to think of it as traits.
>
> >And I will admit that the spice of sexual attraction caused me to pay a bit closer attention in class
>
> I giggled when I read this because I have to admit that in all the classes I have taken, where I was attracted to the teacher, I got really good grades and paid excellent attention... :)Me too. :) And I did find a lot of my male teachers (and perhaps one or two of my female teachers) attractive. Just not sexually attractive, except for this one.
>
> >And I view it rather clinically.
>
> I used to view it very clinically myself, but that was because I was too afraid to make an emotional attachment. Could that be what you are doing too?I don't think so.... I can be emotionally attached without sexual attraction.
>
> > What am I not understanding? And why? Is it a physical defect or a psychological one?
>
> I don't think it's a physical defect (you don't have problems "performing"). Maybe this is one of the posts that you should take to your therapist. I bet he can get to the crux of the matter, which I believe goes way deeper then just the act of sex itself.
>
We've had more than a few conversations about sex. Mainly about other layers of my sexual dysfunction though, not this one. I know what he'd say if I said I didn't understand desire. He'd say "I know you don't" in a compassionate tone, and wouldn't really consider it worth exploring because it was just a given.
Posted by fallsfall on February 7, 2004, at 17:15:39
In reply to Re: I think I don't understand sex *at all* » Elle2021, posted by Dinah on February 7, 2004, at 13:35:54
I don't get it either. And I wasn't sexually abused.
There was one amazing hug from a date on a sidewalk which gave me physical feelings I had never felt before. So, maybe I just haven't figured it out yet (at 47...).
I certainly wouldn't risk anything or pay anything or deprive myself of anything for sex. Who cares?
Posted by Racer on February 7, 2004, at 18:33:26
In reply to I think I don't understand sex *at all*, posted by Dinah on February 7, 2004, at 11:38:18
This is one of those things that can get me all tied up into sentences that run on forever without ever untwisting themselves into sense and usually contain no punctuation...
OK, now that I've had some fun, here are a few thoughts about it from someone who does get quite clouded by desire. First off, I was sexually abused and later raped by an acquaintance, so I do fit into the whole set of behaviors associated with those experiences. That's just to add a little context.
Hm, I think someone's already said this, but sex isn't always just sex. This being one of my "issues" I can tell you that for me it's usually about control, and a desire to be protected. Classic good looks are a lot less important than my perception that this would be A Good Protector. Does that make any sense? I'm not saying that I go after men intending to be a parasite and have them bring me peeled grapes on a platter, just that I tend to be attracted to men I perceive as being able to provide me with a feeling of safety.
Also, there's the responsibility part. Whether this has to do with my fears of commitment or the lack of control and thus responsibility I experienced as a child, I can't say. All I can say is that, when I've strayed outside a relationship, it's usually included some element of "I'm being irresponsible, I'm risking the good solid reality of my relationship, and I'm just sinking into it because it's here, it's now, and it feels good." And yes, I have been unfaithful in several exclusive relationships in the past, so I'm speaking from experience.
Last, but not least, here's a funny for you that might have some truth to it: I heard a stand up comic say once, "If you've seen one woman naked, you want to see them *all* naked..." Yeah, caveman humor, but I think that's part of it for me. I just sometimes want to try all of them out, see if it feels good. (Also, sex for me is still best with just a little tension. First times are better than tenth times, so...)
Hope that helps.
Posted by DaisyM on February 7, 2004, at 19:18:36
In reply to I think I don't understand sex *at all*, posted by Dinah on February 7, 2004, at 11:38:18
Well the nuns would tell us that God made us (girls) susceptible to the "power" of seduction so that we would insure the survival of the species. Therefore, we must always be on our guard against this particular power. At least we weren't taught that sex is a tool of the devil!
I'm no expert, having very limited experience, but I think for those of us with trust issues, it is more about an ultimate connection. Then there are the "duty" parts, etc. etc.
Sorry, realize as I type how not helpful around this I am. I have the great speech I've given my boys about respecting women, being gentle, giving love with their minds as much and as often as with their bodies...and waiting until they are really ready (like when they are 35).
Posted by Dinah on February 7, 2004, at 21:12:19
In reply to Weeellll........ » Dinah, posted by Racer on February 7, 2004, at 18:33:26
Maybe you have to have experienced it to understand it. And as I'm in my forties, I'm guessing I'm never going to experience it.
There's some switch in my brain that just isn't on or something. Or maybe it's my unpleasant tendency to isolate body sensations from their related thoughts.
I don't know whether I'm happy or sad about that. Happy I think....
Posted by Dinah on February 7, 2004, at 21:40:02
In reply to Re: I think I don't understand sex *at all*, posted by DaisyM on February 7, 2004, at 19:18:36
lol.
I think 35 and married sounds right. Though I'd consider 25 or 26 and married if he's just getting a bachelors degree.
Are you having luck with your boys? Does the message sink in?
Posted by Dinah on February 7, 2004, at 22:47:47
In reply to Re: I think I don't understand sex *at all* » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on February 7, 2004, at 17:15:39
I think that not having any sexual release at all would be a very big deal for me. I wasn't able to have orgasms for four years on Luvox, and while I didn't care much at the time, I wouldn't want to go back to that.
But as for sex with any particular person, I'm with you. Just maybe I feel a little bit like I'm missing something... But I'm not sure whether I'm missing something pleasurable or something painful. I don't grasp it well enough to be able to tell.
Posted by Fallen4myT on February 8, 2004, at 0:32:16
In reply to Re: I think I don't understand sex *at all* » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on February 7, 2004, at 22:47:47
I am not sure I totally understand your post but I will add my 2 cents :) I LOVE sex I can do it with someone I have no love for and do it with someone I love and it feels good. I should by all rights and theory not like sex much or too much case I am a rape survivor and incest survivor. I would not risk a GOOD relationship just for sex but would for sex with someone I was in love with. I wonder if I make any sense here ..its late but I think my point is it doesnt cloud judgement the clouding is not from a sex crazy stupor but from poor boundaries perhaps?
Posted by zeugma on February 8, 2004, at 20:21:49
In reply to Re: I think I don't understand sex *at all* » Dinah, posted by Fallen4myT on February 8, 2004, at 0:32:16
I seem to be the only male responding to this topic... I have a LOT of serious issues around sex, chiefly around being at once obsessed with sex yet seriously inhibited about its expression. When I was in a relationship years ago (they have been few and far between) I would have sex ALL the time, I mean constantly. With one person. I lost my inhibitions with this one person because we had been through so much together (we both had major issues with depression, she had many traumas and so have I, and we had gone through a disastrously *failed* romance together before getting together the second time), and I was much happier- it was the only period in my life that I would consider myself *in remission* from depression.
Being able to express myself sexually definitely helped my depression. After breaking up with her I went many years without a relationship, and the only person i ever had sex with (infrequently) was her. We did this when she was between relationships. I saw this as somewhat pathological on my part, i.e., i needed to have sex, but I was unable to do anything about this except with a person i already knew was receptive to me. part of this is my Avoidant Personality disorder- I am afraid to make a move unless sure of not being rejected. I was not on meds during the time I was with her, not because I wasn't depressed (though like i said, it was the nearest to remission I had ever been) but because the AD's and ADD meds of the era (Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Ritalin, Cylert) were not tolerable. Now I am on a lot of meds and I feel like the 'ice' is breaking up inside my head. My sex drive is also beginning to increase. I always had a lot of sexual fantasies, but also a lot of reasons why I couldnt'pursue them- I was too depressed, too broke, too ugly or physically undesirable for any girl to want me. So what happens when depression finally recedes enough to have to confront them?
Just to end on another note: Understanding a person sexually is one of the most powerful things I have ever experienced. It seems like all the women I have been attracted to have complex issues with sex, and somehow this adds to the attraction for me, even when it caused relationship problems (for example my ex-girlfriend desiring an open relationship). My therapist was concerned that the woman I am currently interested in was acting in a 'sadistic' way towards me. Maybe she was (is), but the kinds of complications I am imagining in her head seem to arouse me- it's not just masochism on my part, I suppose it's because i feel damaged myself and so A) i don't deserve to be treated well and B) complications are so much more interesting than simplicities.
This is the end of the thread.
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