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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by badhaircut on January 23, 2004, at 8:45:12
In reply to Quitting School, posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 1:16:32
I quit college in my first year because of severe depression, but I didn't realize that my misery had an explanation or that anyone else experienced it too. I thought I was just some kind of super-defective freak.
Then I went back, dropped out again for years, went back, still had problems and graduated. It was only 10 years altogether!
I think I know what pointers I'd give myself back then (or my unfortunate clone now), but...
I don't want to ask for too much personal data, but can I ask how far along you are? Do you live on campus or with family? Do you have somebody in your corner -- like Burgess Meredith in 'Rocky' -- who says "You can do this, kid!"? (I didn't.)
-bhc
Posted by fallsfall on January 23, 2004, at 8:53:07
In reply to Quitting School, posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 1:16:32
Can you reduce your courseload without dropping out? That might give you enough breathing room to regain your motivation.
I like to say that I have a chronic illness that flares up from time to time. Well, when a chronic illness flares up, it really is reasonable to need some accomodation. The more you can keep things "normal", though, (meaning if you can make a small change rather than a large change) the better off you are.
Particularly if you are able to pretty much keep your grades up at this point, you wouldn't want to quit. You have too much invested already. And finishing your degree is too important a goal to give up because you are apathetic.
So, maybe just try to make it more livable?
I could be all wet - if so, you can happily disregard everything I've said... I haven't kept up on how everyone is feeling on the board (even though I read faithfully)...
Posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2004, at 11:15:42
In reply to Re: Quitting School » Elle2021, posted by fallsfall on January 23, 2004, at 8:53:07
Elle,
My depression seems to always be its worst in school. Every time I ever have gone to school it has flared up and gotten in the way of completing. What I am working on my therapy is how to cope with extreme sensitivity to rejection and criticism. Being in school just sets me up for that as you are always being graded and assessed. My therapist likened it to always being sunburned. With this metaphor, someone may reach out for what they think is a helpful, comforting touch, but to me it feels painful. Ouch, don't touch me! It could hurt. So, I've been trying to learn to have psychological "sunscreen" to try not to be so touchy. I also need to find some "psychological aloe gel" to soothe the pain.I know this is a weird metaphor, but somehow it works for me. If you follow the metaphor, then being in school for me is like living in a tanning bed, or in the tropics without much shelter.
I share this because of the similarities in getting depressed over school. I wonder if some of this is similar for you?
But either way, I really feel for you, because it's so frustrating to want to do something and yet have that something trigger you everytime.
Take care and take your time with it,
gg
Posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 12:04:08
In reply to Quitting School, posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 1:16:32
Well,
I started college in the fall right after I graduated from highschool (at that time I had moved out and was living with a roommate). I went for a quarter, and was depressed throughout the entire time. After that quarter was over, there was a 1 month break inbetwixt the next quarter. I had registered for classes for the next one, but during the break, I actually did get delusional for the first time ever. That's when I started seeing a psychiatrist. Then I took about a year and a half off of school, and moved home with my parents again. I went back to school for two quarters. I only took 6 credits each quarter, and I didn't get depressed at all. Which was really nice, except for the fact that if I continued to take only 6 credits each quarter it's going to take forever to graduate. Anyway, I went Spring and Summer, and then took fall off (not because of depression, I take fall of instead of summer, weird I know). Now I am back, it's winter quarter and I'm taking 15 credits, and here, that is considered *more* then full time. I think when I signed up for classes I was taking Oxycodone, and I think that had a lot to do with me signing up for all these classes. Anyway, I'm going through yet another depressive episode that flared up just this past week. It's bad. I literally have no motivation to do any assigned work, I just sit here and cry. Anyway, I'm 21 now, and still not graduated. I do NOT want to drop out again. I have an app. with my therapist today, maybe she can help. I don't know.
Elle
Posted by Poet on January 23, 2004, at 12:17:20
In reply to Quitting School, posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 1:16:32
Elle,
I made it through college in four years, while working 20-30 hours a week (paid my own way.) In looking back, taking less classes per semester and taking more time to graduate might have been academically and psychologically better for me.
Last year I completed four classes in three semesters for a certificate in professional writing from an accredited college, and I never felt overwhelmed, even working fulltime.
I offer any help I can for you to be able to stick it out and get that degree. Without becoming bulimic, which unfortunately was a major part of my college curriculum. These days it's really in control, now if I could just get depression and anxiety and...
Poet
Posted by All Done on January 23, 2004, at 12:20:23
In reply to Badhaircut, Gardengirl, Fallsfall, posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 12:04:08
> Well,
> I started college in the fall right after I graduated from highschool (at that time I had moved out and was living with a roommate). I went for a quarter, and was depressed throughout the entire time. After that quarter was over, there was a 1 month break inbetwixt the next quarter. I had registered for classes for the next one, but during the break, I actually did get delusional for the first time ever. That's when I started seeing a psychiatrist. Then I took about a year and a half off of school, and moved home with my parents again. I went back to school for two quarters. I only took 6 credits each quarter, and I didn't get depressed at all. Which was really nice, except for the fact that if I continued to take only 6 credits each quarter it's going to take forever to graduate. Anyway, I went Spring and Summer, and then took fall off (not because of depression, I take fall of instead of summer, weird I know). Now I am back, it's winter quarter and I'm taking 15 credits, and here, that is considered *more* then full time. I think when I signed up for classes I was taking Oxycodone, and I think that had a lot to do with me signing up for all these classes. Anyway, I'm going through yet another depressive episode that flared up just this past week. It's bad. I literally have no motivation to do any assigned work, I just sit here and cry. Anyway, I'm 21 now, and still not graduated. I do NOT want to drop out again. I have an app. with my therapist today, maybe she can help. I don't know.
> ElleElle,
At age 21 I had graduated with a B.S. in Accounting, had moved out of my parents' house, and got married. Ten years later, I hate my "chosen" profession, owe a lot of money that I could have saved if I'd lived at home a bit longer, and I divorced the guy I married. I'm still working on getting everything back on track.
Take your time. It's okay to slow down if you need to. You might learn a lot of good stuff about yourself if you make space for a little breathing room.
Take care,
All Done
Posted by DaisyM on January 23, 2004, at 13:44:30
In reply to Quitting School, posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 1:16:32
One of the ways I get things done when I'm really down is I break them into small pieces...I'm going to write a proposal today. I'm doing an assessment report tomorrow, etc. I'm a list person but when the list is really really long it can be scary.
There is a great time management book called "Eat That Frog". It basically encourages you to set things up to do the ugliest, hardest thing first, because all the little things really don't matter. I think it is similar to Fallsfall's system of "Have To" etc.. Somehow having an organizational system makes your whole life seem managable, at least for me.
Only do what you have to do to pass, for now. Your grades say nothing about who YOU are and employers really don't care what kind of grades you made unless they are the very top and/or you need to get into Grad school.
I hope you can find a way to keep going. Ultimately it will be worth the struggle.
FYI -- I agree with taking your time. I finished in 3 1/2 yrs., married my Junior year and had a baby slighly less than 1 1/2 yrs after graduation. (That baby is now at CAL-BERK). 10 yrs later I was back in grad school, working nights with 3 kids, studying something completely different. I often wonder now why I was in such a hurry back then. Think of it this way -- If you finish at age 30 and "start" your "real" career, you still have 30 - 40 years to work before retirement -- Perspective iS everything!
Posted by Karen_kay on January 23, 2004, at 13:44:38
In reply to Badhaircut, Gardengirl, Fallsfall, posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 12:04:08
Elle,
I'm 24 (or 25, AGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!What is with my memory??? Shouldn't it be getting better???) I'm still working on my BA. I've had to take quite a few breaks. I waited a few years before starting school, got my AA, had to sit out again, and now am back at it, working on BA. The best thing to do is work on what you can. I try to set time aside every night to work on homework. The profs say an hour per class, per night (cynical laugh here!). But, last night when I was upset I worked on my German homework for 4 hours (Huh??). Do what you have to, then add on what you can. Also, make sure you take breaks when you are working on something rough. Remember the feeling you get when you complete a task? It's great! Keep that in mind as well. If you are feeling overworked, check into dropping a class or two. There's no harm in taking your time to complete your degree. Lord knows it's taken me a long time to get here. I take between 12 and 16 credit hours, but I have to for my scholarship. I'd take 5 if I could get away with it :)
If you are feeling overworked, look into dropping a class. And don't skip class. I'm the Queen of Truancy. But, I can't do it this semester. :( Much of my grade depends on attendence. Darn the luck. I guess the profs think it's important to be there? Maybe we can be buddies, to make sure we both go to class or something. We can help eachother through.
Posted by badhaircut on January 23, 2004, at 13:51:22
In reply to Badhaircut, Gardengirl, Fallsfall, posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 12:04:08
> I have an app. with my therapist today, maybe she can help. I don't know.
I'll be interested to know what she says, if you can share.
It sounds like you're at a quarter-system school. I went to one, too. It does mean that there's fewer weeks that you have to hang on before you can lock away credit for a class, but those 10-week courses can really pile the work on thick.
Some general advice from me to depressed college students (not necessarily applying to you) would be:
1. Dropping out, even more than once, is NOT the end of the world. It is not shameful, weak or evil, even if significant people disapprove of it. It does not have to be permanent. Many prominent, successful professionals dropped out and returned to school. (I used to have a list! I'll look for it.) If someone drops out, they can look at it as a proactive strategy, not a defeat.
2. That said, I believe it is usually better (not always, but usually) to stay in school. We all do better when we keep active. Momentum is easier to maintain than to achieve (that's why it's momentum). Like Woody Allen says, 90% of life is just showing up.It sounds like you're committed to staying in and want tips on how. The main one I would offer to myself back then is, "Lower your standards."
I think it's often better to lower one's standards than to take a lighter load. (Wow, that's an over-general statement!) You don't have to be a perfectionist to benefit from *hypothetically* lowering performance pressures. I think I would've been more productive if I'd given myself permission to do what I thought would be crappy, half-*ss work, but turn it in. It's amazing that as soon as someone can say, "I may be a lousy student (or a rotten person or whatever), but I can still go to class this morning," they can often feel a lot better and do better work.
Just personal observations. Like fallsfall said, I may be all wet, too.
-bhc
Posted by metalflipflop on January 23, 2004, at 17:36:09
In reply to Re: Quitting School » Elle2021, posted by badhaircut on January 23, 2004, at 8:45:12
dear elle,
i know what you mean about all this. i am 21, a junior at cornell, and trying my damndest to just graudate from this place. the place where i've gotten to is (and this is after taking only two classes last semester and starting a full load on monday): who cares about grades? i'm going to do the work, even if sometimes it's crappy. i am NOT, however, going to let it take over my life and the emotional journey i have been on in therapy. that part is much more important to me and, i think, for my future happiness.
i don't want to take more time off either (so far one year), b/c after 6 months of not being in school, a mountain of student loans will start accruing interest. and ahem--i'm studying psychology--and not for the money, for sure. plus, i can see the end in sight. and you know, i don't hate the school life. i hate the pressure i have put on myself in the past. i am taking interesting classes and doing my own thing outside of them. rather liberating for me, actually. rather necessary, as i think one more horrible depression would be the end of me.
so i think it's worth it stay in, barring you're like i was and want to just tear your hair out looking at another textbook. it can be a job--8 hours a day and that's it, put it away for some r 'n r. if that's not enough time to do well, it's probably enough time for a C, i'd wager. life's too short and there are too many options to worry yourself down. ugh. this moment now will never happen again.
Good Luck! (i'll take some for myself too)
Liz
Posted by KathrynLex on January 23, 2004, at 18:04:03
In reply to Re: Quitting School, posted by metalflipflop on January 23, 2004, at 17:36:09
Hi Elle,
School can be very difficult, to pile depression on the top of that is even harder. Definately take your time. Cut back your hours so you have time to enjoy your friends or activities that don't feel like work. That way you won't become too overwhelmed.
Also, if your college offers on-line courses, I highly recommend them. They often times require less work and aren't as daunting as regular courses, but you still get the same amount of credit. If you work, see if you can get college credit for your job. I did, and it was the easiest 3 credit hours I ever got. Little things like that can lift some of the burden.
I hope your doc had several useful suggestions for you. Best of luck in finishing your degree!
K.
Posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 19:19:39
In reply to Re: Quitting School, posted by KathrynLex on January 23, 2004, at 18:04:03
Hi all,
Thanks for all the advice and support. I think you guys gave me some really great advice, and I'm really appreciative. I talked to my therapist about it, and she didn't really have much to say about it. I guess I didn't push the conversation enough. I should have. But, after seeing her, I feel better about things in general. Someone suggested me lowering my expectations. I did try to do that, but I really freak out when I get less than an A. I make myself try to get at least a B in every class. I do plan on going to graduate school at USC, but if I don't keep my grades up then I can kiss that idea goodbye. Maybe that isn't a realistic idea anyway. I don't know. I don't really want to think about it right now. Thanks you guys, I really, sincerely appreciate all the support.
Elle
Posted by Medusa on January 24, 2004, at 9:58:42
In reply to Quitting School, posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 1:16:32
Elle, could it be that there's a family reason for you to be feeling so lousy when you're in school?
This was the case with me. Although both parents attended college, they "dropped out" of their own family's material/professional/academic/success systems before I was born. I "rebelled" by attending a much higher level college than either of my parents did. In public, they were very proud of me (my "success" justified a lot of their bizarre approaches to child-rearing, home-schooling etc) but when it was just me around, they made it clear that I was NOT acceptable.
I got through school, somehow, partly with the carrot of knowing I couldn't kill myself as long as I was in school or they'd think I hadn't been able to handle the academic load (the trouble was NOT school). Eventually I figured out that they'd +never+ look at themselves as an explanation if I topped myself.
Not sure if this has anything at all to do with your situation ... if you think it might, and you want help finding a therapist in your area who specialises in this kind of stuff, Dinah has my e-mail address.
Posted by gardenergirl on January 24, 2004, at 10:17:29
In reply to what are your family's ideas about education?, posted by Medusa on January 24, 2004, at 9:58:42
Medusa,
Your post really made me think. I have been really hurt by my family's lack of support for my education. I am pursusing a doctorate, and currently am the only one in the family with a Master's. My dad dropped out of college, mostly due to alcoholism but he would never admit that. My brother never finished high school. Both seem quite intimidated about my own education. I get so frustrated and hurt by their smarmy and snide attempts to make themselves feel superior. My education and chosen field really has nothing to do with them, and I don't know why it seems so threatening. AAARGHHH!Regards,
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on January 24, 2004, at 10:18:39
In reply to Re: Quitting School, posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 19:19:39
Elle, I think I forgot to mention that I dropped out of undergrad after 3 semesters and went to work full time. Ironically, it was because I did not want to be in school as long as it would take to become a doctor. Look at me now! I'm in my thirties, and am working on what some could consider my third career. Some may view this as scattered, and many at times have seemed to judge me for being a "drop-out", but I view my educational choices as a long and winding path. It has really shaped who I am now, (or perhaps vice versa???).
What I am rambling on and trying to say is this: who cares if you do not do things the "traditional way"? So what if it takes longer to graduate? Do what's best for you. We are all dynamic beings who change, grow, and adapt throughout our lives. I never thought I would become a psychologist, but at this point, it feels exactly right for me. Who knows if that will hold true when I am 60?
Specific advice time: Can you talk to your professors and give them some idea of what you are going through? Or perhaps have your T contact them. There's nothing wrong with having their support too. They may be able to adapt assignments or give you an incomplete to give you the time you need to get better.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Karen_kay on January 24, 2004, at 13:15:03
In reply to Re: Quitting School » Elle2021, posted by gardenergirl on January 24, 2004, at 10:18:39
Specific advice time: Can you talk to your professors and give them some idea of what you are going through? Or perhaps have your T contact them. There's nothing wrong with having their support too. They may be able to adapt assignments or give you an incomplete to give you the time you need to get better.
**I know that was the case with Bubba. I had a class that I was doing very well in, yet I was overmedicated near the end of the class. I finally had to suck it up and speak with my Prof. He needed a note from Bubba. I talked to Bubba, who had just recently started seeing me and provided him with some sort of satisfactory note. I still to this day don't know the details of the document, but I received an incomplete, was able to make up missed assignments, and later received an A. And that was the grade I would have gotten, had I not been overmedicated. If it comes down to it, have a talk with those who need to know the situation. It wasn't nearly as painful as I thought it was going to be.
Posted by Elle2021 on January 24, 2004, at 13:22:28
In reply to what are your family's ideas about education?, posted by Medusa on January 24, 2004, at 9:58:42
> Elle, could it be that there's a family reason for you to be feeling so lousy when you're in school?
Hmm, thats a good point. My mum would be happy if I never left the house again. She has her own anxiety troubles. Anytime I talk about going away to school, she ends the discussion by either walking away or telling me it's not going to happen or that it's in some way a bad idea on my part. She suggests that I go to this school that is 35 minutes from where I live. Now, granted, that would be convenient. But the thing is, I am capable of getting into a better school then what that school is. (I hope I'm making sense here). I don't want to just end up going there cause it's "convenient."
Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on January 24, 2004, at 13:25:39
In reply to Re: Quitting School » Elle2021, posted by gardenergirl on January 24, 2004, at 10:18:39
>Specific advice time: Can you talk to your professors and give them some idea of what you are going through? Or perhaps have your T contact them. There's nothing wrong with having their support too. They may be able to adapt assignments or give you an incomplete to give you the time you need to get better.
That could work with at least my psychology professor. I think she would understand whats going on with me. But I would be way to embarrassed to admit to the other ones that I'm seeing Burt and a T. Know what I mean. I'm glad to hear about your story though. It's comforting to know that someone who is now really successful (obviously you!) and is now going to be a great psychologist, dropped out of undergrad 3x! :)
Elle
Posted by Catmom on January 24, 2004, at 23:33:01
In reply to Re: Quitting School » gardenergirl, posted by Elle2021 on January 24, 2004, at 13:25:39
One thing you could investigate is whether or not your school has a disability office. Mine does. They send out to the professor a very discreet notice about how you may need extra time to do work, or whatever you think might help you to get through.
Best of luck!
Posted by Elle2021 on January 25, 2004, at 0:43:56
In reply to Re: Quitting School ELLE 2021, posted by Catmom on January 24, 2004, at 23:33:01
> One thing you could investigate is whether or not your school has a disability office. Mine does. They send out to the professor a very discreet notice about how you may need extra time to do work, or whatever you think might help you to get through.
I hadn't thought about that. You mean that the disablility office could send out a note to my professors that says I'm experiencing some personal difficulties and am going to need extra time for assignments? That would be ideal. It would be discreet, which is number one for me. Right now, I just realized I have yet another paper due on Monday that I haven't started. I feel really depressed and I'm starting to cry. Oh I hate it when I get like this. Thanks for the support and help.
Elle
Posted by DaisyM on January 25, 2004, at 14:12:41
In reply to Re: Quitting School ELLE 2021 » Catmom, posted by Elle2021 on January 25, 2004, at 0:43:56
I teach a University course (at night) and get notes from the disability office all the time. These are confidential and I accomodate students.
I am also open to any student seeing me privately or sending me emails to let me know what is going on. I would hate to think that I could help someone but they were afraid to ask me.
Please, go talk to them. They will help you.
Posted by Medusa on January 25, 2004, at 15:24:05
In reply to family's ideas about education?Medusa, posted by gardenergirl on January 24, 2004, at 10:17:29
> Both seem quite intimidated about my own education. I get so frustrated and hurt by their smarmy and snide attempts to make themselves feel superior.
>See if you can get a copy of Mary H. Jacobsen's book _Hand Me Down Dreams: How Families Influence Our Career Paths and How We Can Reclaim Them_.
Here's the amazon link - not to be doctored or have affiliate code added or otherwise edited by moderator or anybody:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/060980264X
The appendices have exercises that can seriously wipe you out if you have issues with this stuff. I bought the book probably five years ago, and am just now dealing with the subject, with help of this family systems therapy I'm doing. (They didn't recommend the book - we got to this topic, and I remembered I had the book and the lists of questions perfectly match what I'm working on.) It's hard. The clarity is brutal ... but is giving me hope.
For me, these issues are at the core of much of my depression. Depression (and all related ick) is such a clean and tidy punishment for my daring to push the limits of the system.
Posted by Elle2021 on January 26, 2004, at 0:07:28
In reply to Re: Quitting School » Elle2021, posted by DaisyM on January 25, 2004, at 14:12:41
My school does have a disability office, but what should I say to them? I need to convey the following:
1. I'm go through bouts where I am serverly depressed.
2. Thats the reason my work quality has plummeted, and also the reason that I can seem to get assignments done on time.
I know this should be easy but I just can't think straight right now. I'm in the midst of trying to write an essay for my Lit. class and I just can't even remember half the things that were discussed in class. Somebody help.
Elle
Posted by gardenergirl on January 26, 2004, at 5:49:27
In reply to Re: Quitting School ELLE 2021, posted by Catmom on January 24, 2004, at 23:33:01
> One thing you could investigate is whether or not your school has a disability office. Mine does. They send out to the professor a very discreet notice about how you may need extra time to do work, or whatever you think might help you to get through.
>Excellent idea! Any note to a prof. does not need to say much, IMO. Last year I had to back out of a paid committment when my depression was at its worst. I asked the grad. office if they could pro-rate my pay based on the time I had put in. They required a note from my doc., which just said "I've advised _____ to decrease her activity." The grad. office ended up giving me all the pay, even though I only worked half the semester!!! More than I even asked for. No questions asked.
Hopefully, your school has a similar attitude. I agree, Elle, that the psych. prof. should be understanding, but think about giving the others a chance, too.
Take care,
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on January 26, 2004, at 5:52:57
In reply to book rec for Elle and » gardenergirl, posted by Medusa on January 25, 2004, at 15:24:05
Thanks, I'll look for that book. Sounds interesting. Some good news, though. My brother recently called me the night before my clinical competency exam to wish me luck and to tell me (bad) jokes to take my mind off of anxiety. There's hope for us all!
Take care,
gg
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