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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by tabitha on November 26, 2003, at 3:18:24
In reply to Jealousy in Psychotherapy, posted by Miss Honeychurch on November 25, 2003, at 14:26:39
It's worth talking about. You can tell him you were hurt by the comment, and explain why. It's an opportunity to explore your feelings about appearance and compliments about appearance, and also to clear the air with him. If you want to get extra mileage out of it, you could also tell him how reluctant you were to mention it, and explore the reasons for that.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on November 26, 2003, at 7:33:42
In reply to Re: Jealousy in Psychotherapy, posted by tabitha on November 26, 2003, at 3:18:24
Well, my appointment is at 1 pm today (EST), so we'll see if I have the courage to bring this up.
Karen, he compliments me all the time as a person, etc. I'm fairly certain though that he really doesn't want to get into the physical stuff. My main complaint is that the floozy girlfriend really is an awful person on the inside, she just happens to be pretty. It kills me that I have been seeing him for almost 5 months, he knows me fairly well, and I would KILL for any sort of physical compliment from him. And this girl, whom he does not know, gets one right away. Plus, it sort of now set a standard in my mind about what he finds attractive. The floozy is over 6 feet, blond hair, blue eyes, slender. I'm 5'9, auburn hair, hazel eyes, and slightly overweight (but I have nice curves!). So I guess now I figure if he finds the floozy attractive, he certainly doesn't find me pretty. And what we're working on now is the old "Who cares what others think" attitude, so I think he would PURPOSEFULLY withhold a physical compliment just on that reason alone.
And then I think, well, he just made an off hand remark, we're all human. I'll post an update later this afternoon. Thanks for all of your advice everybody. I must warn you all though, I am a total coward and hate confrontation and making anyone feel uncomfortable.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on November 26, 2003, at 9:15:40
In reply to Jealousy in Psychotherapy, posted by Miss Honeychurch on November 25, 2003, at 14:26:39
> I showed him a group photograph of my father, stepmother,
Upon declaring my stepmother very hard to look at, he said "But who is that person to her left? She's really good looking."
---------That's really weird, if you ask me. Therapists should not be weighing in on standards of beauty, good or bad. Their opinions just aren't germaine to the process. Do you think he was trying to test you in some way? Maybe just trying to be conversational about the object you brought him to evaluate? Otherwise, I'd be kinda suspect.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on November 26, 2003, at 9:40:42
In reply to Re: Jealousy in Psychotherapy » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Eddie Sylvano on November 26, 2003, at 9:15:40
Eddie, I'm not sure if he was testing me. I feel he does test me though a lot of times.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on November 26, 2003, at 11:09:39
In reply to One more thing, posted by Karen_kay on November 25, 2003, at 20:56:58
> He knows you have self-esteem issues, right? Does he do things to build your self esteem? Such as comment on your value as a human being, tell you that you are a good person, ect? I understand that some people may see it as innappropriate to make comments about your physical beauty, but he should be helping to raise your self esteem, if you have a problem in that area. One other thing that I thought about....I would be offended if I were in your position as well. Insulted rather. I would bring it to his attention. Lay it all out on the table. Just take a big breathe and say, "Look it, I've been coming in here for _ weeks, months, years and you've never once made a nice comment about me. All of the sudden I show you a picture of my brother's floozy girlfriend and you say she's really good looking. I found that insulting! What do you have to say for yourself?" Say it! What is the worst that can happen? Tell him how you feel!! You can do it!
KAren,
I have printed this out and will perhaps make an attempt to confront him on this in your very direct and eloquent way! I wish had your "balls" as it were!
Posted by Karen_kay on November 26, 2003, at 12:33:25
In reply to Re: One more thing (Karen Kay), posted by Miss Honeychurch on November 26, 2003, at 11:09:39
Just take a big breathe and say, "Look it, I've been coming in here for _ weeks, months, years and you've never once made a nice comment about me. All of the sudden I show you a picture of my brother's floozy girlfriend and you say she's really good looking. I found that insulting! What do you have to say for yourself?"
> KAren,
>
> I have printed this out and will perhaps make an attempt to confront him on this in your very direct and eloquent way! I wish had your "balls" as it were!
Oh hun... I don't know if I'm proud or shocked. My directness or "mouth" as I call it does tend to get me into trouble, but never with my therapist. I tend to think I use my "balls" as a cowardly way of avoiding what I really need
to be talking about though. But, if someone upsets me, I don't let it slide. You shouldn't either. Stick up for yourself. Especially when it comes to your therapist. Don't let him get away with that. I'm proud of you for making an effort of bringing it up. That takes courage!
Posted by joslynn on November 26, 2003, at 13:26:31
In reply to Re: One more thing (Karen Kay), posted by Karen_kay on November 26, 2003, at 12:33:25
It could be that he never complimented your physical appearance because he doesn't do that with anyone? I think I remember reading somewhere that therapists should avoid paying a lot of physical compliments to patients of the opposite sex. I forget where I read that though.
But that doesn't excuse the dumb comment about the other woman! I would feel like he stepped out of therapist mode into guy-checking-out-women mode. Yuck. I would also be disappointed that his tastes were so typical and mainstream, when he has an auburn beauty such as yourself sitting right in front of him!
I don't think it's a dealbreaker though. But I would bring it up, maybe next time you bring in a photo of whatever, say, oh by the way, if you see an attractive woman, you don't need to share it with me like you did last time. That hurt my feelings because the person you found physically attractive is actually not atttractive inside. (or whatever, in your words of course)
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on November 26, 2003, at 17:19:34
In reply to Jealousy in Psychotherapy, posted by Miss Honeychurch on November 25, 2003, at 14:26:39
So I did manage to broach the subject, but of course only at the last minute when I knew we couldn't spend any time on it. I am such a freaking coward! Anyway, I said very meekly and mildly that it had bothered me all week that he complimented the floozy without knowing what a monster she is on the inside and I felt neglected since he has never paid me a physical compliment.
And then I turned 12 and turned bright red and looked at the floor.
He apologized and said quite frankly that he didn't remember the comment, but that he was sorry that it hurt my feelings and that he shouldn't have been so off hand about it. He also told me that it is his policy never to compliment any of his patients on their physical beauty, so I could fish for compliments til the cows come home, but he would never budge on that one!
So I feel better, thanks to all of you urging me to bring it up. I have to keep reminding myself that he is indeed human sometimes. Even therapists can say stupid stuff and not even realize it.
Posted by fallsfall on November 26, 2003, at 17:31:06
In reply to update, posted by Miss Honeychurch on November 26, 2003, at 17:19:34
Posted by Dinah on November 26, 2003, at 20:01:37
In reply to update, posted by Miss Honeychurch on November 26, 2003, at 17:19:34
>
> So I feel better, thanks to all of you urging me to bring it up.I'm glad you did. And it's positive reinforcement to bring things up the next time. :)
> I have to keep reminding myself that he is indeed human sometimes. Even therapists can say stupid stuff and not even realize it.
Ain't it the truth. I've decided to find it a charming sign of imperfection.
Posted by Elle2021 on December 1, 2003, at 8:20:24
In reply to update, posted by Miss Honeychurch on November 26, 2003, at 17:19:34
> And then I turned 12 and turned bright red and looked at the floor.
Sounds like me... :)
>He also told me that it is his policy never to compliment any of his patients on their physical beauty, so I could fish for compliments til the cows come home, but he would never budge on that one!
Did he say he felt it was unethical to give physical compliments? I'm wondering because of a situation I was in with my therapist a little while ago. I'm in college, and one of my older male professors had been hitting on me (fairly bluntly). I brought this up with my pdoc and he quite causually said, "Well, men like pretty girls." Like that was some kind of excuse for my teacher to put the moves on me. Then he just asked me "Why do you feel so depressed and miserable all the time, *your a pretty girl*, you have friends (but he made a note to mention these relationships with my friends are purely superficiail), etc." I have to say that I think throughout the entire time I have been seeing him, I have never got a compliment about whether he finds me intelligent. (Which was one reason I sorta didn't mind my professor's attention after that because he is always telling me how intelligent he thinks I am, I'm a sucker for being told things like that...) Oh well.
Elle
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 1, 2003, at 8:32:29
In reply to Re: update » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Elle2021 on December 1, 2003, at 8:20:24
He didn't exactly give a concrete reason as to why he never gives physical compliments, but he has very strict boundaries and I think that that sort of banter would violate them. He compliments me all the time on my creativity, artistry, etc. I think he thinks you get into slippery territory with physical compliments which I tend to agree with.
Posted by Dinah on December 1, 2003, at 8:33:35
In reply to Re: update » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Elle2021 on December 1, 2003, at 8:20:24
Ick, Elle. Your pdoc said those things? So he thinks it's ok for a professor to hit on a student as long as she's pretty. And he thinks pretty people shouldn't be depressed. (And he sounds a bit superficial.)
Plus he's cancelled sessions etc. He's a psychiatrist, right? Maybe he's good for prescribing medication, but perhaps you should look for another therapist.
Or maybe I'm confusing you with someone else.
Posted by judy1 on December 1, 2003, at 9:29:27
In reply to Re: update » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Elle2021 on December 1, 2003, at 8:20:24
I got that from my profs in college and from a male shrink who crossed boundaries. It was unethical for your therp to remark on your looks in the way that he did, and having learned the difficult way, please be really careful. Just the fact that it made you uncomfortable is enough to seek out another therp and tell him/her what was said to you. I'm in a no-tolerance zone for that behavior, and I worry that therps treating coeds who have those behaviors will and do cross the line.
take care of yourself, judy
Posted by Elle2021 on December 1, 2003, at 23:38:20
In reply to Re: update » Elle2021, posted by judy1 on December 1, 2003, at 9:29:27
Hi guys,
Thanks for the advice and input. If I thought my pdoc was going to cross a boundary with me, I would be outta there, trust me. It did irritate me that he thought that just cause he thought I was pretty, aslo meant that I should be happy. I think that was just his way of trying to get me to be more explanative (is that even a word?) on why I feel so depressed. He also told me that I should be extra-careful around that professor, and if the prof. started making me really uncomforatble that I needed to file a formal complaint. Sorry, I didn't mean to mislead anyone.
Elle
Posted by Dinah on December 2, 2003, at 8:39:54
In reply to Dinah and Judy 1, posted by Elle2021 on December 1, 2003, at 23:38:20
Sorry, Elle. I know how bad I feel when someone says something about my therapist (not my pdoc so much).
But haven't you been telling us he's been cancelling appointments? Or do I have you confused with someone else. And does he generally do therapy as well as prescribe meds? So few do anymore...
Posted by Elle2021 on December 2, 2003, at 9:01:11
In reply to Re: Pdocs » Elle2021, posted by Dinah on December 2, 2003, at 8:39:54
> Sorry, Elle. I know how bad I feel when someone says something about my therapist (not my pdoc so much).
It's okay, I was hoping no one would think I had been offended or anything. I wasn't. But you are right, to me at least, pdocs are kinda like parents. The child can complain up a storm about them, but if someone else does it...I guess I just see him as kind of a daddy to me. He really is a kind person and I know that a lot of the problems I have in therapy with him are my own fault. I feel awful complaining about him so much on here, and I can't blame him for wanting to cancel my appointments.
> But haven't you been telling us he's been cancelling appointments? Or do I have you confused with someone else.
No, it's me. He does keep cancelling them.
>And does he generally do therapy as well as prescribe meds? So few do anymore...
He does do therapy, he asked me when I first started seeing him whether I wanted to focus on meds or therapy or both. And I said meds, because at the time I wasn't ready to spill my lifestory with him. But I am now. I wish he would ask me again. You know what the funny thing is Dinah? Everytime I see another doctor, just a regular doctor, they wind up calling my pdoc to tell him that they are concerned about me. It's embarrassing. I don't even know what vibes I'm putting off to make them feel a call is necessary. Anyway, it's morning again, and I didn't sleep.
Elle
Posted by Dinah on December 2, 2003, at 9:11:44
In reply to Re: Pdocs » Dinah, posted by Elle2021 on December 2, 2003, at 9:01:11
Ugh. I'm sorry Elle.
It's not your fault you know. His cancelling is not your fault. It's feels safer to think it's your fault, but it's not. He's cancelling regularly with someone he knows is in trouble because other doctors are telling him so. You don't complain about him here nearly as much as I would under the circumstances. That's why I wasn't sure I had your story right.
Cancelling three months in a row is not ok. You probably need to see someone more regularly than once a month, not less. I understand that you're attached to your pdoc, and I wouldn't really ever ask you to move on from him. There's no reason you can't concentrate on meds with him.
But I do think you should look around for someone else for therapy. What he's doing with you is not standard practice, and it's not sufficient. I'm not trying to say something bad about him. I just want you to be clear about what is *not* your fault. You can't take all the responsibility for his behavior on your shoulders. It's ok to need more than what he's offering. You may just need to get it from someone else.
So let's examine the assumption. What would make you think it was your fault, and not a limitation in what he's offering you?
Posted by joslynn on December 2, 2003, at 9:17:31
In reply to Re: Pdocs » Dinah, posted by Elle2021 on December 2, 2003, at 9:01:11
Elle,
When I was depressed, people kept asking me "What does a pretty girl like you have to be depressed about?" But I heard it from people who didn't know about depression, not from doctors.
I would be upset if my pdoc said that because I am pretty, I shouldn't be depressed. I mean, I can't just say to myself, "oh yeah, I just remembered, I'm pretty, so I can stop being depressed now." Attractive, intelligent people get depressed all the time.
If it bothered you, I would bring it up with him next time.
Hope you don't mind my saying this. I am very protective in my mind about my pdoc too.
Posted by Dinah on December 2, 2003, at 10:06:24
In reply to Re: Pdocs » Dinah, posted by Elle2021 on December 2, 2003, at 9:01:11
Or.....
You could tell him that you now want to add therapy to the meds, and that you'd like a weekly, semi-monthly, whatever therapy schedule. Then ask him if he's willing to do that and if not, could he give you some referrals.
More and more psychiatrists would just prefer to do meds. Mine makes $85 for a 15 minute med check. There's no way he could get an equivilant amount for a therapy hour. Plus meds are a lot easier emotionally. Therapy frequently puts both parties through the wringer.
If you wish he would bring up therapy now, that's a pretty good indication you should bring it up. But *whatever* his response is... IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. It's nothing you did or didn't do. It's not your responsibility. Even if you are different with him than you are on the board (and I know I'm different with my therapist than I am here), even if you are embarassed by some of the things you've said or done, even if... *whatever*. His choices are not your fault and are not your responsibility.
Just remember that, if nothing else. When you're dealing with a professional, even more so than most times, what they do/feel/say is *not* your fault.
Posted by sb417 on December 2, 2003, at 12:45:36
In reply to Re: Pdocs » Elle2021, posted by Dinah on December 2, 2003, at 10:06:24
> > Mine makes $85 for a 15 minute med check.
>Isn't that obscene! Where I live, the going rate is $200 per HALF hour (yes, that's 30 minutes). It is sickening, and enough to make you more depressed!
Posted by judy1 on December 2, 2003, at 13:12:41
In reply to Dinah and Judy 1, posted by Elle2021 on December 1, 2003, at 23:38:20
I apologize for overreacting, since I was a victim of boundary crossing- I sometimes worry too much about other people.
As far as switching to a med/therp relationship- I did the same thing with my shrink. I wasn't comfortable enough to talk to him at first so we kept it essentially a med relationship, then when I felt more comfortable we switched over, it was no problem for him- just a call to my insurance to change from 20 min. sessions to 50 minute ones.
It's really difficult to keep depressive behavior under wraps, I'm sure your other docs pick up on it (they are trained to look for signs) and call your shrink out of concern.
good luck with your new therapeutic relationship- judy
Posted by Dinah on December 2, 2003, at 20:36:53
In reply to Re: Pdocs - cost » Dinah, posted by sb417 on December 2, 2003, at 12:45:36
I'm glad mine only wants to talk to his patients 15 minutes. :) Really less than that. I usually only talk to him about five minutes.
Ah well. In our area at least, there aren't many psychiatrists. It takes months to get an appointment, and if you find one you don't hate, you pay what they ask.
Posted by Karalyn on December 5, 2003, at 17:16:42
In reply to Re: Pdocs » Elle2021, posted by Dinah on December 2, 2003, at 8:39:54
Hey Im a college student going to get married next summer and then I wont be covered under my parents anymore. does anyone know of any insurance that I can get to at least cover doctor visits and meds? my pdoc sucks but I need something. what do i do? any info would be appreciated.
Posted by Karen_kay on December 5, 2003, at 18:49:56
In reply to Mental Health Insurance?!!, posted by Karalyn on December 5, 2003, at 17:16:42
If you live in a larger city, there may be a community mental health service that works on a sliding scale fee, which means you would pay based on income. The meds are generally samples I think. Also your university should be able to steer you in some sort of direction for therapy and medication. Most universities have insurance plans available as well. You can also do a search for free meds given out to people with low income. I'm not sure if you and your husband would qualify or not. Good luck.
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