![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by HannahW on October 3, 2003, at 14:39:03
I had The Big Talk to my therapist yesterday about feeling rejected by her and the resulting wall of defense I put up around myself. I told her I wasn't going to be able to go any deeper with her in therapy until that issue was resolved, because I still needed to come to a place where I didn't feel like I have to protect myself from her. It feels a little brutal to say that to someone. I wonder if it felt that way to her. A tiny little part of me hopes it hurt.
She said, "So what is it that you want from me, an apology? To say I was wrong? Or what would make you feel better about it?" I told her I wanted reassurance. I also told her I had tried to get reassurance from her a couple of other times, but always came up empty. She acknowledged that with an "uh-huh" but then didn't offer any reassurance. Then she steered the conversation away from her and back to me. I'm sure she was displaying very good therapy skills, and it's a Freudian philosophy not to satisfy the infantile wants of patients, but I think it sucks. There were several times that she made me say what I wanted, but then didn't give it to me. I figure the purpose that must be to make me recognize what I want, but then also not be the one to fill that want, but make me find it somewhere else.
We did talk about the reasons that she couldn't go out with me, which helped me understand and feel better about it. So mostly it was a good session and I felt better leaving than I did going in. But then last night I felt intensely lonely.
Posted by fallsfall on October 3, 2003, at 17:38:57
In reply to Therapy can seem so cruel, posted by HannahW on October 3, 2003, at 14:39:03
Lonely because you didn't get the reassurance?
You did a great job bringing that up. That took a lot of courage.
I think that sometimes they don't give us what we want because it is their job to help us figure out what is causing the need. If they just feel what we see as a need, they are just reinforcing that the need is valid and should be filled the way we want. It really does stink.
Sometimes when I was really upset (suicidal), my old therapist would give me what I wanted. In those cases, I tended to think that I was threatening her (even though I really never did) - that was not a comfortable feeling. Recently, my therapist came back from vacation and I was a wreck. I told him that while he was gone I wanted someone to take care of me. And he took care of me before I left that day - I don't quite know how he did it, but somehow his words had magic. Since then there have been things that I've wanted that he hasn't given to me. I haven't pressed for them because I am trying really hard not to get too dependent on him.
I would keep talking about it until it isn't an issue for you anymore. Your loneliness says to me that it still is an issue.
Posted by Dinah on October 3, 2003, at 18:33:09
In reply to Therapy can seem so cruel, posted by HannahW on October 3, 2003, at 14:39:03
I'm glad you feel better about the actual event now. I've happened to see some information on the subject lately, and she was right in that changing your relationship to a friendship would be highly disapproved of in her profession.
It does hurt to ask for something and not get it. I know it's a traditional tenet of the profession to not gratify your patient's needs, but while I understand it intellectually I don't grasp it emotionally. Because part of what we want seems perfectly reasonable to me. We undress emotionally each week before our therapists and we want to assure ourselves that we are safe there. Part of feeling safe is knowing how they feel about us. That at least they like us a fair amount.
I was afraid to ask for sooo long for fear of hitting that refusal to gratify. But when I finally hinted at my fears, I found to my relief that my therapist apparently isn't of the refusal to gratify school.
Posted by HannahW on October 3, 2003, at 19:17:14
In reply to Re: Therapy can seem so cruel » HannahW, posted by Dinah on October 3, 2003, at 18:33:09
I can always count on you two to respond to me. Oh my goodness! Typing that very sentence made me cry!
Oh that felt good. I've been needing that. Thank you.
>>>Part of feeling safe is knowing how they feel about us. That at least they like us a fair amount.
I agree. But my therapist said if she gratified my need for reassurance then I might become afraid to disclose something out of fear of losing her approval. She did say she liked my sense of humor, though. And I actually thought I saw warmth in her eyes when I was leaving.
>>>We undress emotionally each week before our therapists
I love that illustration! The one from "In Session" was especially good. "Seeing a therapist is like seeing a prostitute. Even though it's awkward, you quickly get undressed so you can get what you came for. Then, just when you're feeling relaxed you have to hurry up and put your clothes back on so someone else can use the room." Too funny! (And too true!)
>>>Lonely because you didn't get the reassurance?
Sort of. More specifically I think I felt lonely because I was craving an intimate exchange, and all I got was one-sided therapy.
>>>You did a great job bringing that up. That took a lot of courage.
Thank you. I had brought it up a couple of times before, but she always directed the conversation toward related things, but never addressing our relationship specifically. I had to come right out and tell her we had to talk about the two of us.
>>>I am trying really hard not to get too dependent on him.
Me too. I hope that doesn't interfere with our therapy. Some say that transference is integral to the healing process, but it also turns a person's world upside down.
>>>I would keep talking about it until it isn't an issue for you anymore. Your loneliness says to me that it still is an issue.
I think you're right. <sigh> Progress, at least. Progress.
Thanks, you two for the good cry. I even had a second one in the middle.
Posted by Adia on October 3, 2003, at 21:52:14
In reply to Therapy can seem so cruel, posted by HannahW on October 3, 2003, at 14:39:03
> I had The Big Talk to my therapist yesterday about feeling rejected by her and the resulting wall of defense I put up around myself. I told her I wasn't going to be able to go any deeper with her in therapy until that issue was resolved, because I still needed to come to a place where I didn't feel like I have to protect myself from her. It feels a little brutal to say that to someone. I wonder if it felt that way to her. A tiny little part of me hopes it hurt.
>
> She said, "So what is it that you want from me, an apology? To say I was wrong? Or what would make you feel better about it?" I told her I wanted reassurance. I also told her I had tried to get reassurance from her a couple of other times, but always came up empty. She acknowledged that with an "uh-huh" but then didn't offer any reassurance. Then she steered the conversation away from her and back to me. I'm sure she was displaying very good therapy skills, and it's a Freudian philosophy not to satisfy the infantile wants of patients, but I think it sucks. There were several times that she made me say what I wanted, but then didn't give it to me. I figure the purpose that must be to make me recognize what I want, but then also not be the one to fill that want, but make me find it somewhere else.
>
> We did talk about the reasons that she couldn't go out with me, which helped me understand and feel better about it. So mostly it was a good session and I felt better leaving than I did going in. But then last night I felt intensely lonely.Dear Hannah,
I've been thinking of you...
I am sorry you felt lonely...I too sometimes feel lonely after sessions because there is so much happening inside...
I think it was really brave of you to talk with your therapist...
I am sorry though that she didn't give you the reassurance you needed. That hurts...
I honestly feel lucky that my T does reassure me that I am safe with her..and that she values me as a human being and wants to work with me. Sometimes the reassurance doesn't come in words directly, but I feel it when I feel understood by her or truly heard.
I hope you feel heard by your therapist..
I am glad you were able to talk about it with her, it seems she's trying to understand...I would keep on talking to her about how I am feeling...about the loneliness you feel....
JUst wanted to reach out and let you know I am sending you my support....
I can't be of much help in these issues because I feel I really need reassurance or some kind of warmth or to know I matter to my therapist to open up...and I know that a therapist can't fill all those needs that hurt inside...but I feel that a little reassurance...sometimes a gesture, or some comment...helps build trust...
Maybe your therapist has other ways to show reassurance or to show you that it is safe to trust and share with her..Now I value more to feel understood and accepted if I share something and to feel my therapist can truly see inside of me...than to hear "I do care about you"..because I feel that in the way she treats me or responds to me and words are not necessary.
Maybe your therapist has other ways to show you that it is safe.
I do think that you need to build trust with her and that takes time...Thinking of you,
Adia.
Posted by Dinah on October 3, 2003, at 22:07:06
In reply to Re: Therapy can seem so cruel » HannahW, posted by Adia on October 3, 2003, at 21:52:14
Adia, you are completely right. Actions do speak louder than words. My therapist had told me a few times that he cared about me, and I tended to disbelieve it. Then one time, I was talking about suicide and he winced. And that wince meant more to me than anything he had ever said. The next session, as a gift for caring about me, I gave him my promise not to kill myself without letting him try to help first.
Of course, for all I know, he winced because he had gas, or was thinking of someone else's suicide. But still.....
Posted by fallsfall on October 4, 2003, at 10:54:49
In reply to Re: Therapy can seem so cruel--Dinah/Fallsfall, posted by HannahW on October 3, 2003, at 19:17:14
>>Sort of. More specifically I think I felt lonely because I was craving an intimate exchange, and all I got was one-sided therapy.
But you aren't supposed to get an intimate exchange in therapy (even though we want it).
>>>I am trying really hard not to get too dependent on him.
>>Me too. I hope that doesn't interfere with our therapy. Some say that transference is integral to the healing process, but it also turns a person's world upside down.
Trying not to be dependent doesn't keep me from getting into transference. I think that for me the dependence has more to do with a belief that the therapist has all the answers, and (more importantly) that I don't have the answers. It feeds on itself - the more I rely on the therapist, the more I believe that I can't do it on my own. My current therapist is well aware of my dependency problem, and I think that he is actively working to encourage my independence.
You are doing fine. You are honestly looking at your issues. You are bringing them up (and up and up) in therapy until you get answers.
The things that you want from her (like this intimate exchange) are things that you want from people in general. Do you have that outside of therapy? Since therapy is supposed to end sometime (I still want forever therapy), if you only satisfy that need in therapy at some point you will again be unsatisfied. This is so much easier to say than it is to do. (You said this in your first post)
Are we having fun yet?
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.