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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tabitha on September 29, 2003, at 2:37:15
I've felt bad since my last session. I've gone from mildly upset to total meltdown. Convinced my therapist doesn't like me. This happened before when I was in her group-- seems like any complaint I have about a group member (in individual session), she turns it back against me, takes their side. I end up feeling attacked and shamed. Normally when I gripe about anyone else in my life she makes me feel supported. Sometimes defends them also, or tries to make me see them more compassionately, but she doesn't turn my complaint against me.
I was telling her I still don't see men as fully human. I realize this is a flaw in me. It's not something I want to hold onto. I want to like men. I want to marry one of them fer cryin out loud! But she really made me feel ashamed of it. She was telling me how unfair it is to group people like that. Duh, like I don't realize that! Every thing I said I don't like about them, she said it's me who has those qualities.
I just came out feeling like she doesn't like me, and is sick of my stuff, and doesn't know what to do with me, and just cares more about the group than me.
I'm so upset I don't want to go back ever. I'm so tired of the confusion. What's the point when the session makes me come out feeling sicker than when I went in?
I've put so much time and energy and money into therapy-- I've let her re-shape my whole thinking. It's practically my religion-- in a sense I put faith into it, as a path to happiness and meaning. When the relationship gets disrupted like this, it shakes up my whole foundation.
Makes me think all her prior support was fake-- this is the true opinion. Like if she'd seen the other people in my life, instead of just hearing my side, she'd have preferred them too.
My individual session isn't til thursday. I'm just outraged I'm going to be swamped with all this all week.
Posted by fallsfall on September 29, 2003, at 8:18:50
In reply to Total meltdown from last session, posted by Tabitha on September 29, 2003, at 2:37:15
Tabitha,
I'm so sorry that you have to go through this. It sounds very painful!
This sounds really similar to what I was feeling with my first therapist. I now think that it was transference, because I was able to get the same feeling with my new therapist. In my case, I feel like they are mad or disappointed in me. Then I try to frantically "fix" whatever it is that I think I did. The intensity of the emotions is incredibly high. Maybe what I learned from my agony can help you.
Try to be really clear with your therapist about what you are feeling, and what it means to you. Don't avoid it and hope it will go away (it won't). Be as open as you can, and describe it as precisely as you can. Hopefully the two of you can talk about it and see what issues from your past are coming up because of this (jealosy? favoritism?).
Depending on your therapist's orientation (CBT, Psychodynamic, Eclectic etc) she may have different reactions. If she doesn't seem to be able or willing to deal with this issue for you, then I would recommend that you ask for a consultation with someone else to get through this. (My new therapist is Psychodynamic and he is more "into" transference than my old therapist was)
I believe that what you are experiencing is not unusual, and it can be very helpful in allowing you to make progress with your therapy.
Let us know how it goes. (((Tabitha)))
Posted by fallsfall on September 29, 2003, at 9:01:27
In reply to Total meltdown from last session, posted by Tabitha on September 29, 2003, at 2:37:15
I think that your level of distress could warrant a call to your therapist today. She might be able to at least assure you that this is something you can work on together.
Thursday is a long time away.
Posted by judy1 on September 29, 2003, at 10:34:02
In reply to Total meltdown from last session, posted by Tabitha on September 29, 2003, at 2:37:15
I'm so sorry you're having such a rough time right now. for some reason i've never done well in group settings, and can't imagine having the same therp for group and individual- just seems like adding more problems to the dynamic you share with your therapist. are you gaining a lot from group? if so, would you consider having a different therp for group- that is the way I've always done it. maybe something to think about?
hope you feel better- judy
Posted by Tabitha on September 29, 2003, at 10:38:56
In reply to Re: P.S. » Tabitha, posted by fallsfall on September 29, 2003, at 9:01:27
thanks Falls. I feel silly for being so upset. My eyes are all puffy from crying and now the carpenter is here to work on my house. It's embarassing.
I did not think of it as a transference reaction-- but I suppose it's all transference isn't it?
I'm sure she'll be open to discussing this-- she just loves processing our relationship. I've been not calling for a phone session out of pure pique. I'm like, OK, you hurt my feelings, and now I'm supposed to pay you 2 bucks a minute to talk about it on the phone? No way!
Probably foolish since it's just making me suffer. I'm sure she really did nothing (major) wrong and it's (mostly) all my stuff I need to look at. Valuable issues coming up for me. Right? It just seems so real.
Posted by Tabitha on September 29, 2003, at 11:13:10
In reply to Re: Total meltdown from last session » Tabitha, posted by judy1 on September 29, 2003, at 10:34:02
thanks judy. This was the very first group session. But I tried her groups before, and one group disbanded due to people dropping out, the next time I got kicked out (long story). That was 4 years ago and I think I can overcome the issues I had then.
It really does seem like a nice group, and I felt hopeful after the session-- but then my individual session brought all this up.
I can see pros and cons to this dynamic with having her in a dual role. On the plus side she can actually see how I interact with people so can give me accurate feedback. She can also coach me on how to get more value out of the group in my individual sessions. But right now I'm just seeing the bad side-- feels like I've lost my advocate-- abruptly.
If falls is right (I hope) and it's my own stuff coming up here, maybe it will be for the good. It's just a lot more stress than I've had for a while. My relationship with the therp has been very smooth for a long time.
Posted by Dinah on September 29, 2003, at 13:05:02
In reply to Total meltdown from last session, posted by Tabitha on September 29, 2003, at 2:37:15
Tabitha, I'm not sure your perceptions are all transference. It sounds as if she has a lot invested in this group working out for you and may just be pushing a bit harder than is right for you. And her actions might be bringing up some old feelings in you.
I agree with the others. Please call her. Apart from all else you've got group before your next individual session, right? You don't want to go into group with all this baggage.
Give her a call and let her know how you perceive her actions, and what feelings they are bringing up in you. You've had a long and productive relationship and I'm sure you can work it out together. My therapist and I were just talking today about all the obstacles we've worked out (or hammered out or fought out) in our relationship, and how in the end it makes it stronger.
But this brings up an interesting topic of it's own. Is group with the same therapist as your individual therapist some sort of dual relationship? She *has* to be concerned with the group as an entity as well as you as a client. And you probably also have some juggling to do with her as both group leader and individual therapist. There are all those other clients that we all have some ambivalent feelings about, sitting right in front of you! And you're supposed to be friendly! And at times you probably will all want to join together against the authority figure.
I'm not saying it can't be helpful. It probably can. I just think that all parties need to be aware of conflicting priorities and loyalties, and monitor their behaviors extra closely. And it probably wouldn't hurt to monitor each others' behaviors as well.
On the other hand, what I'm saying is that you should in no way feel she's taking sides against you with the other members or that she prefers the other members to you. It's the group as an entity that she is responsible for and that is also a source of revenue to her that is your "rival" for her loyalties, not the individual group members.
Posted by HannahW on September 29, 2003, at 17:00:09
In reply to Total meltdown from last session, posted by Tabitha on September 29, 2003, at 2:37:15
Ugh. I think it would be very difficult to suddenly let my therapist see me in a new situation. I would feel like she knows all of my secrets, and that I should get special treatment and protection because of them. (Of course, I would know that she knew everyone else's secrets too, but that wouldn't stop me from feeling like I should be special!)
If you've had a good relationship with your therapist so far, try not to let one bad session make you think it's all over. I agree with the others--talk to her about it.
> I've felt bad since my last session. I've gone from mildly upset to total meltdown. Convinced my therapist doesn't like me. This happened before when I was in her group-- seems like any complaint I have about a group member (in individual session), she turns it back against me, takes their side. I end up feeling attacked and shamed. Normally when I gripe about anyone else in my life she makes me feel supported. Sometimes defends them also, or tries to make me see them more compassionately, but she doesn't turn my complaint against me.
>
> I was telling her I still don't see men as fully human. I realize this is a flaw in me. It's not something I want to hold onto. I want to like men. I want to marry one of them fer cryin out loud! But she really made me feel ashamed of it. She was telling me how unfair it is to group people like that. Duh, like I don't realize that! Every thing I said I don't like about them, she said it's me who has those qualities.
>
> I just came out feeling like she doesn't like me, and is sick of my stuff, and doesn't know what to do with me, and just cares more about the group than me.
>
> I'm so upset I don't want to go back ever. I'm so tired of the confusion. What's the point when the session makes me come out feeling sicker than when I went in?
>
> I've put so much time and energy and money into therapy-- I've let her re-shape my whole thinking. It's practically my religion-- in a sense I put faith into it, as a path to happiness and meaning. When the relationship gets disrupted like this, it shakes up my whole foundation.
>
> Makes me think all her prior support was fake-- this is the true opinion. Like if she'd seen the other people in my life, instead of just hearing my side, she'd have preferred them too.
>
> My individual session isn't til thursday. I'm just outraged I'm going to be swamped with all this all week.
Posted by Tabitha on September 30, 2003, at 0:30:41
In reply to Re: Total meltdown from last session » Tabitha, posted by HannahW on September 29, 2003, at 17:00:09
and surprisingly she said maybe group isn't a good thing for me. I didn't really want to hear that. I was counting on the group experience to eventually help my social life.
Posted by Dinah on September 30, 2003, at 7:20:12
In reply to Re: update-- talked to therapist, posted by Tabitha on September 30, 2003, at 0:30:41
Did she base that on your behavior/feelings in group? Or your behavior/feelings toward her? If it was the latter, maybe you'd do better in a group run by someone else.
Didn't she ask for a one year commitment to the group?
Posted by judy1 on September 30, 2003, at 9:47:36
In reply to Re: update-- talked to therapist, posted by Tabitha on September 30, 2003, at 0:30:41
I second Dinah's comment- I think group run by her isn't a great idea. if you want the experience of group therapy, then by all means seek out a group run by another therapist.
best of luck- judy
Posted by HannahW on September 30, 2003, at 12:12:06
In reply to Re: update-- talked to therapist, posted by Tabitha on September 30, 2003, at 0:30:41
That's puzzling. Did she say why she thought group might not be for you? It seems a little odd that she would recommend it, and then withdraw her recommendation after only one group session.
You made a few references to being kicked out of group once before. If you don't mind me asking, what happened? (If you'd rather not say, I understand.) Are you repeating any of the problems from before, that you're aware of?
Posted by Penny on September 30, 2003, at 13:19:38
In reply to Re: update-- talked to therapist, posted by Tabitha on September 30, 2003, at 0:30:41
When you were in group last time, wasn't your private therapist also your group therapist, and isn't that how it is now also? Forgive me if I'm mistaken.
If that is the case, couldn't that be a big part of the problem? B/c that makes the others in the group her patients too, which could lead to conflicts with how she views what you say about others in the group (who she actually knows, not just through you), and her perspective on how you are doing in group.
Perhaps if you were in a group that wasn't led by your therapist it would be better. I know that I certainly would never agree to be in a group led by my personal therapist. I don't want to share her and would be less likely to be as honest about my interactions with other patients in group due to their relationship with her.
Or maybe I'm completely wrong and your group is led by someone different. In which case, ignore all of the above!
I'm sorry you're having such a rough time with group.
P
Posted by fallsfall on September 30, 2003, at 16:41:27
In reply to Re: update-- talked to therapist, posted by Tabitha on September 30, 2003, at 0:30:41
I'm really glad you talked to her today.
I was in two groups, but I did attend one other group for one session - and it was run by my therapist. She asked me to go to a different group - I guess there was someone in her group who worked for the same company that I did, and she was afraid we would run into each other professionally. It did seem a little strange for my therapist to tell me she didn't want me in her group. The other group I went to was fine.
Do you know if she had been thinking that group wasn't such a good idea before you called her?
I agree that a group with a different therapist could make a difference (but I was in one group where almost everybody else had the group therapist for individual and I felt very left out).
Posted by Tabitha on October 1, 2003, at 14:39:39
In reply to Re: update-- talked to therapist » Tabitha, posted by fallsfall on September 30, 2003, at 16:41:27
the last group session was good. We all got to share, and I felt connected and empathetic with everyone. I think I said OK things to people. It felt good going out to the parking lot together, like we were a real group.
I'm still mad at my therapist though. I think she messed up in my session. I think she just didn't trust me to behave OK in the group so she thought she had to bludgeon the resistance out of me. What happened before, in the group where I was kicked out, was that I became totally convinced one guy had a really unfair negative opinion of me, and I couldn't see that I had some projection operating. I just didn't get the concept of projection. But I get it now!
I don't look forward to our next session.
Posted by Dinah on October 1, 2003, at 19:21:25
In reply to Re: update--better group session, posted by Tabitha on October 1, 2003, at 14:39:39
That's great! And maybe she'll back off a bit now. :(
Posted by Tabitha on October 2, 2003, at 0:32:44
In reply to Re: update--better group session » Tabitha, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2003, at 19:21:25
I hope. Maybe I've proved that I know how to behave appropriately in the group.
I still don't look forward to working out this wrinkle in our relationship. It feels so humiliating when I'm mad at her, and simultaneously realize it just shows how much I'm dependent on her. And I have to pay her to tell her about it! When therapy is going smoothly, I can just think she's a teacher-- then this type of stuff shows she's still the central person in my emotional life. A disruption in our relationship and I regress years in my level of functioning. Grrr.
Posted by Medusa on October 6, 2003, at 5:22:30
In reply to Re: update--better group session, posted by Tabitha on October 1, 2003, at 14:39:39
Hey Tabitha!
In which setting do you like your therapist better - individually, or in the group?
I don't put a lot of stake in therapy groups as social resources. And I've been in quite a few! The first group I was in was at the uni counseling center, and the theme was "About Groups". I learned a lot that I can use in other group settings, but really didn't have much besides social impairment in common with other group participants.
Glad to see you're still posting here ... sorry my visits are so sporadic. I was spending a lot of time on another board for specific social issues, and seem to have wrapped that up. Tomorrow night I have a new therapy session scheduled - will post about this structure later - and I feel like I'm moving into a new stage or area of work.
Posted by Tabitha on October 8, 2003, at 14:43:06
In reply to Therapy groups as social resources » Tabitha, posted by Medusa on October 6, 2003, at 5:22:30
Hey Medusa. The group isn't exactly a social resource-- in fact we're prohibited from socializing outside the sessions in our contract. But it still seems to provide some of my minimum requirement of human contact.
You're right about the difference between friends with whom you have common interests, and friends who mainly trade support. After participation in other informal support groups I realized-- hey we sort of have a common hobby here-- talking about problems and trading support.
I seem to get in trouble when I try to use 'fun' friends for support, and vice versa. I just end up disappointed. Someday maybe I'll know people who serve both purposes. Or maybe I'm expecting something that doesn't make sense.
Posted by HannahW on October 8, 2003, at 15:12:40
In reply to Re: Therapy groups as social resources » Medusa, posted by Tabitha on October 8, 2003, at 14:43:06
> You're right about the difference between friends with whom you have common interests, and friends who mainly trade support.
>
> I seem to get in trouble when I try to use 'fun' friends for support, and vice versa. I just end up disappointed. Someday maybe I'll know people who serve both purposes. Or maybe I'm expecting something that doesn't make sense.I've always thought that someone HAD to serve both purposes in order to be a friend. But looking at it in light of some people are better at fun, and some people are better at support, it makes good sense to divide them up that way. Then maybe I wouldn't be so disappointed either.
Although I had a friend once who divided her friends up into groups like that and it really hurt me when she wouldn't let me be in more than one group at a time. I was only a "fun" friend, when I really wanted to be closer to her.
I hope we both find people to fit into both categories. Those are wonderful, albeit hard to find.
Posted by Medusa on October 8, 2003, at 15:31:49
In reply to Re: Therapy groups as social resources » Medusa, posted by Tabitha on October 8, 2003, at 14:43:06
> But it still seems to provide some of my minimum requirement of human contact.
>Got it. I hope I didn't seem unsupportive of your approach to getting the human contact you need. I misunderstood what you meant by "social".
> I seem to get in trouble when I try to use 'fun' friends for support, and vice versa. I just end up disappointed. Someday maybe I'll know people who serve both purposes. Or maybe I'm expecting something that doesn't make sense.
>Please be civil. (Smirk.) Seriously, that's an interesting question. I know a few people who are both fun and supportive ... but way too many people use "fun" as a means to get support. Which is another story. I have a hard time having "fun" with people who don't have anything else going. And I can't be supportive for someone all the time, if they're just sucking energy out of me and there's zero contribution from their side. Worst of all are the cases who suck me dry, then complain that we're not having fun.
But this was supposed to be about you, not about my skewed impressions of social interaction.
Um, about your therapist pushing you to do personal ads to meet people ... gosh, I met over a hundred men that way over the course of about 20 months. It made me really good at sizing people up fast, and honed my "thanks-but-no-thanks" skills. I perfected the art of the 11-minute-decaf. I really don't know that personal ads deliver anything else.
Posted by Tabitha on October 9, 2003, at 19:04:13
In reply to Re: Therapy groups as social resources » Tabitha, posted by Medusa on October 8, 2003, at 15:31:49
I was thinking of my real-life friends when I wrote the fun vs social things. Actually here at Babble I get a good mix of both. -Wiping tear from eye- God I love you guys!
Your personal ad story made me laugh.
This is the end of the thread.
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