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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by judy1 on August 25, 2002, at 12:47:09
and have parts or alters (or not even full personalities), how can you tell if you (the dominant you) have a disorder? If you have a child part that is severely anxious or frightened because of experiences, then it's you that's being medicated for anxiety disorder. Maybe I'm reading too much, but I read people with multiple diagnosis (s)- I have 4- may have parts that have those disorders. I guess I wonder most about my manic episodes, particularly if I don't remember parts- like traveling (which they call a fugue state). Okay, any input welcomed :-) take care, judy
Posted by Dinah on August 26, 2002, at 0:53:48
In reply to If you have a dissociative disorder, posted by judy1 on August 25, 2002, at 12:47:09
I've wondered about similar things Judy. But more along the lines of personality disorders. I don't know about more global disorders that involve neural circuitry or brain chemicals, or executive functions. I mean, there is only one brain, so if something is haywire there, the whole brain needs to be treated.
Anxiety would be more borderline I suppose. If you have a lot of anxiety in one state, and I don't suppose that's unusual, it would trigger chemical reactions that would need to be treated on a whole brain basis. And if moving into another state calmed you, the chemical reactions would reverse themselves. Perhaps depression might be the same way.
But I don't know about mania. It can be triggered by stress or staying up late or things like that, so I suppose it could be triggered in different states, but once it's triggered wouldn't it just be a brain malfunction? I don't know about you, but once I take a medication that triggers a hypomanic episode, not much will reverse it but time or medication. Removing the trigger doesn't help at that point.
I don't know. I guess I see dissociative states as more of a learned or conditioned response and less of a brain thing, and that probably colors my ideas about these things.
Posted by judy1 on August 26, 2002, at 11:03:50
In reply to Re: If you have a dissociative disorder » judy1, posted by Dinah on August 26, 2002, at 0:53:48
But I don't know about mania. It can be triggered by stress or staying up late or things like that, so I suppose it
could be triggered in different states, but once it's triggered wouldn't it just be a brain malfunction? I don't know
about you, but once I take a medication that triggers a hypomanic episode, not much will reverse it but time or
medication. Removing the trigger doesn't help at that point.I agree with you here, although I have never allowed time to stop a manic episode- I'm usually in the hospital under heavy medication, or lately taking medication to stop while I'm hypomanic. So I guess i can't say for sure if enough time elapsed i would be able to reverse it myself. even my shrink has spoken about 'manic defenses' and i think it's something you or i brought up here before.
I don't know. I guess I see dissociative states as more of a learned or conditioned response and less of a brain
thing, and that probably colors my ideas about these things.I'm told it's a coping mechanism and i believe that, but i also wonder (in my case) since i have had several seizures if it does have something to do with brain function. one of the results of recurrent trauma is the shrinking of the hyppocampus (which I have on MRIs)and i imagine that would effect dissociative states.
take care, judy
Posted by terra miller on August 26, 2002, at 22:57:16
In reply to If you have a dissociative disorder, posted by judy1 on August 25, 2002, at 12:47:09
i think i understand what you are asking. you two sailed over my head tonight. :-)
if you think in terms of parts having different personalities, then it makes since that one personality might be manic while another is depressed while another displays borderline characteristics. they can have different religions, sexes, and all other things including disorders. some may have PTSD, while others are totally together and responsible.
as for me, i mostly feel like a shell.... i am a shell through which everybody else relates. that's probably a strange concept, but that's a lot like what it feels.
as far as meds, i cannot take xanax for example unless i am in one particular state. otherwise, it is too strong or makes me sick. but in that particular state, the dose is perfect and it works perfectly within 5 minutes. i cannot take it for anticipatory anxiety, because then it doesn't even work at all; you'd think i took nothing.
terra
Posted by judy1 on August 27, 2002, at 0:01:42
In reply to Re: If you have a dissociative disorder » judy1, posted by terra miller on August 26, 2002, at 22:57:16
as for me, i mostly feel like a shell.... i am a shell through which everybody else relates. that's probably a strange
concept, but that's a lot like what it feels.So you don't feel like the dominant personality? I get the feeling like the terra who posts here is very consistant- are you struggling to maintain that control? I know i feel like the times when i don't remember or dissociate are the times i'm not in control. i know exactly what you mean by taking a med at a certain time (especially a quick acting med like xanax) it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. i hope i haven't been too obtuse here- these are thoughts i have that i'll write here but won't talk to my therapist about. take care, judy
Posted by Craig on August 27, 2002, at 1:50:31
In reply to Re: If you have a dissociative disorder » judy1, posted by terra miller on August 26, 2002, at 22:57:16
I have a session on tape where one was hypomanic and another did nothing but cry. One tries to figure out the logic in all this stuff, but never has (and it really pisses him off). A nurse read me my chart during one hospitalization, saying that the chief complaint on admission was, “I want to know the physiological basis for what happens to me when I can’t keep track of things.” Apparently my team thought that was really absurd.
Posted by Dinah on August 27, 2002, at 5:42:14
In reply to Re: If you have a dissociative disorder » terra miller, posted by judy1 on August 27, 2002, at 0:01:42
>i hope i haven't been too obtuse here- these are thoughts i have that i'll write here but won't talk to my therapist about. take care, judy
>Hi Judy.
I hope you soon feel safe enough with your therapist to share these things with him/her. I think it would really move therapy along. I know it's a long slow process though. :) I so enjoy my trust with my therapist now, that I sometimes forget it took me five years to learn to trust him and I've had two years with him since then, with the trust deepening even further over time.
Is your therapist open to things like this? I think you said he/she was, but that your pdoc wasn't? I would have a LOT of trouble talking to someone who wasn't open to the idea. My therapist has always appeared rather neutral, but agreed to read "The Myth of Sanity" and said at that time that he understood and accepted the concepts of dissociated ego states, etc. So I felt more comfortable about it.
Posted by Dinah on August 27, 2002, at 5:51:09
In reply to Re: If you have a dissociative disorder, posted by Craig on August 27, 2002, at 1:50:31
Seems like a perfectly logical question to me. I can't imagine why they didn't understand it. I spent years obsessed with the question of "Why do I do the things I do?" and even underwent a battery of personality and psychological tests with that as my reason for being there. A rather non-specific question I guess and one I never got completely answered, although little by little in therapy I am gaining a bit of understanding.
I don't actually have alters and I don't switch, I've just dissociated my rational self from my feeling self, so that my neurological state and electrical activity or chemical activity or whatever is pretty constant. Would you think it probably depends a lot on co-consciousness?
Posted by judy1 on August 27, 2002, at 11:33:16
In reply to Re: If you have a dissociative disorder » judy1, posted by Dinah on August 27, 2002, at 5:42:14
Your right :-)- my shrink isn't open, but my therapist (a woman) has actually written a book on DID, so she's very open. She's the one who gave me the diagnosis of DD-NOS, and she understands that we're working on the trust issue (I'm still in the first year with her). I think I mentioned that she wants to go to 2x/week sessions, and i always land up cancelling one. Lots of work to do here, i'm glad you've come so far. take care, judy
Posted by judy1 on August 27, 2002, at 11:39:01
In reply to Re: If you have a dissociative disorder, posted by Craig on August 27, 2002, at 1:50:31
Well it's pretty obvious you were in the wrong hospital because that's a very rational question. There is a hospital in LA called Del Amo hospital that works with this disorder, I think Terra didn't like the director?, his name is Colin Ross I think, and he's done a great deal of work with dissociation. My shrink and therapist wanted me in there a few months ago because i was very unstable and SIing, but i have an incredible fear of hospitals. take care, judy
Posted by terra miller on August 28, 2002, at 0:31:32
In reply to Re: If you have a dissociative disorder » terra miller, posted by judy1 on August 27, 2002, at 0:01:42
> as for me, i mostly feel like a shell.... i am a shell through which everybody else relates. that's probably a strange
> concept, but that's a lot like what it feels.
>
> So you don't feel like the dominant personality? I get the feeling like the terra who posts here is very consistant- are you struggling to maintain that control?boy, the answer to that one is extremely complex. i have no control over being in control. i don't know when i am in control even, but i recognize when i haven't been. the problem is that i always feel like i am in control, only to realize later that i never was. a lot of who i am is partially a grouping of personalities and then still many singles. so if i am operating singly and then come out of it, i realize that i wasn't in control. but i will always tell you that i am in control.... because theoretically speaking, "whoever" you talk to at that moment is going to tell you that they are "in control." UGH!
so, it depends. i'm trying to think about how i feel right now as i write. i'm not sure if i feel like the "main" personality; i feel more created. isn't that weird. but it's all about survival, and i have lots of rules about internet behavior and so especially here you'll notice that i'll probably come across- it feels monotone almost- supportive and informative. but you won't see me participating in the behind the scenes arguments because of my adopted monotone supportive/informative stance, fyi. blablablablablabla. :-)
>>I know i feel like the times when i don't remember or dissociate are the times i'm not in control.you know what's interesting about that comment is your awareness that you weren't in control. of course, sometimes it's obvious when you have a SI issue you didn't do things like that. but i know for me that i don't know that i even dissociate. in fact, i don't know that i've dissociated often until i am three "dissociations" past the first one. i guess i still have a lot of protective devices still in place. i know i do.
hey, re: your therapist comment. sometimes the ability to trust can come easier from a child's perspective. for example, i have always trusted my therapist from the start because i am predominately made up of children who respond to being loved. and the times when i've distrusted my therapist have all been times when a child has felt threatened or misunderstood, and then somebody stronger steps up to defend them and then my therapist has a h--- of a time regaining the trust. all that is to say, depending on how you approach therapy and your therapist might determine how quickly you are able to trust. of course there are lots of other factors obviously. i know i bumped up to twice a week after just a month because somehow inside of me there was a realization that we had found the right person to talk to, and we couldn't keep up with the flow of information if we didn't spill it out and so many times we didn't know if we would make it to the next session. all that is to say, when you are ready to bump up to twice a week you will know it. i think you will know it because you will start to need it.
rambling terra
Posted by Craig on August 28, 2002, at 1:42:54
In reply to Re: If you have a dissociative disorder » Craig, posted by Dinah on August 27, 2002, at 5:51:09
I’m lost here....
***********************
I've just dissociated my rational self from my feeling self, so that my neurological state and electrical activity or chemical activity or whatever is pretty constant. Would you think it probably depends a lot on co-consciousness?
Posted by Craig on August 28, 2002, at 1:48:53
In reply to Re: If you have a dissociative disorder » Craig, posted by judy1 on August 27, 2002, at 11:39:01
What we think is a logical, rational question (thank you, Dinah and Judy) was construed as “showing a lack of insight.” At the time, I was on the dissociative disorders unit at Rush-Presbyterian in Chicago.
***************************
Well it's pretty obvious you were in the wrong hospital because that's a very rational question. There is a hospital in LA called Del Amo hospital that works with this disorder, I think Terra didn't like the director?, his name is Colin Ross I think, and he's done a great deal of work with dissociation. My shrink and therapist wanted me in there a few months ago because i was very unstable and SIing, but i have an incredible fear of hospitals. take care, judy
Posted by Craig on August 28, 2002, at 1:56:30
In reply to Re: If you have a dissociative disorder » judy1, posted by terra miller on August 28, 2002, at 0:31:32
I told my doctor that it was like standing under Niagara Falls with a Dixie cup.
**********************
and we couldn't keep up with the flow of information if we didn't spill it out and so many times we didn't know if we would make it to the next session.
Posted by Dinah on August 28, 2002, at 6:00:10
In reply to Re: If you have a dissociative disorder » Dinah, posted by Craig on August 28, 2002, at 1:42:54
> I’m lost here....
>
> ***********************Chuckle. :) Well, join the club. I can never figure out what I'm talking about either.
Dinah
Posted by judy1 on August 28, 2002, at 11:52:06
In reply to Re: If you have a dissociative disorder » judy1, posted by Craig on August 28, 2002, at 1:48:53
You just reinforced my feelings about hospitals- the unit you were in is considered one of the best in the country. go figure... how are you doing now? take care, judy
Posted by judy1 on August 28, 2002, at 12:00:17
In reply to Re: If you have a dissociative disorder » judy1, posted by terra miller on August 28, 2002, at 0:31:32
so, it depends. i'm trying to think about how i feel right now as i write. i'm not sure if i feel like the "main"
personality; i feel more createdthat makes total sense to me; it sounds like you took the strongest facets of your personalities to 'create' the host (a very practical thing to do)
all that is to say, when you are ready to
bump up to twice a week you will know it. i think you will know it because you will start to need it.
well, you just repeated exactly what my therapist said. something to the effect of you will know exactly how much you can take; and when i asked why it's taken me so long to deal with this, she basically said i wasn't ready.thanks for your insights and take care, judy
Posted by Dinah on August 28, 2002, at 14:22:04
In reply to Re: If you have a dissociative disorder » judy1, posted by terra miller on August 28, 2002, at 0:31:32
> i'm not sure if i feel like the "main" personality; i feel more created.
Me too, terra. Exactly. I sometimes refer to myself as "she who is as she should be" and my emotional self as "she who is as she is". I feel like I created myself to function. If that makes any sense.
Posted by terra miller on August 28, 2002, at 16:50:45
In reply to Re: If you have a dissociative dis - Judy, Craig » terra miller, posted by Dinah on August 28, 2002, at 14:22:04
This is the end of the thread.
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