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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 31 to 55 of 62. Go back in thread:
Posted by linkadge on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:13
In reply to Re: Exercise and depression » linkadge, posted by Maximus on August 6, 2006, at 19:26:27
>In spite my condition (sometimes very bad), i >have been coaching both a hockey team and a >Soccer team for over 20 years. Surprise? I have >seen many many people in sports. They tend to >trust me. So i have been aware of many intimate >things. Exercise has never been >sufficient/effective by itself to relieve >depression. Never.
You don't know that for sure. For instance, populations that exercise have statistically lower rates of depression. So, who's to say that many more of these people wouldn't have gone on to develop depression had they not been exercising? Who's to say that those who did develop depression may have developed it earlier or to a greater degree had they not been exercising?
It was clear to us kids the day our mom stopped exercising that she plunged much deeper into depression. Now, you're right, the exercise alone may have been insufficiant at certain times, but thats not to say that it didn't have a substantial effect, we all could see that.
Unfortunately, a well designed study is the most effective tool to acurately asess wheather or not a treatment modality has an effect.
In general, both drugs and >sports are needed.
>Now, that is the real world, not studies or >utopic hope.Unfortunately, studies are the only way we can accurately and comparitivly assess a treatment vs. no treatment. I am not saying that exercise will obliterate depression 100% of the time (drugs can't do that either).
Another possability is that the psychosocial stress of a competetive sport is conteracting an antidepressant effect. I wouldn't necessarily recomend this type of exercise for depression, unless it was entirely noncompeititive.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:13
In reply to Re: Exercise and depression, posted by noelle on August 6, 2006, at 23:09:03
What type of exercising have you been doing? How is your weight? What type of depression do you have anxious/neurotic, or atypical overeating oversleeping etc?
Linkadge
Posted by wacky on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:14
In reply to Re: Exercise and depression » noelle, posted by linkadge on August 7, 2006, at 2:09:42
I have to chime in one more time. The sweating caused by Effexor has been horrible for me - and I believe caused my heatstroke about a month ago while riding (horse) in a clinic. The temp was hot - around 98. However, I have been very heat tolerant my entire life which is why I was scheduled to ride in the heat to give other's the cooler morning rides. I was shaking so hard, was white as a ghost, and they took me to a swimming pool where I shivered for about an hour complaining I was cold. Since then, I've been very careful to monitor my sweating and lack of heat regulation.
One other comment about competitive sports - I tend to disagree that they are bad or should be avoided. For me, at least, it increases the motivation to get out and practice. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am a competitive dressage rider. When I have a horse show looming, I am much more likely to force myself to ride and then I feel better - just knowing I did it. If nothing is coming up, I come up with all the excuses in the book why I don't need to. And so the cycle continues.
Just my thoughts.
Posted by nickguy on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:16
In reply to Re: Exercise and depression, posted by noelle on August 6, 2006, at 23:09:03
running on the treadmill for me feels good, while I'm doing it, and gives me more energy and makes it easier to wake up in the morning. LIfting weights makes me feel good that I'm building a better shape and getting stronger. All these factors make me feel bettter, but it's certainly no cure. It's a great coping skill though. Going to the gym is a hobby for me.
Posted by Bob on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:16
In reply to Re: forgot a few items » Bob, posted by Phillipa on August 6, 2006, at 19:36:45
> I am curious and you don't have to reveal of course but what is your age I am 60years old. Love Phillipa
I'm only 38.
Posted by Bob on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:17
In reply to Re: forgot a few items » Bob, posted by Phillipa on August 6, 2006, at 19:36:45
> I am curious and you don't have to reveal of course but what is your age I am 60years old. Love Phillipa
Phillipa, I have to say that the level of activity you engage in is quite impressive for your age. I know all kinds of people half your age and much less that don't do any sort of strenuous physical activity whatsoever.
Posted by Phillipa on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:17
In reply to Re: forgot a few items » Phillipa, posted by Bob on August 7, 2006, at 11:53:11
Bob lucky you!!!!!Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:19
In reply to Re: forgot a few items » Phillipa, posted by Bob on August 7, 2006, at 12:00:20
Bob its the only thing that gives me any worth about myself. I have nothing to do as I had to give up nursing my identity. The only time I feel half-way good about myself if when people say things about me like you did thanks, Love Phillipa
Posted by Bob on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:20
In reply to Re: Exercise and depression, posted by linkadge on August 7, 2006, at 2:05:56
I think there are two basic reasons why exercise has not been a real big benefit to me.
First: I have other problems that are not helped by physical activity, such as obsessive ruminations, anger, and severe anxiety/panic episodes. Although exercise could at times make me feel physically better and slightly more energetic, it didn't address these other issues.
Second: The physical effects of the meds over the years gradually took away my ability to be physically active, what with significant weight gain, muscle weakness, fatigue, sweating and flushing, muscle tension, and an eventual lack of motivation or desire from the SSRIs in particular.
Trust me when I say that before all this I cherished my ability to participate in sports and all physical activities. I was very, very sorry to see it deteriorate away over the years, and then hear those around me say that it was no wonder I am having problems since I'm not physically active. I never thought I'd be the one sitting in the couch.
Posted by Phillipa on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:20
In reply to Re: forgot a few items » Phillipa, posted by Bob on August 7, 2006, at 12:00:20
Bob is I had your e-mail address I'd send you a pic of me. I usally do it through babblemail but you light isn't on . Exchanging addressing. If you chose to go to the registration page and click on yes to babblemail then you name in your posts will be blue and not black. You click on the blue. And babblemail mail appears. See mine is blue. Click on and you can send on to me. Love Phillipa
Posted by Bob on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:21
In reply to Re: forgot a few items » Bob, posted by Phillipa on August 7, 2006, at 12:06:13
> Bob its the only thing that gives me any worth about myself. I have nothing to do as I had to give up nursing my identity. The only time I feel half-way good about myself if when people say things about me like you did thanks, Love Phillipa
Phillipa:
I know what you mean about losing your identity. I am now on disability and no longer have a career. Even though I didn't love my work, I didn't have an adequate sense of how important it was to a sense of self for me. My therapists and loved ones tell me that all that doesn't matter because I'm a "nice guy" and people have a self-worth apart from all that. Agreed, but it's hard to console oneself with that, since to me it seems somewhat abstract.
Posted by noelle on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:21
In reply to Re: Exercise and depression » noelle, posted by linkadge on August 7, 2006, at 2:09:42
Hi there,
I do cardio 4-5 days a week and weights 3 times a week. Over the past two years I have gain about 15 pounds, I'm about 15-20 pounds overweight. I'm on (200)lamictal, lithium(1200, risperdal, and effexor and haven't gained any weight yet, but I can't lose any despite working out like crazy. I have always had dysthimia, major depression but because of my cycling was diagnosed with bipolar depression 11. I have obsessive thoughts severe generalized anxiety, and yes I have a binge and restrict pattern. The meds have brought me halfway out of hell as of the last couple months as well as the exercise I believe.
thats probably way more information then you need
Thanks
Noelle
Posted by linkadge on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:21
In reply to Re: Exercise and depression, posted by nickguy on August 7, 2006, at 11:31:48
>All these factors make me feel bettter, but >it's certainly no cure.
To be fair, antidepressants are no cure either.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:21
In reply to Re: Exercise and depression» Linkage, posted by noelle on August 7, 2006, at 15:41:19
No problem. I can admit that certain meds reduced or eliminated the subjective mood improvement I got from exercise.
Lithium, and depakote made me feel like I weight a kazillion tons, and made exercise a very dysphoric experience.
Linkadge
Posted by Bob on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:21
In reply to Re: Exercise and depression» Linkage, posted by noelle on August 7, 2006, at 15:41:19
> Hi there,
> I do cardio 4-5 days a week and weights 3 times a week. Over the past two years I have gain about 15 pounds, I'm about 15-20 pounds overweight. I'm on (200)lamictal, lithium(1200, risperdal, and effexor and haven't gained any weight yet, but I can't lose any despite working out like crazy. I have always had dysthimia, major depression but because of my cycling was diagnosed with bipolar depression 11. I have obsessive thoughts severe generalized anxiety, and yes I have a binge and restrict pattern. The meds have brought me halfway out of hell as of the last couple months as well as the exercise I believe.
> thats probably way more information then you need
> Thanks
> Noelle
>If you don't mind me asking, what is a "binge and restrict" pattern?
Bob
Posted by Bob on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:21
In reply to Re: forgot a few items, posted by Phillipa on August 7, 2006, at 12:10:20
> Bob is I had your e-mail address I'd send you a pic of me. I usally do it through babblemail but you light isn't on . Exchanging addressing. If you chose to go to the registration page and click on yes to babblemail then you name in your posts will be blue and not black. You click on the blue. And babblemail mail appears. See mine is blue. Click on and you can send on to me. Love Phillipa
I don't really have a pic of me handy right now, but I have activated the babblemail feature.
Posted by noelle on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:21
In reply to Re: Exercise and depression » noelle, posted by Bob on August 7, 2006, at 17:02:05
Like two extremes either eating all day or not eating at all
Posted by arnie666 on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:23
In reply to Re: Exercise and depression-Bob, posted by noelle on August 7, 2006, at 17:15:31
Well Iam can speak from my experience. Exercise helped me stay off medication for certain. I experienced severe anxiety and depression from a body image disorder.
The meds made me put on a huge amount of weight and I became even more depressed and couldn't even get out of bed. I tried four different anitdepressants and two different antipsychotic drugs.My doctor took me off all the meds due to these side effects at my insistance, warning I would relapse within six months.He also stated I would need to on meds for the rest of my life.
Some relapse I have been off meds for well over a year.My secret was forcing myself no matter how rubbish I felt down the gym and going out for long runs. I also experienced drug withdrwal symptoms and could not sleep. Despite that I still made myself do this. My mood felt better within a month and I have kept it up.And also after a couple of months I was sleeping eight hours.
I lost all the weight and feel a million times better. My motivation was staying off those meds and having to see a shrink who was frankly a waste of oxygen.He now has changed the diagnosis to much more minor problem and discharged me. Doctors I sh*t them. !
Posted by Phillipa on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:24
In reply to Re: Exercise and depression-Bob, posted by arnie666 on August 7, 2006, at 18:12:03
Fantastic what will power. Without sleep I'd never be able to do it. But after excercise I always feel better. I say oh no I don't want to but then do. Love Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:25
In reply to Re: Exercise and depression-Bob » arnie666, posted by Phillipa on August 7, 2006, at 19:24:12
Nothing like getting better just to proove the doctors wrong!
Linkadge
Posted by janeB on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:25
In reply to Re: Exercise and depression-Bob, posted by linkadge on August 7, 2006, at 19:42:07
I should be out exercising instead of reading posts and googling. But maybe this link will help someone?
http://www.currentpsychiatry.com/article_pages.asp?AID=763&UID=25953
Posted by Crazy Horse on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:30
In reply to Re: Exercise and depression » Bob, posted by rod on August 5, 2006, at 21:58:42
> >.. on the infrequent occasions when I could, instead of making me feel better, I have some sort of strage rebound type effect that makes my problems significantly worse in the ensuing days, if not immediately. I've never been able to figure out why the counterintuitive effect occurs, seemingly contradicting a large body of evidence and advice I've come across over the years.
>
> Hi Bob!
>
> Well, the same happens to me! All docs etc. tell me to do some exercise, but even mild physical exercise makes me worse. I dont know why! My only guess is that exercise can lower blood pressure, and isnt blood pressure partly controlled by the catecholamines? So maybe it lowers the activity of some of them? just guessing..
>
> Do you sweat easily? I wondered about losing minerals via sweat.. dunno
> I sweat very easily.
>
> I am tapping in the dark here...
>
> anyway
>
> byeTry drinking Gatoraide to replenish your electrolytes. Or at least plenty of water.
Posted by SLS on August 8, 2006, at 11:07:30
In reply to Exercise and depression link, posted by janeB on August 8, 2006, at 9:10:32
> I should be out exercising instead of reading posts and googling. But maybe this link will help someone?
>
> http://www.currentpsychiatry.com/article_pages.asp?AID=763&UID=25953It helps reinforce to me how much the recent advocation of exercise as an antidepressant treatment for Major Depressive Disorder and Bipolar Disorder represents hyperbole. I don't believe it is as globally and potently effective as is sometimes portrayed.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on August 8, 2006, at 20:48:37
In reply to Re: Exercise and depression link, posted by SLS on August 8, 2006, at 9:36:37
Scott may I say that I think your major problem is the depression without insulting You? I hope so. I know how hard you work and research trying to find a med to help . But in my case I am more anxious than depressed and if it rains I go nuts. I pace around, pick my cuticles. When I ride as I said I feel free. For that hour or so my mind sees the World differently. When I wake up in the am I'm negative and feel horrible. I wish I could excercise in the am but after working 3-ll for l5years I'm not wired to. So the evening. But I've noticed that the early rising excercisers seem to have more energy and a more positive outlook. I pray your new med works for you I really do. Love Jan
Posted by SLS on August 9, 2006, at 5:50:05
In reply to Re: Exercise and depression link » SLS, posted by Phillipa on August 8, 2006, at 20:48:37
> But in my case I am more anxious than depressed and if it rains I go nuts. I pace around, pick my cuticles. When I ride as I said I feel free. For that hour or so my mind sees the World differently. When I wake up in the am I'm negative and feel horrible.
This description is a bit more revealing of your condition than what you usually provide. It would be interesting to see how your doctor's suggestion of trying a neuroleptic would have affected you. I would have chosen Zyprexa for maximal therapeutic effect.
- Scott
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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