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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rayww on February 8, 2003, at 0:50:35
Has anyone ever read the Wal*Mart mission statement? It sounds like religion. "We believe that Good. Works". In church a tithing portion goes to humanitarian aid while the rest goes toward building God's empire. In Wal-Mart a tithing amount goes toward community support and the rest to the empire of Wal-Mart.
Do you think our culture will ever be governed by the Wal-Marts among us? Do you think it already is? How many other Wal-Mart type organizations are competing with the church? I mean, I totally respect the mission statement Wal-Mart is built upon, and think all business would do well to have those same ideals, but is it a wolf in sheeps clothing as it tries to convince us of its local community support as it shuts down and dries up small business in its path, and as it employees more people than any other company, yet pays less and deprives its own friendly, smily-face employees of benefits, hours, adequate salaries? Where is the religion in that?It seems to me a wolf in sheeps clothing would be ripping off the producer, consumer, and employee, while convincing all of them of their personal prominance by making them feel as though they are the ones getting the good deal. 5 cents of every dollar may stay in my pocket, but 95 cents is being shipped out from under me and away from my community.
I believe the sheeps clothing is being removed and the wolves are being exposed to the degree that the people in the community are turning to God. Think about it. This isn't about Wal-Mart. It's about turning to God in faith. The world (you and I) must turn to God or else risk..... I believe we can still save the world. You and I, one person at a time. Do you?
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 8, 2003, at 15:00:00
In reply to hello faith, posted by rayww on February 8, 2003, at 0:50:35
rayww,
After reading your post, I am in wonder as to the following:
1)you wrote,[...how many Wal-Mart types are competing with the church?...Wal-Mart supports the community but shuts down small businesses...pays less and deprives employees of benifits...ripping off the consumer, the producer and the employee...95%of each dollar is being shipped away from my community...the wolves are being exposed...the community is turning to God in faith...[you and I must turn to God or else risk...]You also wrote,[...I believe we can still save the world, do you?]. Could you clarify what you mean by,[...save the world...?] If you could, then I could have a better understanding of your post's message and be better able to respond to it.
Lou
Posted by rayww on February 8, 2003, at 23:16:32
In reply to Re: hello faith » rayww, posted by Lou Pilder on February 8, 2003, at 15:00:00
To save the world? Turn to God and keep his commandments. You are kind Lou, if everyone in the world was likewise, there would be no need for war.
In your opinion, what would have power to save the world?
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 9, 2003, at 18:35:12
In reply to Re: hello faith » Lou Pilder, posted by rayww on February 8, 2003, at 23:16:32
rayww,
You wrote,[....people must turn to God {or else risk...}]. Could you clarify what the [risk]is that you are referring to that will occure if one does not abide by what you wrote ,ie;[...must tuurn to God...]? If you could, then I could reply accordingly.
Lou
Posted by rayww on February 10, 2003, at 0:23:14
In reply to Re: hello faith » rayww, posted by Lou Pilder on February 9, 2003, at 18:35:12
> rayww,
> You wrote,[....people must turn to God {or else risk...}]. Could you clarify what the [risk]is that you are referring to that will occure if one does not abide by what you wrote ,ie;[...must tuurn to God...]? If you could, then I could reply accordingly.
> LouLou, I can either ignore your questions and say, "huh, did I write that"? or I can give them an honest answer and risk being banned again. Are you purposely setting me up for another vacation :-) Oh well, here's a bit of an answer.
There are many promised lands, fulfilling the Abrahamic covenant. The American Continent is one of them. A promised land is a land of covenant. Do you know of anyone who came to America or to the isles of the sea who wasn't directed there by providence? New Zealand Maoris, Native Americans, Polynesians, Tongans, Salmoans, part of the house of Israel, descendants of Joseph who was sold into Egypt.My ancestors who came to America from England, Sweden, Denmark, were driven to leave their homelands for the unknown frontier, reasons for which they did not understand at the time.
I would like to know if anyone's ancestors didn't feel compelled or driven to come to America. (evidence of our founding fathers divine providence in the constitution of the United States) From what I have studied without exception, there was an unquenchable desire to come to America. Even African Americans though abused, came here for a reason. It seems as though the melting pots of America have a representation of every nation and race on earth. They're all important. No one is above another. And in the end, all will be under the same obligation to acknowledge God. I'm not sure how to word this so it won't offend the non-believers. Why don't you try Lou?
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 10, 2003, at 8:01:09
In reply to Re: hello faith » Lou Pilder, posted by rayww on February 10, 2003, at 0:23:14
rayww,
you wrote,[...do you know anyone that came to America...who wasn't directed there by providence?...].
Well, there were those that came to America out of greed for riches and plunderd and murdered the original inhabitants and commited genocide.
http://isis.csuhayward.edu/ALSS//soc/NAN/dd/6800sj/slj.htm
If you are saying that the above and the Africans that were brought to America as slaves came by [providence], then could you clarify the definition of "providence"?
Lou
Posted by rayww on February 10, 2003, at 10:44:52
In reply to Re: hello faith » rayww, posted by Lou Pilder on February 10, 2003, at 8:01:09
> rayww,
> you wrote,[...do you know anyone that came to America...who wasn't directed there by providence?...].
> Well, there were those that came to America out of greed for riches and plunderd and murdered the original inhabitants and commited genocide.
> http://isis.csuhayward.edu/ALSS//soc/NAN/dd/6800sj/slj.htm
> If you are saying that the above and the Africans that were brought to America as slaves came by [providence], then could you clarify the definition of "providence"?
> Lou
>
I appreciated the link. I found it of personal interest to read that "The Indian Removal Act began in 1830" the same year the Book of Mormon was published and that church organized.It is difficult to explain providence when such destruction and slavery is the result of it. God moves in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform. If you think of death as the end-all, you may miss the mark. God does not view death as the end, rather a passing from one orchestrated scene to another.
The reformation was born of blood, sweat, and tears, but it set the stage and prepared the soil for the planting of seeds of faith and freedom. (Civil War, etc) http://scriptures.lds.org/query?words=D%26C+101%3A79-80&search.x=17&search.y=11
On Columbus:
http://scriptures.lds.org/1_ne/13/12#12My previous post's reference explains why genocides happen, or why God allows them to happen. I am grounded and strengthened in the fact that my ancestors lived through the LDS extermination order. When I was in Israel I visited the Hollocaust memorial and was taught by our guide that as horrible as it was, it was actually a catalyst, in effecting the return and the gathering.
Providence may be seen in the "hard work" of the reformations and restorations. The teaching of some religions that "if you die for a good cause you are saved" kind of holds true, based on God's definition of good cause.
Lou, I didn't intend to answer your questions. I was only going to say "huh? did I write that?" but I've enjoyed reading and thinking about this today. I feel better in a day after I have spent a few minutes reading scriptures. Do you?
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 10, 2003, at 15:46:25
In reply to Re: hello faith » Lou Pilder, posted by rayww on February 10, 2003, at 10:44:52
rayww,
You wrote,[...the reformation...]
Could you clarify what you are referring to when you wrote, [...the reformation...]?
If you could, then I could be better able to reply to your post.
Lou
Posted by noa on February 10, 2003, at 17:55:31
In reply to hello faith, posted by rayww on February 8, 2003, at 0:50:35
I can't say about Wal-Mart per se, as I know nothing about the company ethics, but often good works is also good for business. It seems like Wal-Mart also does a lot of this work along with the advertising that highlights it, to try to override the image of the big "box store" that puts little main-street stores out of business. But it is kind of hard to see a huge chain as a local community endeavor, imho. I think Walmart serves a purpose, though for a lot of people who count on low-cost household items, clothes, etc.
I think there are some companies who really do keep community needs as one of their priorities. I love the story about the mill in Massachusetts with the owner who treats his employees very well and when it burned down, he kept them on payroll as long as he could and then rebuilt. He was profiled on 60 minutes--I think his name is Feurstein?--and they showed him and his wife living in their rather modest apartment. The guy's hobby is reading and memorizing poetry! (no jet setting yachts or anything) Problem is, he is getting old, and who knows what will happen with a company like that. I think it was entirely privately owned, not a publicly traded company, which is where a lot of the greedy shady business seems to be happening in recent years. Last night's 60 minutes told the story of Montana Power which really screwed their employees, customers and shareholders to the benefit of a few top executives and the stock brokerage firm that convinced them to go out of the power business, which they were successful at, and into telecom, which they are failing at.
Posted by rayww on February 10, 2003, at 19:07:05
In reply to Re: hello faith, posted by noa on February 10, 2003, at 17:55:31
What a contrast in feelings of self worth! Feurstein lifts while Montana oppresses. Maybe depression can be lifted by how we treat one another.
Posted by rayww on February 10, 2003, at 19:15:20
In reply to Re: hello faith » rayww, posted by Lou Pilder on February 10, 2003, at 15:46:25
> rayww,
> You wrote,[...the reformation...]
> Could you clarify what you are referring to when you wrote, [...the reformation...]?
> If you could, then I could be better able to reply to your post.
> LouReformation: : a 16th century religious movement marked ultimately by rejection or modification of some Roman Catholic doctrine and practice and establishment of the Protestant churches
Do you think the Civil War had anything to do with the reformation? Is oppression a form of slavery? On a tour of Mexico City we learned about oppression.
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 10, 2003, at 19:58:25
In reply to Re: hello faith » Lou Pilder, posted by rayww on February 10, 2003, at 19:15:20
rayww,
You wrote,[...do you think that the Civil War had anything to do with the reformation?...]
The causes of the American Civil War (1860-1865) are a subject in and of itself. But as to a connection with the Reformation in the 1500's, are you saying that [Rebellion] is a common denominator? If so, then that would be a topic of great debate.
Lou
Posted by rayww on February 10, 2003, at 20:19:41
In reply to Re: hello faith » rayww, posted by Lou Pilder on February 10, 2003, at 19:58:25
Good point you raise about rebellion being a common denominator in reformation and restoration.
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 10, 2003, at 20:26:39
In reply to Re: hello faith » Lou Pilder, posted by rayww on February 10, 2003, at 20:19:41
rayww,
[...All we like sheep have gone astray; {we have turned evryone to his own way}...]
Lou
Posted by rayww on February 11, 2003, at 11:40:50
In reply to Re: hello faith » rayww, posted by Lou Pilder on February 10, 2003, at 20:26:39
Cool. You lead me to some intersting study.
http://scriptures.lds.org/query?words=+turned+to+his+own+way&search.x=27&search.y=11
(or were you trying to tell me something(:-)
Posted by coral on February 12, 2003, at 17:35:05
In reply to hello faith, posted by rayww on February 8, 2003, at 0:50:35
Dear Rayww,
Amen (no pun intended) to your post. There are horror stories that back up your contentions. Personally, I do not shop at Wal-Mart on principle.
Coral
Posted by rayww on February 13, 2003, at 11:40:19
In reply to Re: hello faith, posted by coral on February 12, 2003, at 17:35:05
> Dear Rayww,
>
> Amen (no pun intended) to your post. There are horror stories that back up your contentions. Personally, I do not shop at Wal-Mart on principle.
>
> CoralI appreciate any store's low cut prices, but as a producer of both beef and another comodity, I do not agree with Wal-Mart's 90-day payment policy.
The super-city-powers are beginning to dictate how agriculture is managed. If I was raising chickens I could have no more than 5 in a cage in order to sell to MacDonalds. We have animal activists, enviornment crusaders, city (slickers?) who think they know how to run feed lots, but what no one really stops to think about is, you don't have to drive very far in the country to realize that cities are only tiny dots in the vast expanse of something.
I don't know of any land around here that isn't owned or managed by someone. Agriculture is in trouble because of the super powers and empires of the cities.
What does this have to do with PBF?
Nothing, except that sometimes these issues become like religious beliefs.proud to be a country folk and hope we are able to carry over into the next generation.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 14, 2003, at 0:27:22
In reply to how far do we dare roll with this one?, posted by rayww on February 13, 2003, at 11:40:19
> What does this have to do with PBF?
> Nothing, except that sometimes these issues become like religious beliefs.Well, I'd like discussion about issues that are only *like* religious beliefs to be redirected to Psycho-Social-Babble, thanks. :-)
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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