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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mandy on October 6, 2002, at 12:32:44
I have been Catholic all my life and pretty faithful. Have struggled with depression for about last 11 years, but last six months have been awful and I am now dx as bipolar II. My meds are starting to work and I am feeling a bit better, but I find it hard to make myself go to the mass. I still believe in God and Jesus, but somehow I feel like I am just going through the motions when I am at church. And yet, I desperately miss that sense of peace that I would receive when getting the Holy Eucharist. I am so confused and feel very guilty for not going to church. My husband is Presbyterian and goes faithfully every Sunday and I sit at home and beat myself up because I feel like I have turned into a heathen. I do not know why I have these feelings and any insight would be helpful.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 6, 2002, at 13:51:15
In reply to I have lost my faith--need support please, posted by Mandy on October 6, 2002, at 12:32:44
Mandy,
Your subject line says that you
1) have lost your faith
2) need support---please
I would like to be of any help to you so that you could regain your faith
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 6, 2002, at 14:16:54
In reply to I have lost my faith--need support please, posted by Mandy on October 6, 2002, at 12:32:44
Mandy,
In your post , you say that you have srugguled with depression for the past 11 years, with the last 6 months being awful.
I want you to know that I understand what this length of time in depression can be like, particulary when you state that the last 6 months has been awful. I know what *awful* depresson is in relation to the other type of depression that you had before the last 6 months. It sounds like you are describing a similar situation that I was once in , because I also experianced an *awful * depression that was different than other depression. I beleive that your post here describing your situation, and your asking for support, is a sign that you can overcome your depression for you explain that you are looking for helpful insight.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 6, 2002, at 14:44:59
In reply to I have lost my faith--need support please, posted by Mandy on October 6, 2002, at 12:32:44
Mandy,
You say that you have a religious affiliation and that you feel that you are only going through the motions in your services and that you miss the peace that was once there in a part of the service.
Let me say that I experianced something like you are describing, also. I beleive that this is a good sign at this time, for you say that you remember the peace that you once had and would like it restored, for you say that you desparatly miss it.
It has been revealed to me in an experiance that I had that even some of the ancient beleivers experianced what you are describing. Some were so depressed that they asked God to take their life and later had their joy restored. So the point that I am making here is that those with faith can be awfully depressed and have their joy restored.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on October 6, 2002, at 14:59:06
In reply to I have lost my faith--need support please, posted by Mandy on October 6, 2002, at 12:32:44
Mandy, Please don't be upset with yourself over this. For one thing, psych meds can sometimes have a flattening effect on your emotions. Also, I think no one's faith remains constant all the time.
If your faith life is important to you, I would keep working at recapturing that spirit. There are various retreats offered, from contemplative to the new charismatic ones, in the Catholic church. One of those might help you in your quest. Also if your priest is a good and empathetic one, he can also help you. And sometimes just going through the motions can lead to moments of what you used to feel. You don't need to wait to feel what you should feel to do the actions. Sometimes doing the actions help with the feelings.
I have this problem as well at times. While I always have a strong intellectual faith, I am not so strong in experiencing my faith. But there are moments when a song will move me, or the sermon or sunday school lesson will be just what I need to hear, or moments that have no discernible cause, when I really feel God's presence in my life.
I think that religious committment and marriage are a lot alike. There are times when you just don't feel the way you think you should feel. But sometimes if you act "as if" you had the feelings, eventually some feelings will come.
How long have you been having trouble feeling God's spirit at Mass?
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 6, 2002, at 15:17:31
In reply to I have lost my faith--need support please, posted by Mandy on October 6, 2002, at 12:32:44
Mandy,
You say that you feel guilty not going to church and that you do not know why you have those feelings.
Without having you explain what guilt means to you, the general understnding of guilt is that when someone has guilt about something, they feel that they have done something wrong andare usualy sorry for doing it. In your post, it appears that what you are having guilt about is that you are not assembleing yourself with others of your religion on Sunday. But it also appears to me that it is the depression that makes you not want to attend the services , for you say that the depression makes it hard for you to attend because you feel that you are only going through motions when you are at church.
Mandy, I have to stop to ask you a question, for if I get the answer, then I will better understand what you ave posted and I will be able to better give you my response to your request for support.
Are you saying that it is the depression that makes you feel that you are only going through motions, or are you saying that you have lost a lot of your faith, even though you believe in God and Jesus, and thearfore you are depressed?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 6, 2002, at 16:51:27
In reply to I have lost my faith--need support please, posted by Mandy on October 6, 2002, at 12:32:44
Mandy,
After reading your post, and without knowing more, I can offer the following insight that you have requested.
It has been revealed to me in an experiance that I had that guilt was cast out of my being after I forgave others. And I forgave myself also. In my experiance, it was revealed to me that God promises to forgive those that forgive others and also forgive themselves.
I was told by The Word of God ,"For the Lord is good, and ready to forgive, and plenteous in mercy unto all those that call upon Him. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven."
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 6, 2002, at 17:12:20
In reply to I have lost my faith--need support please, posted by Mandy on October 6, 2002, at 12:32:44
Mandy,
After I was forgiven, because I forgave myself and others, I was "being chased" by the thoughts that were causing me guilt. It was further reveled to me in my experiance that the "thoughts that were chasing me" had to be delt with so that the were "swallowed by the sea". And the way that was revealed to me to have this accomplished was by what the Word of God said to me. He said to me, "Whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report, if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, Think on These Things.
Those things that you have both learned and received, and heard, and seen in me, Do, and the God of Peace shall be with you."
Lou
Posted by Mandy on October 7, 2002, at 13:27:34
In reply to Re: I have lost my faith--need support please » Mandy, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2002, at 14:59:06
> Mandy, Please don't be upset with yourself over this. For one thing, psych meds can sometimes have a flattening effect on your emotions. Also, I think no one's faith remains constant all the time.
>
> If your faith life is important to you, I would keep working at recapturing that spirit. There are various retreats offered, from contemplative to the new charismatic ones, in the Catholic church. One of those might help you in your quest. Also if your priest is a good and empathetic one, he can also help you. And sometimes just going through the motions can lead to moments of what you used to feel. You don't need to wait to feel what you should feel to do the actions. Sometimes doing the actions help with the feelings.
>
> I have this problem as well at times. While I always have a strong intellectual faith, I am not so strong in experiencing my faith. But there are moments when a song will move me, or the sermon or sunday school lesson will be just what I need to hear, or moments that have no discernible cause, when I really feel God's presence in my life.
>
> I think that religious committment and marriage are a lot alike. There are times when you just don't feel the way you think you should feel. But sometimes if you act "as if" you had the feelings, eventually some feelings will come.
>
> How long have you been having trouble feeling God's spirit at Mass?It has been for almost this whole year that I only rarely go to Mass. Some of it is that while I love the Catholic faith, I think they have been so hypocritical and given mixed messages to those of us who grew up in the 50's. But it is more than that. I feel not worthy right now and a lot of other feelings that I just cannot seem to describe. But because I grew up in the 50's not going to church was a major sin and while I still do not believe that I suffer from major guilt anyway
Posted by Mandy on October 7, 2002, at 13:34:22
In reply to Lou's response to Mandy's post-part 4, posted by Lou Pilder on October 6, 2002, at 15:17:31
> Mandy,
> You say that you feel guilty not going to church and that you do not know why you have those feelings.
> Without having you explain what guilt means to you, the general understnding of guilt is that when someone has guilt about something, they feel that they have done something wrong andare usualy sorry for doing it. In your post, it appears that what you are having guilt about is that you are not assembleing yourself with others of your religion on Sunday. But it also appears to me that it is the depression that makes you not want to attend the services , for you say that the depression makes it hard for you to attend because you feel that you are only going through motions when you are at church.
> Mandy, I have to stop to ask you a question, for if I get the answer, then I will better understand what you ave posted and I will be able to better give you my response to your request for support.
> Are you saying that it is the depression that makes you feel that you are only going through motions, or are you saying that you have lost a lot of your faith, even though you believe in God and Jesus, and thearfore you are depressed?
> Lou
>I do not know how to respond to you. I am depressed but I have been depressed before and went to church. Maybe what it is is that I am angry with God--I know it is not his fault that I have had one trial after another in may life- yet still I am angry. I still wish I had died when I attempeted suicide in May, and if it is so important that I stay around because God has something else for me to do, then I just wish HE would show me the way. I am tired of all this blundering about. Whew--did not realize how much anger I really do have.
Posted by Dinah on October 7, 2002, at 16:00:05
In reply to Re: I have lost my faith--need support please, posted by Mandy on October 7, 2002, at 13:27:34
It sounds as though your problem is more complex than it might appear, as is usually the case. Again, I guess the first thing is to decide whether you want to re-establish your faith life. If it is important to you, but you have complex feelings about the church and about God, perhaps a pastoral counselor can help you work through them, much as a marriage counselor would help you work through your problems with a spouse.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do. An intimate connection with God can be a wonderful source of strength. I'm not really the emotional sort, and I don't often "feel" that intimate connection. But I find a certain amount of comfort and peace in my commitment to God, and I think I would find it worth fighting for.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 7, 2002, at 18:12:11
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Mandy's post-part 4, posted by Mandy on October 7, 2002, at 13:34:22
Mandy,
I am glad that you responded. You mention "one trial after another" in your life and it makes you angry.
I also have had trials. In my experiance that I have been describing here, it was revealed to me that a pearl is a result of the oyster's system secreting a protective covering over an irritant that has found its way through it's shell and irritating the delicate membrane.
In my experiance, I was taken to the City where God dwells, and the Gates were gigantic pearls. I was told there that the pearls were a symbol to remind us of the suffering of God.
Lou
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