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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 21, 2011, at 10:43:46
Ok, now that I am actually on Rx meds (starting lamictal, so at 25mg, 0.25 alazopram 2-4x/day, 10mg ambien before bed)
I was taking Planetary's Bupleurum Liver Cleanse, Vitex, and Shisandra adrenal Complex...along w/ a good multi vit and B6.
Doc wants to stop the herbals incase they have any outside reactions w meds. I'd like to stay on some sort of liver and kidney support at least since these drugs, I think, tend to weaken these organs from having to process everything.
What is your opinion? What would you supplement with?
Posted by Lao Tzu on January 21, 2011, at 13:36:24
In reply to Herbals/vitamins/Rx's...how to balance?..., posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 21, 2011, at 10:43:46
Definitely check for any herbal-drug interactions before using the herbals with medication. Hombre has suggestions about using Chinese Medicine for Liver and Kidney, but I would use caution about taking anything that affects the metabolism of the liver when you're using medication. Definitely take your doctor's advice if he thinks that you could run into problems using the herbals.
Lao
Posted by Lao Tzu on January 21, 2011, at 13:40:01
In reply to Herbals/vitamins/Rx's...how to balance?..., posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 21, 2011, at 10:43:46
Also, I take a lot of medication including Lamictal. I don't use herbals except for ginger for my GERD, but I do take a lot of vitamins and minerals and some essential fatty acids, and I don't seem to have a problem using the nutrients, not herbals though. In a way, the vitamins will, overall, help keep all of your organs healthy. You may not need herbals unless you are having specific symptoms in a particular organ. Refer more about this from Hombre. He seems like the resident expert on the herbals.
Lao
Posted by morgan miller on January 21, 2011, at 23:31:19
In reply to Re: Herbals/vitamins/Rx's...how to balance?..., posted by Lao Tzu on January 21, 2011, at 13:36:24
It depends on exactly what liver enzyme the herbs, supplements, and medications you take. If you take an herb that is metabolized by a different liver enzyme than the enzyme or enzymes your medication is metabolized by, you should be perfectly fine.
I have taken tons of supplements and herbs with my medications I do not think I've had any problems. You also have to consider how strongly the supplement impacts the specific enzyme. If the impact is very weak, and your medication also impacts the same enzyme, you should be fine.
Maybe the best thing to do is to stop all supplements for now, do some research, then reintroduce the supplements you are sure will not impact your medication. Personally, unless something you are taken strongly affects neurotransmitters, I think it's just fine to mix with your medication.
I take a few things that support liver and maybe kidneys as well-milk thistle(definitely good for kidneys), phosphatidyl choline(enhances the absorption of milk thistle as well as being good for liver health), and schisandra)
BD, what is your plan for xanax and ambien? I was put on these drugs at one point and they really were not helpful in the long run. I feel like these drugs are over prescribed by doctors and other measures should be taken-it's the quick fix the drug approach, not a very good one IMO. One thing these drugs do not do is stabilize someone. Sure Ambien helps someone get to sleep, but just like other hypnotics, it doesn't improve sleep quality, same goes for benzos.
Morgan
Posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 22, 2011, at 0:20:21
In reply to Re: Herbals/vitamins/Rx's...how to balance?..., posted by morgan miller on January 21, 2011, at 23:31:19
Absolutely agree about the benzos and ambien...right now, it's kind of being used as a band aid, I think. Basically, I asked him for something to help with my low mood and severe social anxiety right away because I will be put into a very stressful situation next week, which will continue until April. The Lamictal is going to take a while to build up in my system to be effective...and the ambien is to help me sleep. As it is I have a hard time getting to bed at a reasonable hour, but if I make myself take it at 10...(which I have been pretty consistent at) I basically have no choice but to go to sleep. My plan with the ambien, though, is to use it to get myself on a good sleep/wake schedule and then wean off of it. I am fairly certain I can do that. I am already feeling a good bit better because I am getting more sleep, and the xanax really helps me with stress. Had NO idea I was THIS stressed and constantly worried, until I took the xanax and wasn't spinning...plus the fog is lifting considerably. I do definitely have issues with ADD, but I have to tell you, even as I am typing now...I don't feel like I flying off in a million different directions like I was before. Doc said we'll deal with stabilizing mood first then deal with the ADD. (I test off the charts)
For me though, I want to find a good balance FIRST and then ultimately maintain on as little med as needed to keep that balance. That is the end goal.
Posted by Hombre on January 23, 2011, at 5:20:53
In reply to Herbals/vitamins/Rx's...how to balance?..., posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 21, 2011, at 10:43:46
There is no easy answer to this question, and the most important thing is that you get balanced/stable and work from there.
As useful as it would be to do the research, there really isn't much research into the interactions between herbal formulas and drugs. I've looked, and aside from some issues with blood thinners and other non-psyche drugs there doesn't seem to be much evidence that typical herbal formulas will cause adverse reactions along with psyche meds. Traditional herbal formulas are self-balancing to an extent; some herbs will be there to take the edge off of some of the stronger herbs. There's a real elegance to the design of traditional formulas, and a good herbalist will also know how to modify formulas to fit your needs.
I wouldn't worry about the liver/kidney thing for now. Most people do fine taking psyche drugs, and as long as you do not have liver or kidney disease you shouldn't have to worry. It's more important to get back to basics: sleep, food, and breathing (exercise/deep relaxation). If people would just be disciplined with these three things, they'd see a lot more consistency to their responses to medications and the ups and downs of life.
Now Liver and Kidney from a TCM perspective is different, but it'll be easier to find your optimum dosages of your psyche meds and then tweak things with herbs later. You don't want to have to try to fix everything or think of everything all at once. One thing at a time, no rush. Get stable, then maybe you won't need herbs. Most people don't.
Good luck.
Posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 23, 2011, at 10:28:50
In reply to Re: Herbals/vitamins/Rx's...how to balance?..., posted by Hombre on January 23, 2011, at 5:20:53
Thanks Hombre...good advice...I do tend to want everything fixed right away...even better if it was yesterday! LOL I'll give it time...and start exercising more! I believe if I started doing some daily, morning exercise to get going it would help greatly. Just hard right now b/c it is soooo cold outside, and if I am going to exercise I would much rather be outside experiencing nature. One thing I have noticed is that I have started better food choices, both conciously and unconciously. Not sure if that is med realated at all, but I find myself reaching for fruit and nuts all the time, and have been making a morning "power smoothie" consistenetly which really seems to help (banana, blueberries, honey, greek yogurt, almond milk, cocoa pwder, and chia seeds). Cravings for high amounts of sugar that used to be incessant are almost nil. Figure that one out! lol
I hope things go well for you in Asia. Are you pursuing your passion there? Feel free to babble mail anytime if you need a lift or a vent. It is really good to hear from you :o)
Kate
Posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 23, 2011, at 11:01:53
In reply to Re: Herbals/vitamins/Rx's...how to balance?..., posted by Lao Tzu on January 21, 2011, at 13:40:01
Thanks Lao,
I think I am going to look for a liquid trace mineral formulation (I belive they probably help in vitamins working/absorbing more effectively) and try to add more leafy greens to my diet...think that would help anyone regardless of health issues.
Posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 23, 2011, at 11:07:55
In reply to Re: Herbals/vitamins/Rx's...how to balance?..., posted by morgan miller on January 21, 2011, at 23:31:19
Yes, I read that about benzo's, didn't know that it applied also to Ambien.
I do try to take it by 10 PM so that I have ample sleep, but read that taking benzos (especially close to sleep) disrupt the REM cycle. So, I do not take any of the xanax after 7 PM.
Do you know of any supplements that could possibly enhance the quality of sleep? would melatonin do it? or something else?? maybe magnesium? or would that mess up the balance of what I am already taking?
Posted by morgan miller on January 23, 2011, at 13:45:02
In reply to Re: Herbals/vitamins/Rx's...how to balance?... » Hombre, posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 23, 2011, at 10:28:50
>if I am going to exercise I would much rather be outside experiencing nature.
I understand this and a lot of people feel the same way and struggle with exercising during the winter months for this reason.
But, if you can get to the point of liking going to the gym, you might be much better off in the long run as you would not be as restricted in getting some much needed exercise. Maybe once you get settled in a place you know you are going to be at for a while(maybe you already are) and have the money, you could find a nice gym you are comfortable at. A good gym can offer so many things that can make it easier to get the kind of exercise that benefits mood and anxiety.
Posted by morgan miller on January 23, 2011, at 14:40:44
In reply to ...for sleep quality... » morgan miller, posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 23, 2011, at 11:07:55
The thing about Ambien is that it is a hypnotic, it does not really do anything to the mind and body that enhances sleep quality. Ambien has been given to people that were in a mostly vegetative state for years and were miraculously brought out of that state. Cases of this have been reported world wide. Anderson Cooper did a segment on one patient that experienced this when he was doing 60 minutes.
I think melatonin can be very effective, subtle sometimes, but effective. Magnesium can be helpful too(just stay away from the oxide form, it's not as well absorbed as the rest). I don't think either of these or any other sleep aid will have any effect on your meds. Ashwagandha and Bacopa could possibly interact in some way as they may impact certain neurotransmitters. Magnesium, melatonin, and amino acids like tryptophan and glycine effect neurotransmitters, but I believe in a subtle and more supportive way. Thing is, ambien effects GABA, a neurotransmitter, so it could conceivably interact with your meds as well. Many meds impact GABA receptors, just in different ways. Many times the suppmements or medications we take that all effect neurotransmitters compliment eachother. In the beginning of treatment, and throughout treatment, doctors are more concerned about treating the symptoms and stabilizing a patient more than how each drug may be interacting with each other. If the patient feels better and is stable, this is the priority. Besides, they know exactly what is going on with each medication, if they really thought there was an issue, they would, at least hopefully, do something about it. I think serotonin syndrome is one of the main concerns with doctors. I wish doctors had extensive knowledge of herbs and supplements, I think they would be fine with their patients taking a lot alternative treatments with their medications. I just find it funny that they mix all sorts of medications with their patients' treatment but always advice their patients to not mix herbs and supplements with their medications. If it were not for all the research that was done on fish oil omega 3s and all the evidence of potential benefits, doctors might be saying to their patients to be careful about supplementing with them. This is just one example I can think of. Sorry for the ramble.
Often times people use a sleep cocktail of 3 or 4 or more different herbs and supplements to help them sleep. You may see many of these well known herb and supplement remedies put together in sleep formulations by supplement companies. Here's a list of what I know to be helpful for sleep and maybe you can do a little research on them.
Melatonin-I prefer a 6 or 8 hour timed release version
Magnesium-Glycinate form may be best
Glycine-inhibitory amino acid-improves deep sleep
Lemon Balm
Passion Flower
Scullcap
Theanine-amino acid found in green tea-Jarrow and other brands sell the patented and and maybe superior SunTheanine form
Ashwagandha-Sensoril may be the best form-it's sold by several supplement companies. Himalaya and Avesta also sell good Ashwagandha's.
Bacopa-TheraVeda makes a good Bacopa supplement for sleep
Posted by Hombre on January 25, 2011, at 6:35:58
In reply to Re: Herbals/vitamins/Rx's...how to balance?..., posted by morgan miller on January 23, 2011, at 13:45:02
Good gyms will also offer lots of interesting fitness, yoga, kickboxing, and pilates classes, among others. It's easier to show up for a class and follow a group. You'll develop some comraderie and maybe even make some new friends. Or you might now even need to join a gym if you think a short intro to something like yoga, tai chi, or pilates might suit you better. Sometimes the whole gym thing turns people off because of the perceived gym culture, but the ability to take a variety of classes is something that a gym membership could offer.
Posted by morgan miller on January 25, 2011, at 14:10:25
In reply to Re: Herbals/vitamins/Rx's...how to balance?..., posted by Hombre on January 25, 2011, at 6:35:58
>Good gyms will also offer lots of interesting fitness, yoga, kickboxing, and pilates classes, among others. It's easier to show up for a class and follow a group. You'll develop some comraderie and maybe even make some new friends. Or you might now even need to join a gym if you think a short intro to something like yoga, tai chi, or pilates might suit you better. Sometimes the whole gym thing turns people off because of the perceived gym culture, but the ability to take a variety of classes is something that a gym membership could offer.
My thoughts exactly. Gym culture is not what it used to be. With improved anxiety/depression symptoms and sense of well being from medications, you will hopefully be able to enjoy being in the gym setting.
This is the end of the thread.
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