![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Chan Fook on November 9, 2010, at 11:04:50
Hi guys,
I have decided to try an alternative concoction to defeat (primarily speaking for this board) my relatively heavy anxiety and mild depression, as well as other smaller issues (behavioral addictions and a low sex drive).
They are:
- 10mg of Manganese (2x5mg)
- 600mg of Ashwagandha (2x300mg)
- 50mg of 5-HTP (1x50mg)
- 600mg of NAC (1x600mg)
- 300mg of Magnesium (3x100mg)Now I've looked and looked and I can't see any supplement that might contradict or conflict with any of them, but just in case I have, have any of you experimented with the above and would any of them conflict? Another drug not included is caffeine but I'm supposing that won't have a negative effect on me in combination with these.
Beforehand, I have taken 5-htp which has seemed to have a good effect for depression but very little towards my anxiety (if at all, I think it has done the opposite slightly). Also on a higher dose (100mg) I seem to get more anxious and also get pretty bad nightmares (anxiety related ones, hard to explain but I can if anyone wants me to expand on it), but it does help me relax at 50mg so I will continue taking it at that dosage.
Tonight I am going to try the combination of Manganese, 5-htp, NAC and magnesium first, as I want to leave the herbal remedy separate from the others as it might have an adverse effect since I've never taken it before.
Any thoughts? I'll keep progress on how I am doing.
P.S. the "to" in the subject should be "for" but I ran out of space to write it, hopefully that will cure any misconception as if I am trying to impose those problems on myself!
Chan Fook.
Posted by Christ_empowered on November 10, 2010, at 2:16:58
In reply to Five-Way Concoction to Mild Depression and Anxiety, posted by Chan Fook on November 9, 2010, at 11:04:50
hey. I take a bunch of supplements...none that are also on your list, except the alpha lipoic acid. I take 600mgs 2x daily, based on a small study I saw that used 1200mgs (in 2 doses) to try to curb weight gain in schizophrenic patients treated with atypical antipsychotics. The study was very small, but they noted good results, so I've been copying their dosing. So far, so good.
Posted by Chan Fook on November 10, 2010, at 9:03:03
In reply to Re: Five-Way Concoction to Mild Depression and Anxiety, posted by Christ_empowered on November 10, 2010, at 2:16:58
Hi Christ_Empowered,
I'm a newbie so I don't know what everyone is suffering from. What are you trying to treat yourself for, and what are you taking, and is it successful to an extent that you are happy with the medicine?
Chan Fook.
Posted by Christ_empowered on November 10, 2010, at 16:42:41
In reply to Re: Five-Way Concoction to Mild Depression and Anxiety, posted by Chan Fook on November 10, 2010, at 9:03:03
I have Bipolar I. I take a medication (Abilify), but I also take a lot of supplements. So far, so good--I'm calmer, happier, and feel better than before I started taking the supplements.
Posted by Chan Fook on November 10, 2010, at 23:20:53
In reply to Re: Five-Way Concoction to Mild Depression and Anxiety, posted by Christ_empowered on November 10, 2010, at 16:42:41
NAC, one of the supplements on my list, in fact is used for bipolar in some cases, I'm on it at the moment and cannot report any side effects as of yet and I believe it is very harmless.
Posted by Chan Fook on November 12, 2010, at 20:40:04
In reply to Five-Way Concoction to Mild Depression and Anxiety, posted by Chan Fook on November 9, 2010, at 11:04:50
Just a quick update a few days in, my anxiety seems to have lessened indeed, and I do not really feel depressed (although I didn't much in the first place), although there is a certain feeling of motivation that I didn't have before.
To the other smaller issues, there hasn't been much of an impact but I'm a big believer in time taking it's course (toll).
I'm considering adding a betablocker as well just temporarily but I'm unsure if it will be good with 2 (semi-) sedative supplements as it is.
Posted by Lao Tzu on November 17, 2010, at 13:31:58
In reply to Re: Five-Way Concoction to Mild Depression and Anxiety, posted by Christ_empowered on November 10, 2010, at 16:42:41
Yes, 5htp could cause some anxiety at higher dosages much like SSRIs do when you first take them. Over time, I think, the anxiety will lessen as your body adjusts. Why the NAC? The problem I had with it is it affected my sleep, even at 600mg per day. Current use of NAC is possibly for Bipolar. There have been some studies done that it may be effective for Bipolar depression, but it takes a long time to go into effect. Interesting, though. Ashwaghanda might actually be helpful for your anxiety as well as help with sleep. Magnesium is definitely helpful for anxiety and depression, but in my experience, it is not enough. Vitamin B6 could be added to the magnesium to help with anxiety. It seems to help with my suspicious thoughts of other people, i.e. paranoia.
Lao
Posted by Chan Fook on November 23, 2010, at 8:39:42
In reply to Re: Five-Way Concoction to Mild Depression and Anxiety, posted by Lao Tzu on November 17, 2010, at 13:31:58
Hi there,
Sorry haven't posted in a while. Thank you for mentioning that about NAC. I take it because it apparently helps with behavioral addictions although I do not see myself becoming better (my sex drive has sort of increased so it's difficult to resist a stronger urge).
What happened to your sleep when you took NAC? I have recently developed a terrible insomnia and I seem to only be able to sleep finally in the mornings (I think it's been 3am/7am/6am respectively these last 3 days) although I can sleep well though.
I think I'm dosing incorrectly, I have been taking it in the evening which might be the cause, but considering I take now 2x50mg of 5-HTP and 1x300mg ashwagandha I thought it'd make me drowzy, but literally the NAC has a ridiculous impact to make me very alert (I drink caffeine in the mornings when I wake up but not 5/6 hours before bedtime). If this is the case, I'll have to see if I should take it later.
About B6, in my routine I think I have 3x5mg as they are in my 5-htp supplement, how much did you take and how where the effects?
Now, about the efficiency of what I intended to achieve. I find that in good circumstances, if I have no pressure from my studies on a good day, my anxiety is lessened to a great degree and I do not feel depressed. I can easily talk to others, and my confidence has definitely boosted. I think possibly one side effect is that my concentration may have possibly been lowered, but that might be on my end a problem and not a side effect.
But negatives, like mentioned earlier I get horrible insomnia. And this isn't just staying up all night. I think it was the day before yesterday I felt like I was going insane, and out of touch from reality because I had so screwed up my sleeping pattern. I believe I was nearly entering psychosis but god knows I have no idea how it feels like I've never been admitted to a hospital because of it. I sometimes get nausea when I take ashwagandha (worked out from elimination) but I do not feel too sick, it just becomes apparent for an hour or two, but nothing major.
Also, I'd like to note if I have had an extremely stressful day, I will usually be more anxious and paranoid, although depression doesn't seem to be an issue (or I'm not aware of it, it might be mild). I am also looking into yoga for muscle relaxation because I have very tensed muscles. Furthermore, I would like to experiment with wellbutrin/buspar and propanolol in combination with the supplements I'm taking but I haven't decided if I want to or not.
What else to say.. I think I've pushed my magnesium intake to about 400-500mg a day, depends on how I feel. I'll tell my new schedule
Morning:
1x5mg Manganese
1x600mg NAC
2x100mg Magnesium
1x300mg Ashwagandha
1x50mg 5-HTP (includes 5mg B6 and 25mg magnesium)Evening:
1x5mg Manganese
2x100mg Magnesium
1x300mg Ashwagandha
2x50mg 5-HTP
Posted by sigismund on November 23, 2010, at 12:08:54
In reply to Re: Five-Way Concoction to Mild Depression and Anxiety, posted by Chan Fook on November 23, 2010, at 8:39:42
You know how they say you should take VitC with NAC?
Something to do with preventing it from becoming a pro-oxidant.
Posted by Lao Tzu on November 23, 2010, at 15:04:00
In reply to Re: Five-Way Concoction to Mild Depression and Anxiety, posted by Chan Fook on November 23, 2010, at 8:39:42
What I find about B6 is that it helps with anxiety and to some degree depression. About 100mg per day would probably do you fine. It's worth looking into. Very good vitamin to take each day. What has helped me with sleep is to take 500mg of a very good magnesium supplement (say, magnesium citrate or glycinate) plus a good chelated calcium supplement, also around 500mg. That way, you get a 1:1 ratio of calcium to magnesium and this does go a long way to improving sleep in a lot of people. I can't say for sure what the exact dosages of calcium/magnesium will help you, but I find that magnesium alone (taken at bedtime) is not sufficient for sleep. You really need to take an equal portion of calcium as well. That's been my experience. Also, a little melatonin each night may improve your sleep. I take only 1mg at bedtime. For me, the melatonin alone doesn't work well. You need to address other deficiencies like the magnesium and calcium along with other potentially beneficial nutrients.
As far as the NAC, I don't know the chemistry of why it disturbed my sleep. It just interfered with a restful sleep, and I guess some people aren't affected by it in that way. I just never liked it. I almost felt as if it made my depression worse. But I am a special case. Look at the basics first. Are you deficient in any B vitamins. Those are very important. B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, folic acid, B12. Sometimes, if you are deficient in any of the B vitamins, you may not sleep as well. It's difficult to know why you have insomnia. The stress from school is definitely a factor. I know. I had problems when I was in college many years ago. My problem was that I was bipolar and I didn't even know it and wasn't even diagnosed until years later. The problem with mental illness is that it usually isn't diagnosed until symptoms are severe. There's no blood test for it like other illnesses. The question you have to ask yourself is, Am I stable enough to function in everyday life, or is something about myself troubling me? If you're troubled by symptoms that don't seem to resolve naturally, then look for reasons why they might be happening to you. Maybe it's as simple as being stressed out from your studies. Maybe it's something else in your life that hasn't been resolved. I remember when I was in college, the bipolar wasn't so severe and I was actually able to sleep very well despite the stress. Today, however, sleep is an issue for me, but since I've been using the vitamins, I do sleep a lot better.Maybe it's just a good idea to make sure one gets the proper amounts of nutrients before a condition gets any worse. One thing I read about was how early use of FISH OIL could possibly prevent more serious mental health issues later on. That means taking like, 1,500mg of fish oil everyday, which is no big deal and it's unlikely to have side effects. Fish oil, I believe, is a good investment in your health, including mental health. I take three 500mg fish oil capsules in the morning everyday, and it really does help me. I use a brand called Eskimo-3, which is a very good fish oil without the contaminants. There are so many good brands, and it's not necessarily expensive. It sounds like you are getting some good nutrients. You might look into B6, zinc picolinate, B12, folic acid, vitamins C and E, and fish oil as well, and also other B vitamins. I like to take the individual B vitamins, but getting a good B-complex everyday would also be a good idea if that's what you choose to do.
For myself, with the NAC, I found that 300mg in the morning didn't necessarily cause insomnia. When I increased it to 600mg per day, it did cause restless sleep. However, some people can take much more than that without a problem with sleep, so it really depends on your individual biochemistry. A lot of these supplements on the market are useless, in my opinion, if they don't jive with your individual chemistry, and supplements just like medicine have side effects. Maybe the insomnia will resolve itself naturally. Stress reduction with yoga is a great idea. Maybe that's all you need to help with your sleep. If not, you may look into a bedtime regimen of a 1:1 ratio of calcium and magnesium. If so, get good quality magnesium and calcium and preferably, chelated minerals. It might just relax you enough to sleep well. Again, I discovered that magnesium alone taken at bedtime was not sufficient to help with sleep. I need to take an equal amount of calcium with it. They kind of balance each other out.
I hope you figure it all out, and there is a lot of good information out there, a lot of which I wasn't privy to years ago.
Lao
Posted by Chan Fook on November 24, 2010, at 23:32:37
In reply to Re: Five-Way Concoction to Mild Depression and Anxiety, posted by Lao Tzu on November 23, 2010, at 15:04:00
Firstly to Sigismund, thanks for mentioning that, I've bought some orange juice because I haven't been eating much fruit and veg, which might be an issue.
Secondly to Lao Tzu, thank you so much for the lengthy post. I drink a heckload of milk everyday, I love my cereal, so I think I will not need a supplement for calcium. I'd like to mention that I've only had insomnia since taking NAC, beforehand I never had it and slept very peacefully. Problem is the supplement I have is in 600mg format and it's in a capsule so I can't even cut it in half. I'll keep taking it in the mornings, but as I write this it is 5.30am in the morning and I've had 3 hours of sleep. I've read about fish oil and heard positive things about it (not cod liver oil, it's just called fish oil I think) but haven't tried it yet because this routine is working well par the insomnia but that's due to one drug's effect. In regards to the melatonin, I think I am indirectly getting it from my 5-htp supplement.
And yes, as much as I would love to take a pill for every worry, I think it is not so simple. I will look first into yoga and maybe even meditation but I have very tensed muscles. However, I take into consideration vitamin B and fish oil if my condition deteriorates. I'm also considering taking a full hormone blood test to see if any imbalances could be the cause problems like stress, anxiety and depression.
Thanks again,
Chan Fook.
Posted by Chan Fook on November 30, 2010, at 9:40:29
In reply to Re: Five-Way Concoction to Mild Depression and Anxiety, posted by Chan Fook on November 24, 2010, at 23:32:37
Just a quick update, blissfully sleeping like a baby now, I'm maintaining a rigorous dosing schedule now when I wake up (9am) morning dosing and (9pm) evening dosing.
Easily did 11 hours of sleep last night, and honestly I love my sleep when I get it. Must have been my incorrect dosing time for NAC.
Posted by Lao Tzu on December 1, 2010, at 9:25:24
In reply to Re: Five-Way Concoction to Mild Depression and Anxiety, posted by Chan Fook on November 30, 2010, at 9:40:29
Maybe the NAC side effect of insomnia was just intermittent, just like some medicines can cause insomnia initially, but then it wanes over time once you get accustomed to it. But maybe it was your dosing schedule. Glad to hear you are sleeping. Keep us posted as to the effects of the NAC. Have you had any depression from the NAC? I've heard it takes a long time (whatever that means?) for the NAC to take effect. I'd be interested to know if it helps with depression over time because it is being tested for possibly bipolar depression. Haven't seen any clear cut evidence of any benefit. I am a little suspect of new supplements that people claim is beneficial. I'd like to see some proof before I try them. Please let us know in what way the NAC is helping you. I have tried it before and it really mellowed me out, so I didn't like it. I'm more into fatty acids for depression. I never had a lot of success with amino acids.
Lao
Posted by Chan Fook on December 1, 2010, at 13:06:45
In reply to Re: Five-Way Concoction to Mild Depression and Anxiety, posted by Lao Tzu on December 1, 2010, at 9:25:24
Well I'll be honest with you, I am currently feeling very unmotivated to do anything. I have a lot of assignments to do to hand in soon and I really feel as if I can't be bothered to do any of it. I've never really had this before, it might be a side effect of the NAC and I'm considering not taking NAC/Ashwagandha/5-htp and leaving only the minerals on my rota to see what might be the problem.
I'd like to see that my anxiety doesn't seem to be much of an issue, and in that area I have improved marginally, although I might have induced some sort of depression on myself. Hope it's nothing permanent. I sometimes get this where I get bursts of motivation and concentration during the year and this might be a low who knows.
I'd like to add that, caffeine seems to have no effect on me whatsoever. I even increase my dose higher than my usual tolerance and do not feel any mental effect other than physical side effects like jitters. I dislike this as it usually helps me concentrate but recently hasn't at all. Think it's a contraindication?
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.