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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by saturn on January 11, 2007, at 20:59:33
Generally fish oils are recommended to be taken with a meal.
I know that insulin/carbohydrate is required to drive tryptophan into the brain.
How about fish oil? Is it necesary to take it with a meal for absorption? (The only thing I would see to really avoid would be fiber with fish oil.)
To summarize:
1. Would fish oil be properly absorbed if taken on an empty stomach?
2. If taken on an empty stomach, might the omega 3 fats be used for energy before they can reach the brain and other target tissues?
Thanks...Peace...Saturn.
Posted by dessbee on January 12, 2007, at 6:46:31
In reply to Fish oil aborption, posted by saturn on January 11, 2007, at 20:59:33
I do not think you need to worry about absorption if you get side effects from fish oil.
Then it will just be a matter of right dosage to avoid side effects.If you want the best value for the money you could crush the fish oil capsule with your teeth so parts of the fatty acids is absorbed without first pass metabolism in the liver.
Unfortunately this has a fishy aftertaste... and your friends might dislike it ;-)
Posted by tealady on January 13, 2007, at 4:44:11
In reply to Fish oil aborption, posted by saturn on January 11, 2007, at 20:59:33
> Generally fish oils are recommended to be taken with a meal.
>
> I know that insulin/carbohydrate is required to drive tryptophan into the brain.
>
> How about fish oil? Is it necesary to take it with a meal for absorption? (The only thing I would see to really avoid would be fiber with fish oil.)
>
> To summarize:
>
> 1. Would fish oil be properly absorbed if taken on an empty stomach?
>
> 2. If taken on an empty stomach, might the omega 3 fats be used for energy before they can reach the brain and other target tissues?
>
> Thanks...Peace...Saturn.
>theory is better with an oily meal.. so take with oiliest meal of day
theory based on gallbladder emptying triggered by a certain minimum amount of oil usually.. (heard about a tablespoon full to be sure of a good amount from gallbladder?).. this gallballder stuff then acts like a "detergent" to mix with the oil in the intestines and allows for absorption of oil
.. but fibre would hold some of the oil or the oil-detergent mixture would be absorbed by some of the fibre.. and not absorbed in the intestines fully either, but may still have some effect as it passes thru I guess
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 21, 2007, at 9:17:09
In reply to Fish oil aborption, posted by saturn on January 11, 2007, at 20:59:33
> How about fish oil? Is it necesary to take it with a meal for absorption? (The only thing I would see to really avoid would be fiber with fish oil.)
Yes, necessary. Unless you enjoy rancid fish flavoured burps, and the idea of wasted food potential.
> To summarize:
>
> 1. Would fish oil be properly absorbed if taken on an empty stomach?If taken on an empty stomach, hydrochloric acid would attack the triglyceride structure, and the unsaturated double bonds which make the fish oil health-promoting. The triglyceride would be hydrolyzed to release free fatty acids, and the oxidation of the double bonds would cleave the fatty acids into short-chain aldehydes and ketones, which are volatile. The gases produced taste of rancid fish. Errrppp!
If instead eaten with a meal, the other substances present would buffer and physically protect the vulnerable fats, allowing them to pass into the duodenum where the acid is neutralized. As they enter the small intestine, fat sensors trigger the release of bile from the gall bladder, and the fats are hyrolyzed and emulsified for uptake.
The key is to have enough fat to trigger bile release, so taking fish oil with a meal containing other fats is a good idea. The fish oil quantity itself might be insufficient cause the gall bladder to contract.
> 2. If taken on an empty stomach, might the omega 3 fats be used for energy before they can reach the brain and other target tissues?The damaged fatty acids would go to energy, yes.
> Thanks...Peace...Saturn.
>Welcome.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 21, 2007, at 9:23:47
In reply to Re: Fish oil aborption » saturn, posted by dessbee on January 12, 2007, at 6:46:31
> I do not think you need to worry about absorption if you get side effects from fish oil.
> Then it will just be a matter of right dosage to avoid side effects.
>
> If you want the best value for the money you could crush the fish oil capsule with your teeth so parts of the fatty acids is absorbed without first pass metabolism in the liver.
> Unfortunately this has a fishy aftertaste... and your friends might dislike it ;-)
>I kind of doubt that there would be substantial oral uptake of triglycerides....but I could be wrong.
Intestinal absorption of triglycerides involves complete hydrolysis of the fats, so the liver's job is to reconstitute triglycerides from glycerol and free fatty acids. Yes, the liver gets first shot at taking up EPA and DHA, which it needs for proper functioning.....but that's not really a first pass metabolism effect.
It takes considerable time to allow membrane fatty acid composition to optimize via normal turnover, with available resources of EPA and DHA.....perhaps up to 18 months of regular intake. It doesn't have to be daily intake, but regular intake. The liver fairly randomly reassembles triglycerides from the free fatty acid pool, so your job is really just to make sure that there is some EPA and DHA available, over spans of days.
Lar
Posted by saturn on January 25, 2007, at 18:56:21
In reply to Re: Fish oil aborption » dessbee, posted by Larry Hoover on January 21, 2007, at 9:23:47
Lar,
Do you think taking fish oil with say a bowl of oatmeal would be counterproductive (too much fiber preventing absorption)?
If so how long should you wait after eating oatmeal or say taking a fiber supplement like metamucil?
Thanks...Peace...Saturn.
Posted by saturn on January 25, 2007, at 19:30:27
In reply to Re: Fish oil aborption » dessbee, posted by Larry Hoover on January 21, 2007, at 9:23:47
(Sorry to dwell on this)
I guess ny question is how much many grams of fiber can you take without preventing fish oil absorption?
And how many grams of fat should it be taken with to ensure sufficient gallbladder contraction for the bile necessary to absorb fish oils?
Any problem taking them with acidic drinks such as soda or coffee?
Thanks again...Peace...Saturn.
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 28, 2007, at 8:25:04
In reply to Re: Fish oil aborption » Larry Hoover, posted by saturn on January 25, 2007, at 18:56:21
> Lar,
>
> Do you think taking fish oil with say a bowl of oatmeal would be counterproductive (too much fiber preventing absorption)?Ahh, lassie, I see you inquire about oatmeal on Robbie Burns Day. Were you dreaming of haggis?
I took a look around, and I couldn't find any evidence of interaction with soluble fiber. Soluble fiber binds water, and water soluble fractions of the digestive soup. There are fat-soluble "fiber" supps, e.g. Chitosan, which would certainly impede uptake. I don't think oatmeal is an issue.
> If so how long should you wait after eating oatmeal or say taking a fiber supplement like metamucil?
>
> Thanks...Peace...Saturn.I wouldn't worry about it.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 28, 2007, at 8:30:43
In reply to Re: Fish oil aborption » Larry Hoover, posted by saturn on January 25, 2007, at 19:30:27
> (Sorry to dwell on this)
>
> I guess ny question is how much many grams of fiber can you take without preventing fish oil absorption?Like I said, I can't find evidence of an interaction.
> And how many grams of fat should it be taken with to ensure sufficient gallbladder contraction for the bile necessary to absorb fish oils?
That is not clearly known. The hormone cholecystokinin (CCK) is released by the duodenum by fats, but also by protein (I just found out). CCK causes the gallbladder to contract, and bile is released. 25 grams of fat was found to significantly empty the gallbladder, but 8 grams of fat caused 50% release. Moreover, pancreatic enzymes are released from CCK, and the feeling of satiety is, at least in part, due to cirulating CCK. So, I guess that if your meal takes away your hunger, your fat uptake should be fine. Carbs do not trigger CCK, but some bile is released, nonetheless.
> Any problem taking them with acidic drinks such as soda or coffee?
>
> Thanks again...Peace...Saturn.If that's all you're consuming, those beverages, then you're going to face oxidative destruction of the polyunsaturates, leading to rancid fish burbs. With a meal, it's not an issue.
You're welcome.
Lar
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