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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by blueberry on October 12, 2005, at 20:05:28
My sleep has been kind of lousy. Mostly med related I think. My doc wants me to try melatonin. My gut instinct tells me that won't do the trick. But I was curious to see if anyone else has found melatonin helpful for improving sleep.
Posted by Declan on October 12, 2005, at 20:13:57
In reply to Anyone Have Luck With Melatonin For Sleep?, posted by blueberry on October 12, 2005, at 20:05:28
No, I've taken it for years and it's never helped me at all. I have trouble even knowing that because I've been taking it for so long. I don't think it improves the quality of sleep. Maybe it's good for you. I hope so.
Declan
Posted by linkadge on October 12, 2005, at 20:19:23
In reply to Re: Anyone Have Luck With Melatonin For Sleep?, posted by Declan on October 12, 2005, at 20:13:57
Definately.
Yes, I certainly don't react well to all alternative supplements, but I do know that this one has definately helped insomnia.
I don't use it constantly, just on an as needed basis.
Linkadge
Posted by verne on October 12, 2005, at 22:12:43
In reply to Re: Anyone Have Luck With Melatonin For Sleep?, posted by Declan on October 12, 2005, at 20:13:57
It never worked for me. If anything it made my sleep more fitful. I tried regular and the super sublingual which had been recommended by a guy with PTSD and anxiety.
Verne
Posted by Declan on October 13, 2005, at 5:54:45
In reply to Re: Anyone Have Luck With Melatonin For Sleep?, posted by verne on October 12, 2005, at 22:12:43
Yes, I've been thinking this too, verne. That melatonin has made my sleep more fitful. It seems to have taken me 10 years to reach this conclusion/impression.
Declan
Posted by JLx on October 13, 2005, at 10:27:12
In reply to Anyone Have Luck With Melatonin For Sleep?, posted by blueberry on October 12, 2005, at 20:05:28
I used to use it and found it effective, but only when used intermittently, maybe 3 days a time. And in much smaller amounts than often recommended. I used to take a 1 mg tablet and split it into four and take that. More than that was depressing and didn't help insomnia.
I had insomnia for many years, but don't any more since I've been taking magnesium.
JL
Posted by Zillah on October 13, 2005, at 13:45:29
In reply to Anyone Have Luck With Melatonin For Sleep?, posted by blueberry on October 12, 2005, at 20:05:28
I have found melatonin to be very helpful as long as it's a sustained release formulation. I have trouble *staying* asleep, and the immediate release varieties do nothing to help with that.
I take between two and four 3mg tablets and start "layering" them about 1-2 hours before bed. For example, if I want to get to bed by 1am, I'll take one at 11pm, one at 12am, and two at 1am. This amount will help me snooze for 6-7 hours, and the sleep is much more deep/restful than I would get otherwise.
Zillah
> My sleep has been kind of lousy. Mostly med related I think. My doc wants me to try melatonin. My gut instinct tells me that won't do the trick. But I was curious to see if anyone else has found melatonin helpful for improving sleep.
Posted by LOOPS on October 13, 2005, at 15:35:17
In reply to Re: Anyone Have Luck With Melatonin For Sleep?, posted by Zillah on October 13, 2005, at 13:45:29
JLx -
how much mag do you take? Which kind? (Sorry, too lazy right now to look at back posts).
I'm juried out on the melatonin. I've been taking 1mg sublingual every night for the past couple of months. It helps me fall asleep, but then I wake up 3-4 hours later and then every hour after that. Hard to tell as I've had chronic insomnia all my life. Right now I'm taking 200mg mag glycinate, 1g taurine and 300mg calcium at bed which is helping.
Tried the mag glycinate on its own and bam, was severely depressed and sluggish all weekend. Also got a candida flare up. Overdosed I think - 600mg mag one night without calcium. Couldn't get out of bed. Seem to need the calcium. Am awaiting mag citrate through the post soon.
Well so far though I haven't needed my sleeping pills at all, which is good. Would like to sleep 7-8 hours straight though.
I'm slightly worried about melatonin worsening depression over the long term. Just thought I'd got that sorted with fish oil - but then anxiety as well for me is part of long-term depression and I still had that with fish oil.
Loops
Posted by verne on October 13, 2005, at 19:15:31
In reply to Re: Anyone Have Luck With Melatonin For Sleep?, posted by LOOPS on October 13, 2005, at 15:35:17
I think I read somewhere that the body produces more melatonin when it's dark - the darker, the better. Some have carried this to the extreme of shuttering windows and sleeping with a mask. Has anyone tried this?
Verne
Posted by JLx on October 13, 2005, at 19:35:05
In reply to Re: Anyone Have Luck With Melatonin For Sleep?, posted by LOOPS on October 13, 2005, at 15:35:17
> JLx -
>
> how much mag do you take? Which kind? (Sorry, too lazy right now to look at back posts).> JLx -
>
> how much mag do you take? Which kind? (Sorry, too lazy right now to look at back posts).I'm always playing around with various kinds and doses.
I've been experimenting just recently with Doctor's Best magnesium glycinate/lysinate with biopterin. http://www.iherb.com/magnesium4.html I didn't notice anything special about it, and the tablets are kind of clunky to swallow. So I think I'm going back to Carlson's mag glycinate brand, which is the same price per tablet, 12 cents, but is twice the amount of magnesium.
I usually take between 4-600 at night. Sometimes I take another hundred or couple hundred more. Sometimes I mix it with a couple capsules of magnesium taurate. Magnesium taurate on its own is less sedating to me. I think it may be good to mix it with the mag glycinate though. I've also mixed mag glycinate and mag malate. Mag citrate is the most likely to produce diarrhea for me, so I don't use that any more at all.
Just recently I bought some magnesium orotate in powder form. Tastes terrible, so I stuffed some capsules, and have been taking that in the morning sometimes. I haven't decided how this feels, still experimenting and am not a very good monitor and record keeper of my symptoms. I want to pay more attention to that.
Larry and I had a discussion about it last spring, in the uridine/citicholine thread. He speculated that the orotic acid, as also in lithium orotate, may do something on its own.
Mag orotate is recommended for heart disease, I notice.
I like magnesium a lot, but calcium feels awful to me. That's how I felt for years prior to magnesium. I only take a little calcium with my magnesium at night if I'm not eating any dairy.
> I'm juried out on the melatonin. I've been taking 1mg sublingual every night for the past couple of months. It helps me fall asleep, but then I wake up 3-4 hours later and then every hour after that. Hard to tell as I've had chronic insomnia all my life. Right now I'm taking 200mg mag glycinate, 1g taurine and 300mg calcium at bed which is helping.
Eating sugar contributes to insomnia for me. And some food dyes too. I love M&Ms but I know if I eat them, I will be insomniac that night. Even worse is diet Ruby Red Squirt, another favorite. In that one I suspect it's the red dye and the aspartame together.
> Tried the mag glycinate on its own and bam, was severely depressed and sluggish all weekend. Also got a candida flare up. Overdosed I think - 600mg mag one night without calcium. Couldn't get out of bed. Seem to need the calcium. Am awaiting mag citrate through the post soon.It's weird how it goes for different people. My sister finds magnesium glycinate and magnesium in general very stimulating. She can't even take an Epsom salt bath before bed or she will be too stimulated to sleep.
> Well so far though I haven't needed my sleeping pills at all, which is good. Would like to sleep 7-8 hours straight though.
Me too. I can sleep 6 hours straight but not more without waking up. Sometimes I then sleep another hour or two, but not often. My understanding is that it's due to too much cortisol always circulating. Per "The Cortisol Connection" by Shawn Talbot. He said that our lifestyles where we stay up too late contribute to that, because the normal rhythm gets disturbed. He said that sleeping between 10 and midnight was very important in regulating that rhythm. I've read that elsewhere too. He said to start turning off lights in the evening, avoiding computer or other work, and just in general winding down much earlier than most of us do. He also said that he takes theanine in the evenings to facilitate this process.
The thing about sleeping between 10 and midnight feels quite dramatic to me. The first time I forced myself, I woke up about 1 AM feeling so refreshed, I thought it was morning! It's hard to do though for this night owl.
Have you ever tried really darkening your room? I tried that once per some book I can't remember the name of. I didn't read the book, just all the reviews on Amazon. It said to cover all LED displays, all light peaking through or around curtains, and basically just every source of light. I tried it, slept like the dead and felt drugged and terrible the next morning -- just like I did when taking too much melatonin. I still cover my clock and other displays, but don't bother with the no-light-peaking-through-or-around-curtain thing.
If you're worried about melatonin long term, maybe more darkness would work instead.
JL
Posted by LOOPS on October 14, 2005, at 8:23:56
In reply to Re: Anyone Have Luck With Melatonin For Sleep?, posted by verne on October 13, 2005, at 19:15:31
Oh how I wish we had shutters....
Yes - we bought black-out curtains, and then when that wasn't enough (light coming in top of rail) I took some old curtains and shoved them into the crack at the top. It is now very, very dark in our room. I have always done this kind of thing. My brother takes it to extremes as well, so I guess we don't produce much melatonin!
I don't like masks - they feel uncomfortable. I used to wear earplugs, but ended up taking them out subconsciously at night.
Travelling is a nightmare - rooms nearly always too light etc. etc. When I go back to visit England, my in-laws' room has light pink curtains! The room also faces the dawn. So due to the time difference coming from Chile in their Summer, I don't sleep until 3am, then am awoken at 5am by the sun coming up! The joy...the joy! No-one seems to understand this.
These days I rely on pills when I travel, plus the old mag and melatonin. Makes it much easier.
Loops
Posted by Cairo on October 18, 2005, at 21:36:43
In reply to Anyone Have Luck With Melatonin For Sleep?, posted by blueberry on October 12, 2005, at 20:05:28
Melatonin didn't do a thing for me. Was told by a neuropsychologist that her friend is at the Sleep disorder clinic at Cleveland Clinic and said that only 1 in 3 benefit from melatonin. Wonder if that will apply to the new sleep med, Rozerem.
Cairo
> My sleep has been kind of lousy. Mostly med related I think. My doc wants me to try melatonin. My gut instinct tells me that won't do the trick. But I was curious to see if anyone else has found melatonin helpful for improving sleep.
Posted by LOOPS on October 19, 2005, at 9:46:34
In reply to Re: Anyone Have Luck With Melatonin For Sleep?, posted by LOOPS on October 14, 2005, at 8:23:56
Hi -
found a balance of cal/mag 1:1 is very good for me. Am taking 300mg mag and 300mg cal going to bed and this is fine. If wake up take 100 more of each. Just thought you'd like to know!
Loops
Posted by Jaynee on November 6, 2005, at 21:06:58
In reply to Re: Anyone Have Luck With Melatonin For Sleep?, posted by Cairo on October 18, 2005, at 21:36:43
You are only supposed to use .3mg of melatonin, not 3mg. Less is better. There have been new studies out stating this.
I take .3mg and it helps. The only problem with it are the very vivid dreams.
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