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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sabre on February 4, 2005, at 0:39:07
Hi
Picamilon at 50mg/day.
Days 1-3 Mild dizziness, nausea, agitation and feeling more socially anxious.
Day 4 Tired, flat and a bit depressed. Socially anxious.
Not very impressed.
sabre
Posted by KaraS on February 4, 2005, at 14:41:27
In reply to Picamilon.....hmm, posted by sabre on February 4, 2005, at 0:39:07
> Hi
>
> Picamilon at 50mg/day.
>
> Days 1-3 Mild dizziness, nausea, agitation and feeling more socially anxious.
>
> Day 4 Tired, flat and a bit depressed. Socially anxious.
>
> Not very impressed.
>
> sabre
>
I think you're supposed to take it 3 times a day and then wait for the longer term results. But it doesn't sound like you could tolerate that so maybe this just isn't the supplement for you.
Posted by Willyee on February 4, 2005, at 22:01:14
In reply to Re: Picamilon.....hmm » sabre, posted by KaraS on February 4, 2005, at 14:41:27
> > Hi
> >
> > Picamilon at 50mg/day.
> >
> > Days 1-3 Mild dizziness, nausea, agitation and feeling more socially anxious.
> >
> > Day 4 Tired, flat and a bit depressed. Socially anxious.
> >
> > Not very impressed.
> >
> > sabre
> >
>
>
> I think you're supposed to take it 3 times a day and then wait for the longer term results. But it doesn't sound like you could tolerate that so maybe this just isn't the supplement for you.
I hated picamilion too,if youre gonna go that route,at least try phenibut,still pretty crappy but at least you notice effects.
>
>
>
Posted by sabre on February 5, 2005, at 0:40:43
In reply to Re: Picamilon.....hmm » sabre, posted by KaraS on February 4, 2005, at 14:41:27
I woke up feeling nauseated and depressed, so I didn't take the next dose. Over the course of the day I feel like I'm returning back to where I started.
I found my reaction to nicotinamide was very similar to Picamilon. So perhaps the negative effects were due to the niacin carrier and not necessarily the GABA???
I bought some Phenibut too, so I'll give it a go tomorrow. Linkadge suggested theanine as a counter to glutamate (on Babble page) which could be another factor in social anxiety. Has anyone got any positive tales to tell about either Phenibut or theanine for SA? I'm interested in the strength of the effect too.
Thanks
sabre
Posted by Willyee on February 7, 2005, at 23:39:57
In reply to Re: Picamilon.....hmm, posted by sabre on February 5, 2005, at 0:40:43
> I woke up feeling nauseated and depressed, so I didn't take the next dose. Over the course of the day I feel like I'm returning back to where I started.
>
> I found my reaction to nicotinamide was very similar to Picamilon. So perhaps the negative effects were due to the niacin carrier and not necessarily the GABA???
Yess l-thenine is mild,your average otc roduct.Overall it has an effect,but its mild one.Phenibut,ok most people upon taking it dont feel anything,BUT this thing hits you out of left field.and it hits you HARD.
Hard enough where it feels intoxicating or make u feel sick,also it stays,my first reaction lasted the hole next day,i felt a tingling in my head,i was onn the edge of being high,somewhere between.
When and if this becomes active,it does not feel like otc,it feels like a bad drug,so even if u dot feel it i strongly advise to take the dose ur supposed to,not a bit more.To give you an idea,it was gona be the new GHB for some of the hardcore users,until it was established theres a irreversable poopout,everyone was excitied they found a substitute,and these were hard core users.
So use carefully......phenibutt will not be like supplmentl gaba,l theanine or picamilion,more closer o GHB or a very high dose of kava an intoxicating one,not a mild substance upo first use.
>
> I bought some Phenibut too, so I'll give it a go tomorrow. Linkadge suggested theanine as a counter to glutamate (on Babble page) which could be another factor in social anxiety. Has anyone got any positive tales to tell about either Phenibut or theanine for SA? I'm interested in the strength of the effect too.
> Thanks
> sabre
Posted by sabre on February 9, 2005, at 0:56:41
In reply to Re: Picamilon.....hmm, posted by sabre on February 5, 2005, at 0:40:43
Thanks Willyee for your advice about Phenibut.
Phenibut has proved to be too weird for me.
I tried around 300mg each morning for 3 consecutive days.Each morning I woke up feeling more anxious and fearful. I think it might have something to do with lowering blood sugar. I also noticed this taking GABA and Picamilon but to a lesser degree.
They all seem to chew the fat off your stomach too! Perhaps they would be good for marathoners wishing to train their bodies to burn fat more efficiently. Not pleasant..but effective.I usually go for a morning run and I noticed the sort of feeling you get when you are glycogen depleted and working on fats. A lot of heavy breathing and the feeling you want to lie in the dirt and go to sleep half way through the run. After running yesterday I spent the morning trying to study and found I couldn't. I felt like a stunned mullet - spaced out and flaccid.
I felt more anxious around people and also had difficulty finding words a few times. Definitely anti social.
Immediately after a meal I felt more even and calm but it didn't last long.
Being on Phenibut feels unpredictable.I don't feel motivated to keep pushing on with this supplement. Or should I perservere for 6 weeks like you would with a prescription drug?
I don't know what to make of it. If you have a bad reaction to GABA supplements does this mean you have or haven't a problem with GABA? Tryptophan was bad too, so does that rule serotonin in or out? Does the body react badly when the receptors are few so that any supplement or drug just drowns them? Or is it the case of having just the right amount of serotonin and GABA in your body so that any extra causes turmoil?Tyrosine was good but nor strong enough. Do you interpret this to mean that it is probably the root of my evil????
Glutamine is next!! But I'll wait until I'm feeling normal...my normal that is.
sabre
Posted by teejay on February 9, 2005, at 19:51:02
In reply to Re: Phenibut.....hmm, posted by sabre on February 9, 2005, at 0:56:41
Sorry to butt in here. Been sort of following your thread and had a little idea.....perhaps using the tryptophan and the tyrosine at the same time might help.
just an idea
TJ
Posted by Willyee on February 10, 2005, at 0:10:45
In reply to Re: Phenibut.....hmm, posted by sabre on February 9, 2005, at 0:56:41
I personaly respond horrable to gaba alone,it creates more anxiety,depression,etc.I am a good respondent to a good clenaish stimulant.......and to cut that edge of avoiding people to work on a projector trying to take over the world THEN a small amount of gaba added works great to give that social nudge,to allow one to want to be around people.
I have come to this conclusion by the following.......
Parnate - When it works,and its now a big when,depression is gone,but ill be fine in my room cleaning or working on my pc or anything like that,sometimes there is a hyperness,and mild anxiety,not the bad kind.At this point many forms of gaba help,the best maybe being a small pieace of klonopin,which will make me wanna call and talk to a friend or go out.
Liquid deprenyl - Alone it made me alert,i felt smart and confident,but tasks were the only thing i wanted to do,with a small pieace of klonopin added i would go out.
GHB- The mother of sedatives,lots of people love the initial high,i hated it,i layed down and closed my eyes during it,its the dopamine release,which was great,there u had the dopamine stimulant effect of energy,as well as the sedative effects on the muscle tone and pace of thinking remained.
One of my great sins was when i was lucky enough to have parnate work,and i was out shooitng pool,i had that tenseness,a bacardi silver or two taken slowly made me feel wow,smart confident anxiety free,great! Of course takin an Maoi and beer is not a smart move.
My final thoughts for me are i dont mess with sedatives like benzos,nueroleptics,even beer unless its to ease anxiety from a WORKING anti-deprassant,only then do i get a combination of anti depressant action as well as anti social effects,parnate alone will not make me social.
P.S Ever notice the difference of a gaba induced sleep from like ambien.....to a dopamine induced sleep like parnate of ghb rebound......a gaba sleep knocks u out cold,and u have a rough sleep waking like u been in a coma.A dopamine sleep is when u lay down and think,not racing thoughts,but u think of normal things and relax,and u then fall asleeep upon thinking,you wake with ur eyes wide open u turn to the sidec close ur eyes and smile,u r ready to get out of bed and u dont feel like u been drugged,i may be alone here but its quite a difference of sleep to me.
> Thanks Willyee for your advice about Phenibut.
>
> Phenibut has proved to be too weird for me.
> I tried around 300mg each morning for 3 consecutive days.
>
> Each morning I woke up feeling more anxious and fearful. I think it might have something to do with lowering blood sugar. I also noticed this taking GABA and Picamilon but to a lesser degree.
> They all seem to chew the fat off your stomach too! Perhaps they would be good for marathoners wishing to train their bodies to burn fat more efficiently. Not pleasant..but effective.
>
> I usually go for a morning run and I noticed the sort of feeling you get when you are glycogen depleted and working on fats. A lot of heavy breathing and the feeling you want to lie in the dirt and go to sleep half way through the run. After running yesterday I spent the morning trying to study and found I couldn't. I felt like a stunned mullet - spaced out and flaccid.
>
> I felt more anxious around people and also had difficulty finding words a few times. Definitely anti social.
>
> Immediately after a meal I felt more even and calm but it didn't last long.
> Being on Phenibut feels unpredictable.
>
> I don't feel motivated to keep pushing on with this supplement. Or should I perservere for 6 weeks like you would with a prescription drug?
>
> I don't know what to make of it. If you have a bad reaction to GABA supplements does this mean you have or haven't a problem with GABA? Tryptophan was bad too, so does that rule serotonin in or out? Does the body react badly when the receptors are few so that any supplement or drug just drowns them? Or is it the case of having just the right amount of serotonin and GABA in your body so that any extra causes turmoil?
>
> Tyrosine was good but nor strong enough. Do you interpret this to mean that it is probably the root of my evil????
>
> Glutamine is next!! But I'll wait until I'm feeling normal...my normal that is.
>
> sabre
>
Posted by sabre on February 10, 2005, at 2:28:42
In reply to Re: Phenibut.....hmm, posted by Willyee on February 10, 2005, at 0:10:45
Willyee, you said a clean stimulant with GABA was effective for social anxiety. What stimulant did you use? Did you mean a GABA supplement or a medication that increases GABA?
It all starts to blow my mind when I see how varied people's reactions are to psych chemicals.
It looks like the only way to work it out is by continued experimentation.You sound like you have worked long and hard at finding answers.
sabre
Posted by sabre on February 10, 2005, at 2:41:13
In reply to Re: Phenibut.....hmm, posted by teejay on February 9, 2005, at 19:51:02
Hi TJ
You're not butting in!!I have tried Tryptophan with and without Tyrosine but didn't like the Tryptophan. I thought it would be a great combination too.
The Tryptophan made me nauseous and I woke up the morning after taking it feeling hung over and with a bad headache.I don't know if I had pursued this for a number of weeks whether I might have got used to it.
I'd be interested to hear whether anyone has.
What are your experiences with it, TJ?Thanks for joining in.
Sabre
Posted by teejay on February 10, 2005, at 19:52:05
In reply to Re: Phenibut.....TJ, posted by sabre on February 10, 2005, at 2:41:13
Hi sabre,
Cant really say I seem to find anything which makes any meaningful impact to be honest. Tried tyrosine and tryptophan (but not together) and didnt notice anything. Same for niacinimide, magnesium, lith orotate, zinc, b6 and so the list goes on!
At the moment thought i've been using Vit D. Taking 20ug twice a day and dont feel as rough for the time of year than I normally do.
Still feel ever so on edge all the time though, almost as though I just wanna scream and shout, smash the place up and then collapse in a blubbering heap like a child does. Horrid feeling and very tiring.
TJ
Posted by sabre on February 11, 2005, at 14:44:04
In reply to Re: Phenibut.....TJ » sabre, posted by teejay on February 10, 2005, at 19:52:05
Hi TJ
Vit D. That's not one I had considered. What effects are you noticing using it?Have you tried glycine, theanine or taurine? They all seem to play an inhibitory role.
I haven't tried them but they are on my list.
The only drug I can honestly say that has made an impact on my social anxiety has been valium but the problem with that is the sedation...1/3 tablet and I'm under the table asleep. Tyrosine has eased the panic and increased motivation and energy but not fully or consistently. Propanalol helps me survive work but it has its problems too. The fear is still alive and well but you can hide it better.
Had an interesting few days on glutamine but I'll stick a new post up for that.I hope Vit D helps. I think any positive effect helps to fill the puzzle in and gives you a little bit of hope.
sabre
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