![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 228. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Cristine on February 3, 2005, at 2:10:41
Hi to all!!
Are you still taking selegiline and is it still effective for you?
I have read a lot of posts of people saying working well on low dosages of Selegiline plus DLPA. I am planning to begin taking that but i am a little afraid because of the anxiety that the selegiline appears to make worse.
I would like to know something else about this combo taking it for a long time. I haven't found any post talking about this question. All i have read refers to few weeks or months, but nobody seems to continue with it after this time.
I wonder if it could be due to the anxiety or another side effects.Thanks!!
Posted by Cristine on February 3, 2005, at 2:14:20
In reply to Taking selegiline for a long time questions, posted by Cristine on February 3, 2005, at 2:10:41
i forget ask what is better, take the selegiline with meals or before its.
Thanks!
Posted by KaraS on February 4, 2005, at 14:38:57
In reply to Re: Taking selegiline for a long time questions, posted by Cristine on February 3, 2005, at 2:14:20
> i forget ask what is better, take the selegiline with meals or before its.
>
> Thanks!There are several people who have posted here or on the main board who have had good luck with selegiline long term. If you do a search you can find some excellent posts - esp. by Ktemene. Ktemene's posts include links to other relevant posts.
You should take the selegiline with food. It increases it's absorbtion. The DLPA has to be taken on an empty stomach though.
Kara
Posted by world citizen on February 6, 2005, at 2:43:36
In reply to Re: Taking selegiline for a long time questions » Cristine, posted by KaraS on February 4, 2005, at 14:38:57
> Hi.
My current understanding is that DLPA needs several things in order for it to be effective. It needs to be taken on an empty stomach approx. 30 before ingestion of food, it needs to be taken with Vitamin C-500mgs, B6 50-100 mgs and you need to drink some sweet grape juice or something-sugar is required to assist the DLPA to pass the blood brain barrier. ( you might want to take the smallest dose possible because DLPA can by itself induce anxiety) L-theanine is very good for anti-anxiety. You might want to research it on Google.comI've been taking selegiline and DLPA for over 2 years with very good success.
World Citizen
> i forget ask what is better, take the selegiline with meals or before its.
> >
> > Thanks!
>
> There are several people who have posted here or on the main board who have had good luck with selegiline long term. If you do a search you can find some excellent posts - esp. by Ktemene. Ktemene's posts include links to other relevant posts.
>
> You should take the selegiline with food. It increases it's absorbtion. The DLPA has to be taken on an empty stomach though.
>
> Kara
>
Posted by Elroy on February 11, 2005, at 21:30:14
In reply to Re: Taking selegiline for a long time questions, posted by world citizen on February 6, 2005, at 2:43:36
Interesting post on this topic. Am currently trying to get my psych doc to prescribe the selegiline for me (low-dose to use in this specific combination). Any problems with agitation or increased anxiety with this mix? I have (currently) lower grade background anxiety that is being handled by Xanax XR. If this combo works good for the depression and lack of motivation and unhappiness then I hope to wean off of Xanax and replace with SJW or picamilon or whatever.
Elroy
> > Hi.
> My current understanding is that DLPA needs several things in order for it to be effective. It needs to be taken on an empty stomach approx. 30 before ingestion of food, it needs to be taken with Vitamin C-500mgs, B6 50-100 mgs and you need to drink some sweet grape juice or something-sugar is required to assist the DLPA to pass the blood brain barrier. ( you might want to take the smallest dose possible because DLPA can by itself induce anxiety) L-theanine is very good for anti-anxiety. You might want to research it on Google.com
>
> I've been taking selegiline and DLPA for over 2 years with very good success.
>
> World Citizen
>
> > i forget ask what is better, take the selegiline with meals or before its.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> >
> > There are several people who have posted here or on the main board who have had good luck with selegiline long term. If you do a search you can find some excellent posts - esp. by Ktemene. Ktemene's posts include links to other relevant posts.
>
> >
> > You should take the selegiline with food. It increases it's absorbtion. The DLPA has to be taken on an empty stomach though.
> >
> > Kara
> >
>
>
Posted by world citizen on February 12, 2005, at 14:51:07
In reply to Re: Taking selegiline for a long time questions, posted by Elroy on February 11, 2005, at 21:30:14
>
As I stated, DLPA can, in some individuals, induce anxiety. Your might want to start low, Source Naturals has one that is 375 mgs. I haven't had any problems with 500 mgs of DLPA and 5-10 mgs of Selegilint. WORD OF CAUTIION; not all MDs are aware that Selegiline is an MAO(b) inhibitor. My understanding is that it doesn't start having the tyromine problem unless taking over 20mgs per day. BUT, you must be VERY cautious about other meds.,tricyclic anitdepressants would be potentially fatal so you might want to rethink the St. John's Wort as there are several theories as to how this substance "works"-may be contraindicated. Certain pain meds, I believe, of the synthetic opioid class-vicadin etc could cause problems. It's best to follow up any meds. given by MD with your pharmacist-I think they are MUCH more knowledgable and less likely to be influenced by pharmaceutical reps (we can only hope!)I would also STRONGLY suggest posting these questions on dancesafe.org., specifically, joe@dancesafe.org. Dance Safe was originally founded to advise those who wanted to take escstacy on how to take it safely. They still do that, but also have information on other psychoactive drugs like selegiline.
In my experience, L-theanine is very effective at reducing anxiety. If you wanted to get off Xanax, you'd still have to titrate your dosage, as I'm sure you're aware.
worldcitizenInteresting post on this topic. Am currently trying to get my psych doc to prescribe the selegiline for me (low-dose to use in this specific combination). Any problems with agitation or increased anxiety with this mix? I have (currently) lower grade background anxiety that is being handled by Xanax XR. If this combo works good for the depression and lack of motivation and unhappiness then I hope to wean off of Xanax and replace with SJW or picamilon or whatever.
>
> Elroy
>
>
> > > Hi.
> > My current understanding is that DLPA needs several things in order for it to be effective. It needs to be taken on an empty stomach approx. 30 before ingestion of food, it needs to be taken with Vitamin C-500mgs, B6 50-100 mgs and you need to drink some sweet grape juice or something-sugar is required to assist the DLPA to pass the blood brain barrier. ( you might want to take the smallest dose possible because DLPA can by itself induce anxiety) L-theanine is very good for anti-anxiety. You might want to research it on Google.com
> >
> > I've been taking selegiline and DLPA for over 2 years with very good success.
> >
> > World Citizen
>
Posted by KaraS on February 12, 2005, at 16:53:44
In reply to Re: Taking selegiline for a long time questions, posted by world citizen on February 12, 2005, at 14:51:07
The tyramine problem with selegiline generally comes when you go over 10 mg. My friend had a hypertensive crisis on 15 mg. (YMMV - some people may need to be careful at even lower dosages.)
Posted by world citizen on February 12, 2005, at 19:15:49
In reply to Re: Taking selegiline for a long time questions, posted by KaraS on February 12, 2005, at 16:53:44
I'm curious as to what other medications, if any, your friend was taking when she had her hypertensive crisis. I'm exremely sensitive to chemicals in general and I've not had any problems at all with Seleginine. Once I was taking Flexeril (in the drug family of tricyclics) and starting taking St. John's Wort (is suspected of having MAO(a)I properties) and had myself a homegrown hypertensive crisis. This is to say that it may not have been selegiline alone that caused the crisis, which is why in my previous post I indicated that one has to be EXCEDINGLY cautious when taking other drugs with this. Don't trust your MD exclusively, ASK YOUR PHARMACIST!!!world citizen
> The tyramine problem with selegiline generally comes when you go over 10 mg. My friend had a hypertensive crisis on 15 mg. (YMMV - some people may need to be careful at even lower dosages.)
>
>
Posted by KaraS on February 12, 2005, at 20:41:05
In reply to Re: Taking selegiline for a long time questions, posted by world citizen on February 12, 2005, at 19:15:49
>
> I'm curious as to what other medications, if any, your friend was taking when she had her hypertensive crisis. I'm exremely sensitive to chemicals in general and I've not had any problems at all with Seleginine. Once I was taking Flexeril (in the drug family of tricyclics) and starting taking St. John's Wort (is suspected of having MAO(a)I properties) and had myself a homegrown hypertensive crisis. This is to say that it may not have been selegiline alone that caused the crisis, which is why in my previous post I indicated that one has to be EXCEDINGLY cautious when taking other drugs with this. Don't trust your MD exclusively, ASK YOUR PHARMACIST!!!
>
> world citizen
> > The tyramine problem with selegiline generally comes when you go over 10 mg. My friend had a hypertensive crisis on 15 mg. (YMMV - some people may need to be careful at even lower dosages.)
> >My friend was taking a couple of other drugs for Parkinson's disease. However, I've read in several places that 10 mg. is the standard cutoff number for selegiline - so I think she would have had a crisis whether or not she was taking anything else.
Posted by Elroy on February 12, 2005, at 21:32:03
In reply to Re: Taking selegiline for a long time questions, posted by world citizen on February 12, 2005, at 14:51:07
Yes, have read a couple of places that L-theanine is very effective at reducing anxiety. Any ideas on general doses, times, empty stomach, etc? I am only on 1mg Xanax XR twice a day so should be able to wean off slowly... but don't want to do that until have established protocol with AD formula. My preference would be to go with the Selegiline and DLPA (low doses on both) while my psych doc is leaning a little more towards Provigil.
Elroy
> >
> As I stated, DLPA can, in some individuals, induce anxiety. Your might want to start low, Source Naturals has one that is 375 mgs. I haven't had any problems with 500 mgs of DLPA and 5-10 mgs of Selegilint. WORD OF CAUTIION; not all MDs are aware that Selegiline is an MAO(b) inhibitor. My understanding is that it doesn't start having the tyromine problem unless taking over 20mgs per day. BUT, you must be VERY cautious about other meds.,tricyclic anitdepressants would be potentially fatal so you might want to rethink the St. John's Wort as there are several theories as to how this substance "works"-may be contraindicated. Certain pain meds, I believe, of the synthetic opioid class-vicadin etc could cause problems. It's best to follow up any meds. given by MD with your pharmacist-I think they are MUCH more knowledgable and less likely to be influenced by pharmaceutical reps (we can only hope!)
>
> I would also STRONGLY suggest posting these questions on dancesafe.org., specifically, joe@dancesafe.org. Dance Safe was originally founded to advise those who wanted to take escstacy on how to take it safely. They still do that, but also have information on other psychoactive drugs like selegiline.
>
> In my experience, L-theanine is very effective at reducing anxiety. If you wanted to get off Xanax, you'd still have to titrate your dosage, as I'm sure you're aware.
> worldcitizen
>
> Interesting post on this topic. Am currently trying to get my psych doc to prescribe the selegiline for me (low-dose to use in this specific combination). Any problems with agitation or increased anxiety with this mix? I have (currently) lower grade background anxiety that is being handled by Xanax XR. If this combo works good for the depression and lack of motivation and unhappiness then I hope to wean off of Xanax and replace with SJW or picamilon or whatever.
> >
> > Elroy
> >
> >
> > > > Hi.
> > > My current understanding is that DLPA needs several things in order for it to be effective. It needs to be taken on an empty stomach approx. 30 before ingestion of food, it needs to be taken with Vitamin C-500mgs, B6 50-100 mgs and you need to drink some sweet grape juice or something-sugar is required to assist the DLPA to pass the blood brain barrier. ( you might want to take the smallest dose possible because DLPA can by itself induce anxiety) L-theanine is very good for anti-anxiety. You might want to research it on Google.com
> > >
> > > I've been taking selegiline and DLPA for over 2 years with very good success.
> > >
> > > World Citizen
> >
Posted by world citizen on February 13, 2005, at 21:57:40
In reply to Re: Selegiline, posted by Elroy on February 12, 2005, at 21:32:03
>
Hi Elroy,Here is a site so you can employ the "independent search for truth" otherwise known as "see with thine own eyes and not with the eyes of another"-www.modafinil.com (Modafinil=Provigil).
I'll preface what I'm going to say by informing you that I have no letters following my name. I'm only sharing what I've experienced and what makes sense through my research.
It would appear to me that if you have an anxiety disorder of some type and are therefore taking xanax XR then the use of Provigil might, in fact, be contraindicated due to the fact that it appears to be a GABA antagonist, at least on some of the gaba receptors. The Provigil would make you very alert for 12-15 hours but due to anxiety this may not qualify as "quality time". (please access the site indicated above)
On the other hand...
Selegiline and DLPA enhance the dopamine in your brain (to know more of a technical nature of how this occurs joe@dancesafe.org) AND is neural-protective!As far as the L-theanine I just treat it as any other amino acid I want to pass the blood-brain barrier-take 1/2 hour before meals, take with 500mgs vitamin C, 100-200 mgs vitamin B6 and take with sweet juice-apple juice seems to work well.
If your MD puts you on the Provigil the L-theanine would pretty much be a waste of money as you may discover upon reading the information at modafinil.com.I hope this is helpful. The only other ingredient that I add is vitamin G, otheriwse "known" as God! I pray for guidance on a regular basis and am very pleased with the efficacy of this Most Great Vitamin!
world citizen
Yes, have read a couple of places that L-theanine is very effective at reducing anxiety. Any ideas on general doses, times, empty stomach, etc? I am only on 1mg Xanax XR twice a day so should be able to wean off slowly... but don't want to do that until have established protocol with AD formula. My preference would be to go with the Selegiline and DLPA (low doses on both) while my psych doc is leaning a little more towards Provigil.
>
> Elroy
>
>
>
Posted by Elroy on February 15, 2005, at 21:38:33
In reply to Re: Selegiline, posted by world citizen on February 13, 2005, at 21:57:40
World Citizen,
Thanks for info. Am going to try and convince my psych doc to go with the selegiline option (low dose with DLPA, Vit 6, etc.) and see how that works out. If effective at eliminating depression would then like to gradually wean off the Xanax XR and go with something more antural. You think L-theanine would be a better option than say a SJW... or how about the Nootropic compound picamilone (seeing as how it is a combo of Niacin and GABA)?
Elroy
Posted by world citizen on February 16, 2005, at 11:41:29
In reply to Re: Selegiline, posted by Elroy on February 15, 2005, at 21:38:33
Hey Elroy,
I'm not at all convinced the GABA taken orally passes the blood-brain barrier-even with niacin. As far as St. JOhns'Wort, I'd HIGHLY advise against taking it along with Selegiline as the researchers believe it has several modes of action in terms of acting as antideprossant. Your might want to consult with several pharmacists and get a consensus on this. I would think it would be easier to take a good valerian root extract as this DOES pass the blood-brain barrier, attends to similar GABA receptors as the benzos., AND is not contraindicated with Selegiline. I'm investigating a suppliment that contains L-theanine, taurine, magnesium, GABA and valerian.
Here's the rendown: THEANINE SERINE from Source Naturals. composition; 60 tabsMag. chelate 300mgs
GABA 500mgs
taurine 500mgs
theanine 200mgs
valerian 100mgsThis product is being offered at VITACOST.COM for
about $16.00. Seems like a good investment to me
World Citizen
> Thanks for info. Am going to try and convince my psych doc to go with the selegiline option (low dose with DLPA, Vit 6, etc.) and see how that works out. If effective at eliminating depression would then like to gradually wean off the Xanax XR and go with something more antural. You think L-theanine would be a better option than say a SJW... or how about the Nootropic compound picamilone (seeing as how it is a combo of Niacin and GABA)?
>
> Elroy
>
>
Posted by Elroy on February 16, 2005, at 17:33:23
In reply to Re: Selegiline, posted by world citizen on February 16, 2005, at 11:41:29
Well, have been doing some research on the Picamilon(e). Sounds interesting enough to be worth a try. I just ordered some last night, so will see how it works out (and will post with results).
BTW, I have tried a number of online web sites (such as drugdigest.org) and have found NO interactions for the combination of the following drugs and herbs:
* Selegiline and St. John's Wort
* Selegiline and samE (Sammy)
* Selegiline and Tryptophan or 5-HTP
* Selegiline and Xanax XR
* Selegiline and ValerianIt seems that Selegiline (and most therapeutic doses are actually for Parkinson's and in the 30 - 60 mg range) so I think that the very low dose Selegiline being discussed here is actually extremely safe.
Also interesting info on SJW and it's effectiveness and interaction with other drugs found at following web sites:
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/100/105807
New research shows the herbal supplement St. John's Wort to be as effective as one of the most popular prescription antidepressants for treating both moderate and severe depression... researchers treated 251 patients with major depression with either a standard dose of the St. John's Wort extract (900 milligrams a day) or the antidepressant Paxil (20 milligrams a day)... 71% of the patients taking St. John's Wort and 60% of those taking Paxil had responded to treatment. Half of the St. John's Wort-treated patients and 35% of the Paxil-treated patients were free of depression symptoms... concerns have been raised in recent years about interactions with other medications. It has been shown to decrease the effectiveness of some lifesaving drugs, including those that fight cancer and AIDS, and drugs, such as cyclosporine, that prevent organ rejection after a transplant... study published in the fall of 2003 showed that taking the herbal supplement reduces the effectiveness of as many as half of all prescription and over-the-counter drugs...I know that there's an interaction with Xanax so would not even consider taking it until I was weaned off the Xanax (but probably would be okay taking Theanine while on the Xanax until I could wean off???).
Also at:
http://www.npicenter.com/anm/templates/newsATemp.aspx?articleid=11690&zoneid=41
According to a randomized, double-blind, reference-controlled clinical study published today in the prestigious British Medical Journal, the proprietary St. John's Wort extract WS(R) 5570 is at least as effective in treating depression and better tolerated by patients than the widely prescribed anti-depressant paroxetine.(1)... n the U.S., an identical strength version of WS(R) 5570 is sold as a natural dietary supplement for promoting a positive mood, rather than a drug for the treatment of depression. This extract (WS(R) 5572) contains the same patented, standardized and stabilized hyperforin content as WS(R) 5570, and is marketed as Perika(R) St. John's Wort by Nature's Way Products, Inc., Springville, Utah. Perika(R) is available nationwide at health and nutrition retail outlets...
http://store.yahoo.com/iherb/perika.html $8.00 and change for 60 tabs but at 300mg per tab and needing to take 900mgs, would need be like $25 for a 2-month supply... however this one IS cheaper at VitaCost...
http://www.vitacost.com/Store/Products/ProductDescription.cfm?SKUNumber=033674065600&searchby=PN&SearchText=Perika
$6.99 for 60 tabs but at 300mg per tab and needing to take 900mgs, would need be like $21 for a 2-month supply...
Unfortunately all still speculation at this point as still awaiting word from psych doc in getting prescribed the Selegiline... am still hoping though to give the Selegiline and DLPA (and Vit B6, etc.) a chance.I'd sure like to make a posting like the last one from Pseudonym...
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20041211/msgs/430276.html
Elroy
P.S. Thanks for the information on THEANINE SERINE from Source Naturals. That sounds very promising. Will definitely look into it. BTWm iHerb has it much cheaper:
http://store.yahoo.com/iherb/theanineserene1.html
Plus a version with Relora (anti-cortisol) added in (that also is still cheaper)
http://store.yahoo.com/iherb/theanineserene.html
Serving size:2 Tablets
Servings Per Container: 30
Amount Per ServingMagnesium (as magnesium chelate) 300 mg
GABA 500 mg
Taurine 450 mg
L-Theanine 200 mg
Relora (a proprietary blend of patent pending plant extracts from Phellodendron amutense and Magnolia officinalis ) 150 mg
Valerian Root Extract 100 mg
>
>
> Hey Elroy,
>
> I'm not at all convinced the GABA taken orally passes the blood-brain barrier-even with niacin. As far as St. JOhns'Wort, I'd HIGHLY advise against taking it along with Selegiline as the researchers believe it has several modes of action in terms of acting as antideprossant. Your might want to consult with several pharmacists and get a consensus on this. I would think it would be easier to take a good valerian root extract as this DOES pass the blood-brain barrier, attends to similar GABA receptors as the benzos., AND is not contraindicated with Selegiline. I'm investigating a suppliment that contains L-theanine, taurine, magnesium, GABA and valerian.
> Here's the rendown: THEANINE SERINE from Source Naturals. composition; 60 tabs
>
> Mag. chelate 300mgs
> GABA 500mgs
> taurine 500mgs
> theanine 200mgs
> valerian 100mgs
>
> This product is being offered at VITACOST.COM for
> about $16.00. Seems like a good investment to me
> World Citizen
>
>
>
> > Thanks for info. Am going to try and convince my psych doc to go with the selegiline option (low dose with DLPA, Vit 6, etc.) and see how that works out. If effective at eliminating depression would then like to gradually wean off the Xanax XR and go with something more antural. You think L-theanine would be a better option than say a SJW... or how about the Nootropic compound picamilone (seeing as how it is a combo of Niacin and GABA)?
> >
> > Elroy
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by world citizen on February 16, 2005, at 21:07:39
In reply to Re: Selegiline » world citizen, posted by Elroy on February 16, 2005, at 17:33:23
>
Elroy,
If you'd like to try Selegiling until your MD prescribes it (or you find a different MD) here is the company where I first purchased Selegiline AKA Deprenyl; Interantional Anti-aging System-just google it. It's outside the US, a prescription is not required, nor is it illegal to purchase it in this manner. It takes about 2-3 weeks to arrive (must take the slow boat). It comes in liquid and tablets, I find the tablets much easier!I just want to make sure that we're clear on something: Selegiline IS an MAO(b)inhibitor,therefore it does act as an antidepresessant. If you take this and the SJW, it would seem to be redundant.
I don't know a thing about Picamilon(e) but will track it down and look it up!World Citizen
Well, have been doing some research on the Picamilon(e). Sounds interesting enough to be worth a try. I just ordered some last night, so will see how it works out (and will post with results).
>
> BTW, I have tried a number of online web sites (such as drugdigest.org) and have found NO interactions for the combination of the following drugs and herbs:
>
> * Selegiline and St. John's Wort
> * Selegiline and samE (Sammy)
> * Selegiline and Tryptophan or 5-HTP
> * Selegiline and Xanax XR
> * Selegiline and Valerian
>
> It seems that Selegiline (and most therapeutic doses are actually for Parkinson's and in the 30 - 60 mg range) so I think that the very low dose Selegiline being discussed here is actually extremely safe.
>
> Also interesting info on SJW and it's effectiveness and interaction with other drugs found at following web sites:
>
> http://my.webmd.com/content/article/100/105807
> New research shows the herbal supplement St. John's Wort to be as effective as one of the most popular prescription antidepressants for treating both moderate and severe depression... researchers treated 251 patients with major depression with either a standard dose of the St. John's Wort extract (900 milligrams a day) or the antidepressant Paxil (20 milligrams a day)... 71% of the patients taking St. John's Wort and 60% of those taking Paxil had responded to treatment. Half of the St. John's Wort-treated patients and 35% of the Paxil-treated patients were free of depression symptoms... concerns have been raised in recent years about interactions with other medications. It has been shown to decrease the effectiveness of some lifesaving drugs, including those that fight cancer and AIDS, and drugs, such as cyclosporine, that prevent organ rejection after a transplant... study published in the fall of 2003 showed that taking the herbal supplement reduces the effectiveness of as many as half of all prescription and over-the-counter drugs...
>
> I know that there's an interaction with Xanax so would not even consider taking it until I was weaned off the Xanax (but probably would be okay taking Theanine while on the Xanax until I could wean off???).
>
> Also at:
>
> http://www.npicenter.com/anm/templates/newsATemp.aspx?articleid=11690&zoneid=41
> According to a randomized, double-blind, reference-controlled clinical study published today in the prestigious British Medical Journal, the proprietary St. John's Wort extract WS(R) 5570 is at least as effective in treating depression and better tolerated by patients than the widely prescribed anti-depressant paroxetine.(1)... n the U.S., an identical strength version of WS(R) 5570 is sold as a natural dietary supplement for promoting a positive mood, rather than a drug for the treatment of depression. This extract (WS(R) 5572) contains the same patented, standardized and stabilized hyperforin content as WS(R) 5570, and is marketed as Perika(R) St. John's Wort by Nature's Way Products, Inc., Springville, Utah. Perika(R) is available nationwide at health and nutrition retail outlets...
> http://store.yahoo.com/iherb/perika.html $8.00 and change for 60 tabs but at 300mg per tab and needing to take 900mgs, would need be like $25 for a 2-month supply... however this one IS cheaper at VitaCost...
> http://www.vitacost.com/Store/Products/ProductDescription.cfm?SKUNumber=033674065600&searchby=PN&SearchText=Perika
> $6.99 for 60 tabs but at 300mg per tab and needing to take 900mgs, would need be like $21 for a 2-month supply...
>
>
> Unfortunately all still speculation at this point as still awaiting word from psych doc in getting prescribed the Selegiline... am still hoping though to give the Selegiline and DLPA (and Vit B6, etc.) a chance.
>
> I'd sure like to make a posting like the last one from Pseudonym...
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20041211/msgs/430276.html
>
> Elroy
>
> P.S. Thanks for the information on THEANINE SERINE from Source Naturals. That sounds very promising. Will definitely look into it. BTWm iHerb has it much cheaper:
>
> http://store.yahoo.com/iherb/theanineserene1.html
>
> Plus a version with Relora (anti-cortisol) added in (that also is still cheaper)
>
> http://store.yahoo.com/iherb/theanineserene.html
>
> Serving size:2 Tablets
> Servings Per Container: 30
>
> Amount Per Serving
>
> Magnesium (as magnesium chelate) 300 mg
> GABA 500 mg
> Taurine 450 mg
> L-Theanine 200 mg
> Relora (a proprietary blend of patent pending plant extracts from Phellodendron amutense and Magnolia officinalis ) 150 mg
> Valerian Root Extract 100 mg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
Posted by world citizen on February 16, 2005, at 23:02:11
In reply to Re: Selegiline » world citizen, posted by Elroy on February 16, 2005, at 17:33:23
Hey Elroy (if that's your REAL name!!:)
There is a better sit to purchase Selegiline/Deprenyl. It's cheaper and only takes about a week to deliver AND it is a safe, reliable company. And the envelope please!
www.biogenesis.co.za.AND as far as the Theanine thanks for the heads-up in terms of finding a cheaper source!
World Citizen
Posted by world citizen on February 16, 2005, at 23:20:43
In reply to Re: Selegiline » world citizen, posted by Elroy on February 16, 2005, at 17:33:23
this is SOOOOOO cute! I just couldn't keep it to myself. It's from an internet thingy called Life-Support. (I think #7 is especially amusing!)
World Citizen
>SYMPTOMS OF INNER PEACE
>
>How would you rate your level of "Inner Peace"? Enough to stay
>calm in a den of lions? Enough to get through a good day? Enough
>for the next five minutes, so long as everybody leaves you alone?
>
>You may need a good case of inner peace, a disease that could
>leave you stress-free and contented for years to come. A
>chiropractor named Jeff Rockwell composed a list he calls
>"Symptoms of Inner Peace." You may have already caught this
>disease! See how many of these symptoms you exhibit:
>
>1. A tendency to think and act spontaneously rather than from
>fears based on past experiences.
>
>2. An unmistakable ability to enjoy each moment.
>
>3. A loss of interest in judging self.
>
>4. A loss of interest in judging others.
>
>5. A loss of interest in conflict.
>
>6. A loss of interest in interpreting the actions of others.
>
>7. A loss of ability to worry (this is a serious symptom).
>
>8. Frequent, overwhelming episodes of appreciation.
>
>9. Contented feelings of connectedness with others and nature.
>
>10. Frequent attacks of smiling through the eyes of the heart.
>
>11. Increasing susceptibility to love extended by others as well
>as the uncontrollable urge to extend it.
>
>12. An increasing tendency to let things happen.
>
>Inner peace is a communicable disease that could possibly infect
>your home or workplace. You may already be showing signs of it
>and quite possibly be passing it along to others! Rockwell warns:
>"If you have all or even most of the above symptoms, please be
>advised that your condition of PEACE may be so far advanced as to
>not be treatable."
>
>Have you caught it?
Posted by Elroy on February 17, 2005, at 10:38:27
In reply to Re: Selegiline, posted by world citizen on February 16, 2005, at 23:02:11
And "World Citizen" is???
Heh-heh-heh....
No problem with the better price site.
I've got a list of places I check with for supplement purchases. For general purposes, I check with VitaCost, VitaNet and iHerb. For more exotic stuff (though VitaNet may have it), I usualy check with 1Fast400 or Beyond A Century. For bulk stuff, usually 1fast400, SMI2LE, and Beyond a Century.
SMI2LE has some really good bulk prices but is having some business problems right now. Hope that things work out for him as I'd hate to see him fold. Nothing like good, strong competition!"Elroy"
P.S. I have recently heard about that outfit that you mentioned and they seemed very interesting but I didn't have any direct info on their reliability and credibility. Aren't they out of South Africa?
P.S. 2 Am going to hang in there for another week or two and give my psych doc a chance to prescribe this for me. With my insurance, I can get a three-month supply for a $20 co-pay with free shipping....
> Hey Elroy (if that's your REAL name!!:)
> There is a better sit to purchase Selegiline/Deprenyl. It's cheaper and only takes about a week to deliver AND it is a safe, reliable company. And the envelope please!
> www.biogenesis.co.za.
>
> AND as far as the Theanine thanks for the heads-up in terms of finding a cheaper source!
>
> World Citizen
Posted by world citizen on February 17, 2005, at 11:31:58
In reply to Re: Selegiline » world citizen, posted by Elroy on February 17, 2005, at 10:38:27
>
Okay, I looked up picamilone (WHATEVER the correct spelling is!) and it looks quite impressive. I've got a few questions for you. a) do you have any sites where this can be purchased WITHOUT exacerbating my already acute Financial Deficit Disorder? b)I already take a benzo to sleep (Atavan), my GABA receptors are going to be much more inclined to hold out for the benzo. Therefore, I conclude that I will need to titrate the dose i.e. ditch the benzo in order to take the unspellable substance mentioned above. So, MY question is what to I do about sleeping? Apparently taking higher doses of the picalilly :) will cause some CNS stimulation-WHATEVER! I've not gotten my Theanine yet, I ordered from that bulk vitamin place, opted to have it delivered US postal service (I thought they retired the Pony Express?), anyway it's not here so I'm going to order the Theanine Serine from the site you suggested. I think I'm just going to get some very concentrated valerian extract and take it with my melatonin, magnesium etc and see if that will help as I ,yet again, wean myself from one of the most addictive drugs known. SIGH!Oh yeah, the place in South Africa, according to my source, is reputable, reliable etc.
"World Citizen"
And "World Citizen" is???
>
> Heh-heh-heh....
>
> No problem with the better price site.
>
> I've got a list of places I check with for supplement purchases. For general purposes, I check with VitaCost, VitaNet and iHerb. For more exotic stuff (though VitaNet may have it), I usualy check with 1Fast400 or Beyond A Century. For bulk stuff, usually 1fast400, SMI2LE, and Beyond a Century.
> SMI2LE has some really good bulk prices but is having some business problems right now. Hope that things work out for him as I'd hate to see him fold. Nothing like good, strong competition!
>
> "Elroy"
>
> P.S. I have recently heard about that outfit that you mentioned and they seemed very interesting but I didn't have any direct info on their reliability and credibility. Aren't they out of South Africa?
>
> P.S. 2 Am going to hang in there for another week or two and give my psych doc a chance to prescribe this for me. With my insurance, I can get a three-month supply for a $20 co-pay with free shipping....
>
>
> > Hey Elroy (if that's your REAL name!!:)
> > There is a better sit to purchase Selegiline/Deprenyl. It's cheaper and only takes about a week to deliver AND it is a safe, reliable company. And the envelope please!
> > www.biogenesis.co.za.
> >
> > AND as far as the Theanine thanks for the heads-up in terms of finding a cheaper source!
> >
> > World Citizen
>
>
Posted by Elroy on February 17, 2005, at 12:39:58
In reply to Re: Selegiline, posted by world citizen on February 17, 2005, at 11:31:58
OK, you can get picamilon cheaply at a number of places at decent prices (and some at outrageous prices). SMI2LE is a very good priced store, but he is having some business problems right now and there could be a wait for your order.
http://www.smi2le.biz/Products.shtml
Some other very decent possibilities (and I'm talking bulk powder amounts in some cases here):
http://www.easycart.net/cgi-bin/BeyondACenturyInc./search.cgi
http://www.smart-nutrition.net/info-picamilon.htm
Also VG info on this page...http://www.biogenesis.co.za/pi-picamilone.asp
I put in my order thru BAC, but will probably order from SMI2LE when they get their act togetehr again....
BTW.... I am currently on Xanax XR. I plan on cutting my morning dose in half and taking reduced picamilon dosage in the AM and then take my regular Xanax XR dose in the PM. As I feel the Picamilon is working (as I see it, it is adding more GABA into the system rather than just maintianing the reduced levels that are there like the Ativan and Xanax do!), then I will reduce the PM dose for Xanax XR to 1/2 also, and add an early afternoon dose of Picamilon. After that I'll start weaning completely off the Xanax XR and replace it completely with the Picamilon.Elroy
P.S. Have you looked into Rhodiola Rscea at all? If you can find a copy of the book, would strongly recommend "The Rhodiola Revolution".
Posted by world citizen on February 17, 2005, at 16:15:43
In reply to Re: Selegiline » world citizen, posted by Elroy on February 17, 2005, at 12:39:58
>
Hey Elroy. Have you already started using the picamilon? I don't remember if you indicated this or not in previous posts. I did notice that at SMI2LE that they have a theanie/picamilon combination that sounds very attractive to me. But as you stated (wrote) they are currently having minor technical difficulties so I guess I'll see if I can find that combination elsewhere.I must say I feel a considerable amount of trepidation at going of the benzo again. The last time I had the help (?) of Neurontin but it appears to have left it's mark on my liver (raised liver enzyems). I so resent not being able to sleep without assistance. I'm very physically active and when I don't sleep, or only sleep minimally, I feel utterly limited. There is a study here in Sacramento for patients with fibromyalgisa (that would be me) using GHB-talk about something for the GABA receptors! I'm going to call the # but don't feel particulary hopeful due to my elevated liver enzymes, though they are only minimally so. I'd beter conclude this, I'm fighting the urge to go autobiographical!
one wistful World Citizen
OK, you can get picamilon cheaply at a number of places at decent prices (and some at outrageous prices). SMI2LE is a very good priced store, but he is having some business problems right now and there could be a wait for your order.
>
> http://www.smi2le.biz/Products.shtml
>
> Some other very decent possibilities (and I'm talking bulk powder amounts in some cases here):
>
> http://www.easycart.net/cgi-bin/BeyondACenturyInc./search.cgi
>
> http://www.smart-nutrition.net/info-picamilon.htm
> Also VG info on this page...
>
> http://www.biogenesis.co.za/pi-picamilone.asp
>
> I put in my order thru BAC, but will probably order from SMI2LE when they get their act togetehr again....
>
>
> BTW.... I am currently on Xanax XR. I plan on cutting my morning dose in half and taking reduced picamilon dosage in the AM and then take my regular Xanax XR dose in the PM. As I feel the Picamilon is working (as I see it, it is adding more GABA into the system rather than just maintianing the reduced levels that are there like the Ativan and Xanax do!), then I will reduce the PM dose for Xanax XR to 1/2 also, and add an early afternoon dose of Picamilon. After that I'll start weaning completely off the Xanax XR and replace it completely with the Picamilon.
>
> Elroy
>
> P.S. Have you looked into Rhodiola Rscea at all? If you can find a copy of the book, would strongly recommend "The Rhodiola Revolution".
Posted by world citizen on February 17, 2005, at 16:35:10
In reply to Re: Selegiline » world citizen, posted by Elroy on February 17, 2005, at 12:39:58
Hey, I don't know if you noticed this or not but there is a psycho-babble category "withdrawal".
I can already see the carpal-tunnel syndrome coming on!;)W.C.
Posted by world citizen on February 17, 2005, at 19:10:54
In reply to Re: Selegiline » world citizen, posted by Elroy on February 17, 2005, at 10:38:27
Hey Elroy. I forgot to share with you a very important aspect of my mental health program. This is a book by Eckhart Tolle called "The Power of Now". I've just been through the most difficutlt year in my entire life and the information I utilized from this book, in addition to vitamin G, has not only preserved my sanity but has brought me to a level of awareness and emotional/spiritual maturity that I never imagined possible.
And another thing... If my posts were sounding progressively morbid that's because I scared myself thinking about my eventual weaning from the benzo. I've got a court thing going on (civil) and have NO intention of even cutting down until THAT is over, which should be in another month or two. Using the information in the book coupled with the power of faith I just talked myself out of a mounting anxiety attack!!!
Elroy, it sure is good to know that there is somebody else out there that's trying to deal with this crap!World Citizen
Posted by Elroy on February 18, 2005, at 19:30:34
In reply to Re: Selegiline, posted by world citizen on February 17, 2005, at 16:15:43
Just got the Picamilon in today. Will start tomorrow.
Hey, seeing as how you have fibromyalgisa symptoms, I really think that you should check out the book "The Edge Effect" by that Dr. Braverman. On page 120 he lists fibromyalgisa as a specific response to a severe GABA deficiency. On his 1 to 10 scale, he rates that at the 7 range... 1 beinging the mildest and 10 being the worst.
In my case, I also suffer from neuropathic type pains (severe in the feet).
There's some speculation in my case that my highly elevated cortisol levels are damaging the nerve endings through the cortisol's toxicity. But maybe it's also from GABA deficiency - or just from GABA deficiency... I've got the high anxiety levels to corroborate the likely GABA deficiency.
Anyway, Dr. Braverman also lists neuropathy as a results of severe GABA deficiency, listing it also at 7 on that 1 to 10 scale!
I don't believe that there's any info that any of the particular supplements that we've been discussing will cause liver enzyme or functioning problems....
Nothing I've come across anyway.
Elroy
> >
> Hey Elroy. Have you already started using the picamilon? I don't remember if you indicated this or not in previous posts. I did notice that at SMI2LE that they have a theanie/picamilon combination that sounds very attractive to me. But as you stated (wrote) they are currently having minor technical difficulties so I guess I'll see if I can find that combination elsewhere.
>
> I must say I feel a considerable amount of trepidation at going of the benzo again. The last time I had the help (?) of Neurontin but it appears to have left it's mark on my liver (raised liver enzyems). I so resent not being able to sleep without assistance. I'm very physically active and when I don't sleep, or only sleep minimally, I feel utterly limited. There is a study here in Sacramento for patients with fibromyalgisa (that would be me) using GHB-talk about something for the GABA receptors! I'm going to call the # but don't feel particulary hopeful due to my elevated liver enzymes, though they are only minimally so. I'd beter conclude this, I'm fighting the urge to go autobiographical!
>
> one wistful World Citizen
>
>
> OK, you can get picamilon cheaply at a number of places at decent prices (and some at outrageous prices). SMI2LE is a very good priced store, but he is having some business problems right now and there could be a wait for your order.
> >
> > http://www.smi2le.biz/Products.shtml
> >
> > Some other very decent possibilities (and I'm talking bulk powder amounts in some cases here):
> >
> > http://www.easycart.net/cgi-bin/BeyondACenturyInc./search.cgi
> >
> > http://www.smart-nutrition.net/info-picamilon.htm
> > Also VG info on this page...
> >
> > http://www.biogenesis.co.za/pi-picamilone.asp
> >
> > I put in my order thru BAC, but will probably order from SMI2LE when they get their act togetehr again....
> >
> >
> > BTW.... I am currently on Xanax XR. I plan on cutting my morning dose in half and taking reduced picamilon dosage in the AM and then take my regular Xanax XR dose in the PM. As I feel the Picamilon is working (as I see it, it is adding more GABA into the system rather than just maintianing the reduced levels that are there like the Ativan and Xanax do!), then I will reduce the PM dose for Xanax XR to 1/2 also, and add an early afternoon dose of Picamilon. After that I'll start weaning completely off the Xanax XR and replace it completely with the Picamilon.
> >
> > Elroy
> >
> > P.S. Have you looked into Rhodiola Rscea at all? If you can find a copy of the book, would strongly recommend "The Rhodiola Revolution".
>
>
Posted by Elroy on February 18, 2005, at 19:35:56
In reply to Re: Selegiline, posted by world citizen on February 17, 2005, at 16:15:43
Not sure if I mentioned this possibility to you or not, but I started looking into Brain Wave Generators and Binaural Beat Brainwaves as erlates to anxiety, depression and pain control. In researching that and downloading some stuff, I came across some interesting information on a technology called "Cranial Electrotherapy Stimulation".
While finding some interesting results with Brain Wave generator effects (Binaural Beat Brainwaves), am becoming more convinced that there's definitely something to the CES technology. CES is an FDA registered treatment modality that is FDA approved for anxiety, depression, and some types of chronic pain.
This is NOT to be confused with Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT), or with "Transcranial Magnetic Simulation" but is a completely different therapy from either of those.
See:
http://www.alpha-stim.com/Information/Technology/Protocol/Introduction_A/MET
http://www.alpha-stim.com/Information/Technology/Protocol/Introduction_A/ME
http://members.aol.com/bioelectric2002/website.htm
http://neurodynamicstrategies.com/ces.html
http://www.excel.net/%7Ejaguar/ces-info.html
http://www.drdebe.com/CRANIAL.htm
This particular following segment deals with pain therapy rather than anxiety or depression, but shows such a strong response that I felt it to be an excellent example. Remember, CES is technically approved by the FDA as treatment for "anxiety, depression, and insomnia", but more and more newer studies are researching it for pain relief purposes.
http://www.harborside.com/~aspenmed/page10.htm
QUOTE: Archives of Otolaryngology, 109(6):382-383, 1983... This is an early report of Alpha-Stim results on severe intractable cancer pain that failed to achieve relief with "heavy medication" and surgery conducted by the Division of Otolaryngology, Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine, and the Veterans Administration Medical Center in Cleveland, Ohio. The author states that the 3 cases anecdotally presented are representative of similar cases treated by Alpha-Stim. without exception, in every case there was a positive effect in decreasing pain. Objectively, these patients could be followed up by the amount of pain medication they required... In case 1, a 58 year old man had squamous cell carcinoma of the laryngeopharynx staged at T4N2M0, full course radiation therapy and radical neck dissection. After failing to achieve pain relief with 7 mg of morphine sulfate every 4 hours along with various sedatives, he achieved complete relief without medication at all for one week following 3 daily, 10 minute Alpha-Stim treatments of 500 microamps at 0.5 Hz, and then was maintained pain free with Alpha-Stim treatments every 3 days for 1 minute. Case 2, a 54 year old man who also had a neck dissection and radiation for a T3NOMO lesion of the larynx, and a primary squamous cell tumor of the left lung, required a combination of codeine, zomepirac sodium (Zomax), and amitriptyline hydrochloride (Elavil), which provided little relief. After 6 minutes of Alpha-Stim treatment he had complete relief of pain for 50 hours, after which further treatment caused the pain to disappear again. Case 3 was a 59 year old man who had a T4N1MO squamous cell carcinoma of the base of the tongue and supraglottis. Codeine and meperidine failed to completely control his severe pain radiating to both ears. The pain was completely relieved for 8 hours after 12 minutes of Alpha-Stim treatment. The second treatment pain relief lasted 24 hours. The author noted that the longevity of the results was especially encouraging. In every case pain relief lasted at least 8 hours, and in case 2, the effect lasted more than 3 weeks. There was no indication of side effects, and usually there was no sensation of the electrical stimulus. The positive results are unquestionable, and this form of electrical stimulation should not be confused with TENS.
http://darwinpharmacy.com/ref-anxiety-008/anxiety-008-research-abs3.99.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieveids=11455071&dopt=Abstract>;
http://www.alpha-stim.com/Information/Products/Educational/CES_Excerpt/Chapter_9/chapter_9.html
In the book "The Edge Effect", Dr. Eric Braverman discussed brain enhancers and specifically brain neurotransmitters (serotonin, dopamine, etc.). Overall a very good book - and it answered a lot of lingering questions that I had. Would strongly, strongly recommend the reading of this book!
What I found very interesting was that Dr. Braverman mentions the CES technology three different times in his book (all in a very positive vein) and apparently uses it in his own private practice also.
http://www.edgeeffect.org/cranial_electrical_stimulation.htm
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.