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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by taylor18 on December 16, 2003, at 5:03:07
What are the best supplements to take for profound shyness? I'd like to be taken out of myself :-). I couldn't find much online relating to this. Anyhow, I feel it interferes with what I'd like to be doing. I don't/can't do what feels natural/right because I'm thinking so much about what the other person is thinking. I'd really like to get rid of this problem.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 16, 2003, at 10:01:01
In reply to Extreme Shyness, posted by taylor18 on December 16, 2003, at 5:03:07
> What are the best supplements to take for profound shyness? I'd like to be taken out of myself :-). I couldn't find much online relating to this. Anyhow, I feel it interferes with what I'd like to be doing. I don't/can't do what feels natural/right because I'm thinking so much about what the other person is thinking. I'd really like to get rid of this problem.
I think your best strategy is cognitive. If you use a substance, you'll never gain confidence that you can do it, all by yourself.
I am pathologically shy. But you wouldn't know that today. If you met me, you'd gain quite a different impression of me. Yet deep inside, that kernel of shyness remains. It is a trait, an inborn characteristic. But, via cognitive coping strategies, I am no longer substantially impaired by it.
One of the first things that helped me, and gave me the insight to see that cognitive tools are useful for shyness, was when a friend said to me, "You wouldn't worry so much about what people thought of you, if you realized how seldom they did."
Lar
Posted by NoMotic on December 16, 2003, at 11:42:47
In reply to Re: Extreme Shyness » taylor18, posted by Larry Hoover on December 16, 2003, at 10:01:01
> I think your best strategy is cognitive. If you use a substance, you'll never gain confidence that you can do it, all by yourself.
>
I disagree with this partially, based on my own experience. I am "shy" when I use caffeine, period. I think the raised cortisol levels that accompanies daily caffeine use messes me up... reducing prefrontal cortex dopamine. In other words, making me slower in the mind. That coupled with the anxious feeling of caffeine makes me inhibited, period. However, maybe shy is indeed the wrong term to use here. I am not really scared of what people think of me... rather, when I use too much caffeine and get that "inhibited" or "passive" feeling (shyness?) I tend to just not desire to talk to people. I feel a bit awkward, as a baseline state, though I do not really care what people think. I don't know if that makes sense, but I have trouble explaining it any other way.In addition, when I choose to use caffeine, i need a good deal of sleep to feel outgoing and not shy (again, maybe wrong term?). Here's an example. In one of my math classes at school, I did not get a lot of sleep and as a result, I wasn't an active participator in class. Even when I knew the answer to a problem, i wouldn't raise my hand, simply because I didn't feel like it... I might have felt slightly awkward. However, when I get a lot of sleep and my mental speed is quick as lightning, I am significantly less shy feeling. In fact, the few times I have gotten a lot of sleep, I participate A LOT in class. I think this is due to refreshed dopamine levels after lots of sleep, which override that inhibited state. So am I shy? I don't know. But I do know I can make myself "inhibited" through caffeine use and lack of sleep.
I have experience with many supplements, and I consider Kava to be the #1 shyness reducing supplement. Of course, watch for liver problems, dont use with alcohol, etc. It makes me much more friendlier and outgoing, reduces that inhibited feeling, and increases my mental speed. # 2 behind kava would be lemon balm and shizandra, from my experience. # 3 would be 5-HTP, but that makes me feel different than the first 3. 5-HTP doesn't increase my mental speed, but rather it dissolves that tense feelings from too much caffeine. Its not as good as the first 3 for making me more outgoing.
> I am pathologically shy. But you wouldn't know that today. If you met me, you'd gain quite a different impression of me. Yet deep inside, that kernel of shyness remains. It is a trait, an inborn characteristic. But, via cognitive coping strategies, I am no longer substantially impaired by it.I agree that this can help, though. In fact, once graduating high school, I developed my own coping strategies and it helped. Important point however: I wasn't using caffeine, my anxiety levels were lowER (not low, nor high), and all I had to do was harness that inborn cognitive plasticity, and was able to change myself like Hoover says. It's possible, but much more possible in someone who tends to be on the less shy side naturally. Plus, many other factors go into "shyness". I feel less shy on days that I feel I look good and well-groomed. Shy? Ahh, I might choose to fully not care when I do look like crap, but I feel more confident when I look good.
>
> One of the first things that helped me, and gave me the insight to see that cognitive tools are useful for shyness, was when a friend said to me, "You wouldn't worry so much about what people thought of you, if you realized how seldom they did."Again, I agree. Though one can be naturally shy or naturally extroverted, one still has the choice of whether or not to care. Though I will sometimes describe myself as feeling awkward or inhibited when I use too much caffeine, I try my best to not care what people think, and indeed this helps. Just the same, when I lower my caffeine, my natural disinhibited side takes over and I can further this attitude of not caring into an extroverted personality. But because caffeine sometimes lowers my overall mental speed if I use too much, I sometimes simply have nothing to say - nothing is in my brain to say... which comes off as shyness, but in fact, my brain isn't producing any extroverted-ness to show to others.
Posted by KellyD on December 16, 2003, at 16:56:03
In reply to Re: Extreme Shyness, posted by NoMotic on December 16, 2003, at 11:42:47
If your findings with caffeine are as you state... Why do you use it at all?
I miss it awfully, but have found not having it at all is the best way to go. I was a java junkie big time!!
Not judging, just curious...
Kelly
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 16, 2003, at 18:47:09
In reply to Uh, just a question... » NoMotic, posted by KellyD on December 16, 2003, at 16:56:03
I find I need coffee to be friendly and out going. Strange one person poison is another's medicine. If I don't do caffine I get real vulnerable and sensitive. I am sharper mentally and more aggressive with coffee. I feel defended. I have given it up and taken it back into my life. I am currently doing it only once a day. It has an awesome energy that lasts for 24 hours. I am in awe of it. Java god! One of the minor gods but very potent. Should I be on the Faith site?
Posted by NoMotic on December 16, 2003, at 22:30:43
In reply to Uh, just a question... » NoMotic, posted by KellyD on December 16, 2003, at 16:56:03
Hopefully this does not contradict what I've said before... caffeine, for me, is useful for motivation + interest + feeling awake. The side effects being introversion. At times, the motivation of a few cups of green tea strongly outweighs the benefits of feeling relaxed around other people, know what I mean?
In addition, the brain slowing effects I describe happen after chronically excess caffeine usage. It does not happen when I limit my usage to a morning caffeine dose... or at least, enough for me to care.
My point is that caffeine can make one inhibited + slow in the mind if used in excess. The morning caffeine however does make me more outgoing in certain ways - more energetic and outgoing in familiar situations, but im definitely more inhibited in new situations. At work I am definitely more outgoing w. caffeine, but at school, definitely not because i dont know most of those people well.
Posted by taylor18 on December 17, 2003, at 2:34:06
In reply to Extreme Shyness, posted by taylor18 on December 16, 2003, at 5:03:07
Thank you both Larry and NoMotic.
It's good we all agree that pathological shyness is inborn, however, I'd like to think its correctable at its root, through supplements. After the fact cognitive-behavioural practices work for some, but I've personally never benefited much. I used to work with a bioenergetic psychologist, and that was his preferred method of reducing my shyness. However, that quote you gave, Larry, struck me on reading it, and I'm definately going to try it.
It's interesting, NoMotic, reading your thorough description of your own shyness. Having such a deep level of self-awareness goes hand in hand with the shyness. Like you said, feeling foggy, awkward, not having verbal fluidity can lock someone up inside. I experience it that way as well.
I think that the answer to this problem is through a regimen of supplements and possibly dietary changes, like elimination of gluten and casein, and adoption of a paleolithic diet. One experience has led me to thinking supplements are so very powerful in this domain - Fish oil.
I've tried 4 brands of fish oil, SuperCritical DHA, OmegaBrite, Eskimo-3, and Nature's Pharmaceuticals. The former 3 make me too hyper, however, the latter brand is just perfect. Unfortunately, I'm out of it right now.
It has a marked anti-depressant effect. I'm also able to take things more at face value, instead of reading into things or creating unlikely, highly speculative motives and backgrounds of information thats presented to me. It calms my mind. This brand is not fish oil exactly, just the EPA and DHA. Also, I notice, or there's a part of me that notices, I'm not inside myself anymore. I'm more in reality. Of course, I don't have the same level of self-focus so that's why I say a part of me :) I'm also considering krill oil, as its the 'ideal brain food':
http://www.gudmundur.com/krilloil.phpsee PDF file on page*
Coconut oil also seems to give me mental and physical energy.
So I'm very interested in trying fish oil, krill oil, and coconut oil (raw saturated fat) all together. I think the results could be profound.
Ok, this reply got kind of off-track here.
NoMotic, I ready that Kava Kava raises dopamine, as does marijuana. Marijuana always made me less inhibited, but always more so after a couple days of stopping smoking it.
Posted by KellyD on December 17, 2003, at 7:27:09
In reply to Re: Uh, just a question..., posted by NoMotic on December 16, 2003, at 22:30:43
Thanks for your answer... I was just curious.... or prehaps, nosy is a better word. Thanks for clarification.
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