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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 13, 2013, at 17:25:46
In reply to Re: no return, posted by rjlockhart37 on August 13, 2013, at 12:11:12
> it can hurt sometimes on babble, but it can change, babble can change ... its all how someone posts, i've said things in a way people don't like, thats why i changed the format....
Exactly. Be the change!
Bob
Posted by Moishe Pipik on August 14, 2013, at 13:29:42
In reply to Re: change, posted by Dr. Bob on August 13, 2013, at 17:25:46
> Exactly. Be the change!
>
> BobThat is so adorable. And likely to be about as effective as Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No".
I don't think platitudes are of any help here.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 14, 2013, at 16:38:25
In reply to Re: change » Dr. Bob, posted by Moishe Pipik on August 14, 2013, at 13:29:42
It does sound kinda corny, huh. But then I see how he feels caught between a rock and a hard place sometimes. Like if he makes a decision one way then one group of people will be upset and probably stop participating in the support aspect of the site, and if he makes a decision the other way then another group of people will be upset and probably stop participating in the support aspect of the site. I think it is pretty much a miracle that he sticks around.
If he becomes more lenient some will be upset because they liked it when he was less lenient. Others will be upset because they don't like change and feel there is inconsistency / unreliability. If he doesn't change then others will feel upset at his inflexibility. Some people feel that they deserve his loyalty because they have demonstrated loyalty in staying and being good. Other people feel that they deserve his loyalty because they have demonstrated loyalty in returning after lengthy enforced absences.
And while all that goes on what is happening on the other boards?
The boards will become what we make them.
Posted by Moishe Pipik on August 14, 2013, at 17:33:25
In reply to Re: change, posted by alexandra_k on August 14, 2013, at 16:38:25
> It does sound kinda corny, huh. But then I see how he feels caught between a rock and a hard place sometimes. Like if he makes a decision one way then one group of people will be upset and probably stop participating in the support aspect of the site, and if he makes a decision the other way then another group of people will be upset and probably stop participating in the support aspect of the site. I think it is pretty much a miracle that he sticks around.
>
> If he becomes more lenient some will be upset because they liked it when he was less lenient. Others will be upset because they don't like change and feel there is inconsistency / unreliability. If he doesn't change then others will feel upset at his inflexibility. Some people feel that they deserve his loyalty because they have demonstrated loyalty in staying and being good. Other people feel that they deserve his loyalty because they have demonstrated loyalty in returning after lengthy enforced absences.
>
> And while all that goes on what is happening on the other boards?
>
> The boards will become what we make them.Very much like politics - you can please some of the people sometimes.
Yes, the boards will become what we make of them. But, like with our fractured American "culture", they won't be anything worthwhile without a great deal of tolerance. As with culture, people want things to be their way, and feel it's OK to insist that others do so. Only with the acceptance that this is unreasonable and impossible will any true dialogue occur. In society, people want stupid laws to guarantee their way; with Babble, it's the "report" button and the rules. It seems so simple to too many that rules fix things. That's not simple; it's simplistic. People need to learn the value of DOING NOTHING. Every perceived slight can't be mollified. Every perceived transgression can't be punished. Just like in real life, one can choose to be upset about things they don't like to see/hear or one can accept that there are reasonable limits to their desire for a controlled environment. Unfortunately, those same folks refuse to examine their unbending belief that they are right to expect this, and expect that others should be coerced to conform.
The true nature of pluralism involves letting a LOT of stuff pass without action to stop it or prevent it.
It's just like marriage/family/friendship - people will say and do stuff that you don't like, but what right do you have to tell them what not to do or say? It's only when we realize that our family, etc. doesn't have to mirror us in order for there to be communication, love and peace. It's not their responsibility to change for us; it's our responsibility not to expect it.
Posted by Phillipa on August 14, 2013, at 18:53:58
In reply to Re: change, posted by Moishe Pipik on August 14, 2013, at 17:33:25
Can please some of the people some of the time but not all people all of the time. Phillipa
Posted by alexandra_k on August 15, 2013, at 2:51:46
In reply to Re: change, posted by alexandra_k on August 14, 2013, at 16:38:25
and i guess it is hard too because people pull. and make sides. me vs everyone else or me vs them or me vs lou or whatever. and make it personal. it is hard not to take things personally, though, i understand that.
the reason i need so much time away from people is because i haven't a hope in hell of figuring out what is going on with ME and what it is that i need otherwise.
and in some respects... i'm different enough from most of the people i've been around most of my life... for it to be crucially important that i do more of what is right of me and less of what is right for others.
i've come to learn...
my going around 'what is wrong with me, what is wrong with me?' only attracts people who are perfectly willing to speak up about what is wrong with me: it invariably turns out to be whatever it is about me that makes me different from them. anything they don't like... they wish they could change... those things... become what they are perfectly willing to see is what is wrong with me.
those that are most willing to help are those who are most unable / most incompetent / most out for their own interests. those who are least willing... are those who probably have more of an idea just what kind of a problem child i am so are quick to avoid.
or something.
blah.
i miss my t. even though he was incapable of thinking of me outside the present session (clearly my problem is my inability to be in the moment).
grr.
sigh.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 16, 2013, at 2:53:41
In reply to Re: change, posted by Moishe Pipik on August 14, 2013, at 17:33:25
> As with culture, people want things to be their way, and feel it's OK to insist that others do so. Only with the acceptance that this is unreasonable and impossible will any true dialogue occur. In society, people want stupid laws to guarantee their way; with Babble, it's the "report" button and the rules. It seems so simple to too many that rules fix things. That's not simple; it's simplistic. People need to learn the value of DOING NOTHING.
>
> It's just like marriage/family/friendship - people will say and do stuff that you don't like, but what right do you have to tell them what not to do or say? It's only when we realize that our family, etc. doesn't have to mirror us in order for there to be communication, love and peace. It's not their responsibility to change for us; it's our responsibility not to expect it.Rules don't fix everything, but they do fix some things. Sometimes it's best to do nothing, but sometimes it's best to do something.
Others will do stuff you don't like. You can tell them what not to do, or you can accept what they did -- or you can use an I-statement to tell them how it affected you and start a true dialogue.
Bob
Posted by Moishe Pipik on August 16, 2013, at 8:45:37
In reply to Re: change, posted by Dr. Bob on August 16, 2013, at 2:53:41
> > As with culture, people want things to be their way, and feel it's OK to insist that others do so. Only with the acceptance that this is unreasonable and impossible will any true dialogue occur. In society, people want stupid laws to guarantee their way; with Babble, it's the "report" button and the rules. It seems so simple to too many that rules fix things. That's not simple; it's simplistic. People need to learn the value of DOING NOTHING.
> >
> > It's just like marriage/family/friendship - people will say and do stuff that you don't like, but what right do you have to tell them what not to do or say? It's only when we realize that our family, etc. doesn't have to mirror us in order for there to be communication, love and peace. It's not their responsibility to change for us; it's our responsibility not to expect it.
>
> Rules don't fix everything, but they do fix some things. Sometimes it's best to do nothing, but sometimes it's best to do something.
>
> Others will do stuff you don't like. You can tell them what not to do, or you can accept what they did -- or you can use an I-statement to tell them how it affected you and start a true dialogue.
>
> BobYes, Bob, that's what I'm talking about. I think it's about learning to live in all that grey between the black and the white, which is an almost constant state of cognizant dissonance. It's not really such a bad place to be, once you start to accept the basic reality of it.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 20, 2013, at 10:40:52
In reply to Re: change » Dr. Bob, posted by Moishe Pipik on August 16, 2013, at 8:45:37
> Yes, Bob, that's what I'm talking about. I think it's about learning to live in all that grey between the black and the white, which is an almost constant state of cognizant dissonance. It's not really such a bad place to be, once you start to accept the basic reality of it.
I agree. But what if someone doesn't like dissonance?
Bob
Posted by Moishe Pipik on August 20, 2013, at 13:29:21
In reply to Re: change, posted by Dr. Bob on August 20, 2013, at 10:40:52
> I agree. But what if someone doesn't like dissonance?
>I'd recommend they go back and re-take Reality 101
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 22, 2013, at 1:53:23
In reply to Re: change, posted by Moishe Pipik on August 20, 2013, at 13:29:21
> > > I think it's about learning to live in all that grey between the black and the white, which is an almost constant state of cognizant dissonance. It's not really such a bad place to be, once you start to accept the basic reality of it.
> >
> > I agree. But what if someone doesn't like dissonance?
>
> I'd recommend they go back and re-take Reality 101And if it's a subject they have difficulty with?
Bob
Posted by Moishe Pipik on August 22, 2013, at 9:22:32
In reply to Re: change, posted by Dr. Bob on August 22, 2013, at 1:53:23
> > I'd recommend they go back and re-take Reality 101
>
> And if it's a subject they have difficulty with?
>
> BobLike many things, we all have some level of difficulty with it, although on different places on a continuum. Licit and illicit drugs seem to be popular for denial of reality; doctors and dealers are more than happy to supply the need.
This is the end of the thread.
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