![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 106 to 130 of 179. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2013, at 14:37:09
In reply to Re: feeling disempowered, posted by Twinleaf on May 11, 2013, at 13:15:43
Friends,
If yiu are considering being a discussant in this thread or parallel threads, I am requesting that you examine the following.
You will see a short list of fallacies in reasoning that show how errors in reasoning make a conclusion invalid.
In particular, but not limited to, I would like for you to examine under II, Fallacies in reasoning, the section "E" 1-4.
Lou
http://web.gccaz.edu/~kshinema/FALLACIES.HTML
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2013, at 15:01:37
In reply to Lou's request, posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2013, at 14:37:09
Friends,
If you are considering being a discussant in this thread or parallel threads, I am requesting that you read the following.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20101230/msgs/997025.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2013, at 15:26:51
In reply to Lou's request to discussants, posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2013, at 15:01:37
Friends,
If you are considering being a discussant in this thread, I am requesting for you to read the following. This IMHHHO could help you understand a lot of the posts here that you may not be aware of as to the underlying issues involved here.
Lou
To see this post go to the search box at the bottom of this page and type in:
[admin,1030171]
look for the 1030171 in the colored strip url
Posted by Willful on May 11, 2013, at 17:42:37
In reply to Re: feeling disempowered, posted by Dr. Bob on May 11, 2013, at 12:42:36
Obviously we all have noticed that Bob seems very invested in trying to focus us on the idea that we all have something, or perhaps various things, in common with Lou.
But I wonder why this is such an issue. Even if I have something, say a fear of some terrible effect from taking anti-depressants and that some poster also has a fear that ADs cause terrible effects. This has some rationality-- ADs can in rare cases cause very destructive side effects--but it can also take on an irrational quality, which is itself destructive-- and to a degree that it would even terrify me into refusing a drug that would help.
The initial insight might make me open to realizing how much I share with this poster-- and therefore to feeling a sense of community with him or her. But the form these fears take, and the actions that the other person undertakes in response to the fears may be in fact very harmful to me. In fact, someone with similar fears to oneself can present a danger, if their fears are irrational or if they believe that giving voice to the worst fears and indeed adumbrating them is the best way to cope.
So I suppose I might have a fear of taking dangerous drugs, and a conflicting fear of not taking a drug that I desperately need. The only hope I have I guess is to believe that I am capable of some sort of insight-- or of seeing through these unbalancing hopes and fears to a best judgment.So maybe what Bob is saying is that the push and pull of the community gives voice to posters' tangle of emotions-- and that Lou represents the fears while others of us represent the hopes-- or the hard-fought judgments we've come to through the conflict of these. And as such, perhaps we should tolerate his invective against drugs-- since dangers do exist.
Of course it would be more comfortable if Lou had what I suppose I consider sound judgment--something closer to a moderate view-- even if he were more wary of drugs or more pessimistic about their usefulness. But also, we can't order up our opposing views---
I don't know. I think we can all understand how hard is for us to hear Lou's comments-- because we've fought our way through fears, disappointments, etc about drugs-- and find his animadversions disturbing, depressing reminders of something in ourselves.
And we all might therefore question our own reactions to him-- and our fears (or my fear anyway) that he will harm other posters-- or drive away potential fellow sufferers in a community where we are a bit forlorn.
And yet--- well--- is there any possibility that he could frighten people who might be considering taking drugs? Is someone on a message board that powerful in the face of other voices?-- when it's really the internal struggle in each of us that leads to our ultimate judgments?
well anyway-- sorry for rambling. I suppose I understand Bob's point-- but perhaps, one doesn't know-- if he has never gone through this process of struggle about taking drugs-- does he really understand ours?
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2013, at 18:21:58
In reply to Lou's response Mr Hsiung's reference-l, posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2013, at 8:49:33
> > > > > > So be it as it may be, let us look at the following post here by Mr Hsiung about me.
> > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130109/msgs/1043225.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lou
> > > > >
> > > > > Although not explicitly referring to you, it was an unfortunate choice of words.
> > > > >
> > > > > - Scott
> > > >
> > > > I was referring to depression, not to Lou. And "The Wizard of Babble" was referring to, of all things, feeling powerless (while being seen as powerful).
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > >
> > > Friends,
> > > It is written here,[...I was referring to depression...]
> > Let us first understand that the crfiteria for what can be known by what is contained in a post here is something like:
> > [...Not until I see it can I know it...]
> > This means that the stetament could be thought to mean that if it can be seen, others can know it. It cold also be construed to mean IMHO that:
> > IF IT CAN'T BE SEEN, THAT ONE CAN NOT KNOW IT (caps mine)
> > so let us look at gardenergirl's post which could bring out what I think is of great importance here, for what gardenergirl saw, she posted this:
> > Lou
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20120228/msgs/1031964.html
> >
>
> Friends,
> What can be seen, and what can not be seen, that is the question. I come to save lives here, not to give praise to anyone. What is posted here could live after it is posted, the archives can be resurrected to other's homes. So let it be with this post here, for if what can not be seen is allowed to be said to be seen, then any post could be changed to mean what is not there.
> Here is the post in question. Let us see what can be seen and what can not be seen.
> Lou
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130109/msgs/1043225.htmlFriends,
Let us look at the statement in question:
[...I wish I could keep The Prince of Death away. I hope others here could help you offset him and you could do the same for them...].
Now let us examine some important aspects of the statement that may be unbeknownst to you. Do you know where this statement came from?
Let us look at this post. In the following, the poster uses {go away} in connection with me. The importance of the grammatical structure of all of this goes to what can be seen and what can not be seen. Now let's look at {go away} in this post.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20120228/msgs/1030526.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2013, at 20:35:42
In reply to Lou's respone to Mr Hsiung's reference-gauxawhey, posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2013, at 18:21:58
> > > > > > > So be it as it may be, let us look at the following post here by Mr Hsiung about me.
> > > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130109/msgs/1043225.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Although not explicitly referring to you, it was an unfortunate choice of words.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Scott
> > > > >
> > > > > I was referring to depression, not to Lou. And "The Wizard of Babble" was referring to, of all things, feeling powerless (while being seen as powerful).
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob
> > > >
> > > > Friends,
> > > > It is written here,[...I was referring to depression...]
> > > Let us first understand that the crfiteria for what can be known by what is contained in a post here is something like:
> > > [...Not until I see it can I know it...]
> > > This means that the stetament could be thought to mean that if it can be seen, others can know it. It cold also be construed to mean IMHO that:
> > > IF IT CAN'T BE SEEN, THAT ONE CAN NOT KNOW IT (caps mine)
> > > so let us look at gardenergirl's post which could bring out what I think is of great importance here, for what gardenergirl saw, she posted this:
> > > Lou
> > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20120228/msgs/1031964.html
> > >
> >
> > Friends,
> > What can be seen, and what can not be seen, that is the question. I come to save lives here, not to give praise to anyone. What is posted here could live after it is posted, the archives can be resurrected to other's homes. So let it be with this post here, for if what can not be seen is allowed to be said to be seen, then any post could be changed to mean what is not there.
> > Here is the post in question. Let us see what can be seen and what can not be seen.
> > Lou
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130109/msgs/1043225.html
>
> Friends,
> Let us look at the statement in question:
> [...I wish I could keep The Prince of Death away. I hope others here could help you offset him and you could do the same for them...].
> Now let us examine some important aspects of the statement that may be unbeknownst to you. Do you know where this statement came from?
> Let us look at this post. In the following, the poster uses {go away} in connection with me. The importance of the grammatical structure of all of this goes to what can be seen and what can not be seen. Now let's look at {go away} in this post.
> Lou
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20120228/msgs/1030526.htmlFriends,
Now to identify what can be seen about the Prince of Death. Where did that come from?
Here is a post that could give some understanding to that. You see, the Prince of Death has the potential to be considered IMHO by some as a perversion of The Prince of Peace.
Lou
Here is a post that I would like for interested readers to see. To see this post go to the search box at the bottom of this page and type in:
[admin,1030546]
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2013, at 21:18:16
In reply to Re: feeling disempowered, posted by Willful on May 11, 2013, at 17:42:37
> Obviously we all have noticed that Bob seems very invested in trying to focus us on the idea that we all have something, or perhaps various things, in common with Lou.
>
> But I wonder why this is such an issue. Even if I have something, say a fear of some terrible effect from taking anti-depressants and that some poster also has a fear that ADs cause terrible effects. This has some rationality-- ADs can in rare cases cause very destructive side effects--but it can also take on an irrational quality, which is itself destructive-- and to a degree that it would even terrify me into refusing a drug that would help.
>
> The initial insight might make me open to realizing how much I share with this poster-- and therefore to feeling a sense of community with him or her. But the form these fears take, and the actions that the other person undertakes in response to the fears may be in fact very harmful to me. In fact, someone with similar fears to oneself can present a danger, if their fears are irrational or if they believe that giving voice to the worst fears and indeed adumbrating them is the best way to cope.
>
>
> So I suppose I might have a fear of taking dangerous drugs, and a conflicting fear of not taking a drug that I desperately need. The only hope I have I guess is to believe that I am capable of some sort of insight-- or of seeing through these unbalancing hopes and fears to a best judgment.
>
> So maybe what Bob is saying is that the push and pull of the community gives voice to posters' tangle of emotions-- and that Lou represents the fears while others of us represent the hopes-- or the hard-fought judgments we've come to through the conflict of these. And as such, perhaps we should tolerate his invective against drugs-- since dangers do exist.
>
> Of course it would be more comfortable if Lou had what I suppose I consider sound judgment--something closer to a moderate view-- even if he were more wary of drugs or more pessimistic about their usefulness. But also, we can't order up our opposing views---
>
> I don't know. I think we can all understand how hard is for us to hear Lou's comments-- because we've fought our way through fears, disappointments, etc about drugs-- and find his animadversions disturbing, depressing reminders of something in ourselves.
>
> And we all might therefore question our own reactions to him-- and our fears (or my fear anyway) that he will harm other posters-- or drive away potential fellow sufferers in a community where we are a bit forlorn.
>
> And yet--- well--- is there any possibility that he could frighten people who might be considering taking drugs? Is someone on a message board that powerful in the face of other voices?-- when it's really the internal struggle in each of us that leads to our ultimate judgments?
>
> well anyway-- sorry for rambling. I suppose I understand Bob's point-- but perhaps, one doesn't know-- if he has never gone through this process of struggle about taking drugs-- does he really understand ours?
>
> Friends,
I have come here to save lives and prevent life-ruining conditions and addictions. And I am asking those interested in what Willful has posted about me here to read the following so that you could have more information to make a more informed decision as to what you may post here. To see this post, go to the bottom of the page and type in the search box:
[admin,1030171]
>
>
>
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2013, at 21:20:41
In reply to Lou's request-ceephaorurselv » Willful, posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2013, at 21:18:16
> > Obviously we all have noticed that Bob seems very invested in trying to focus us on the idea that we all have something, or perhaps various things, in common with Lou.
> >
> > But I wonder why this is such an issue. Even if I have something, say a fear of some terrible effect from taking anti-depressants and that some poster also has a fear that ADs cause terrible effects. This has some rationality-- ADs can in rare cases cause very destructive side effects--but it can also take on an irrational quality, which is itself destructive-- and to a degree that it would even terrify me into refusing a drug that would help.
> >
> > The initial insight might make me open to realizing how much I share with this poster-- and therefore to feeling a sense of community with him or her. But the form these fears take, and the actions that the other person undertakes in response to the fears may be in fact very harmful to me. In fact, someone with similar fears to oneself can present a danger, if their fears are irrational or if they believe that giving voice to the worst fears and indeed adumbrating them is the best way to cope.
> >
> >
> > So I suppose I might have a fear of taking dangerous drugs, and a conflicting fear of not taking a drug that I desperately need. The only hope I have I guess is to believe that I am capable of some sort of insight-- or of seeing through these unbalancing hopes and fears to a best judgment.
> >
> > So maybe what Bob is saying is that the push and pull of the community gives voice to posters' tangle of emotions-- and that Lou represents the fears while others of us represent the hopes-- or the hard-fought judgments we've come to through the conflict of these. And as such, perhaps we should tolerate his invective against drugs-- since dangers do exist.
> >
> > Of course it would be more comfortable if Lou had what I suppose I consider sound judgment--something closer to a moderate view-- even if he were more wary of drugs or more pessimistic about their usefulness. But also, we can't order up our opposing views---
> >
> > I don't know. I think we can all understand how hard is for us to hear Lou's comments-- because we've fought our way through fears, disappointments, etc about drugs-- and find his animadversions disturbing, depressing reminders of something in ourselves.
> >
> > And we all might therefore question our own reactions to him-- and our fears (or my fear anyway) that he will harm other posters-- or drive away potential fellow sufferers in a community where we are a bit forlorn.
> >
> > And yet--- well--- is there any possibility that he could frighten people who might be considering taking drugs? Is someone on a message board that powerful in the face of other voices?-- when it's really the internal struggle in each of us that leads to our ultimate judgments?
> >
> > well anyway-- sorry for rambling. I suppose I understand Bob's point-- but perhaps, one doesn't know-- if he has never gone through this process of struggle about taking drugs-- does he really understand ours?
> >
> > Friends,
> I have come here to save lives and prevent life-ruining conditions and addictions. And I am asking those interested in what Willful has posted about me here to read the following so that you could have more information to make a more informed decision as to what you may post here. To see this post, go to the bottom of the page and type in the search box:
> [admin,1030171]
> >
> >
> > correction:
Type in:
[admin,1030378]
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on May 11, 2013, at 22:50:35
In reply to correction- Lou's request-ceephaorurselv, posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2013, at 21:20:41
Lou you just broke the rule of three posts in a row? Phillipa
Posted by 10derheart on May 11, 2013, at 23:45:20
In reply to Re: correction- Lou's request-ceephaorurselv » Lou Pilder, posted by Phillipa on May 11, 2013, at 22:50:35
One is a reply to Willful. That doesn't count.
I think Lou is very scrupulous about not breaking this rule.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe we are still supposed to report anything we think is a problem to Dr. Bob using the Notification button, not state it here.
Maybe this is a great time to focus on positives?
I'm trying, but sometimes I choose silence, too.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 12, 2013, at 9:40:14
In reply to Lou's request-ceephaorurselv » Willful, posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2013, at 21:18:16
> > Obviously we all have noticed that Bob seems very invested in trying to focus us on the idea that we all have something, or perhaps various things, in common with Lou.
> >
> > But I wonder why this is such an issue. Even if I have something, say a fear of some terrible effect from taking anti-depressants and that some poster also has a fear that ADs cause terrible effects. This has some rationality-- ADs can in rare cases cause very destructive side effects--but it can also take on an irrational quality, which is itself destructive-- and to a degree that it would even terrify me into refusing a drug that would help.
> >
> > The initial insight might make me open to realizing how much I share with this poster-- and therefore to feeling a sense of community with him or her. But the form these fears take, and the actions that the other person undertakes in response to the fears may be in fact very harmful to me. In fact, someone with similar fears to oneself can present a danger, if their fears are irrational or if they believe that giving voice to the worst fears and indeed adumbrating them is the best way to cope.
> >
> >
> > So I suppose I might have a fear of taking dangerous drugs, and a conflicting fear of not taking a drug that I desperately need. The only hope I have I guess is to believe that I am capable of some sort of insight-- or of seeing through these unbalancing hopes and fears to a best judgment.
> >
> > So maybe what Bob is saying is that the push and pull of the community gives voice to posters' tangle of emotions-- and that Lou represents the fears while others of us represent the hopes-- or the hard-fought judgments we've come to through the conflict of these. And as such, perhaps we should tolerate his invective against drugs-- since dangers do exist.
> >
> > Of course it would be more comfortable if Lou had what I suppose I consider sound judgment--something closer to a moderate view-- even if he were more wary of drugs or more pessimistic about their usefulness. But also, we can't order up our opposing views---
> >
> > I don't know. I think we can all understand how hard is for us to hear Lou's comments-- because we've fought our way through fears, disappointments, etc about drugs-- and find his animadversions disturbing, depressing reminders of something in ourselves.
> >
> > And we all might therefore question our own reactions to him-- and our fears (or my fear anyway) that he will harm other posters-- or drive away potential fellow sufferers in a community where we are a bit forlorn.
> >
> > And yet--- well--- is there any possibility that he could frighten people who might be considering taking drugs? Is someone on a message board that powerful in the face of other voices?-- when it's really the internal struggle in each of us that leads to our ultimate judgments?
> >
> > well anyway-- sorry for rambling. I suppose I understand Bob's point-- but perhaps, one doesn't know-- if he has never gone through this process of struggle about taking drugs-- does he really understand ours?
> >
> > Friends,
> I have come here to save lives and prevent life-ruining conditions and addictions. And I am asking those interested in what Willful has posted about me here to read the following so that you could have more information to make a more informed decision as to what you may post here. To see this post, go to the bottom of the page and type in the search box:
> [admin,1030171]
> >
> >
> > Friends,
If you are considering drugging your child or yourself in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor, I am requesting that you view the following video. If you could, I think that it could go a long way in seeing what is plainly visible here.
Lou
To see this video:
A. Pull up Google
B. Tpe in:
[youtube, W4Xb29geVwE]
It is usually first and was posted on Aug 13 2012. The title is How Do Psychiatric Drugs Really Work
>
Posted by Phillipa on May 12, 2013, at 20:21:05
In reply to He really didn't » Phillipa, posted by 10derheart on May 11, 2013, at 23:45:20
Really? I see three posts? Phillipa
Posted by 10derheart on May 12, 2013, at 21:05:24
In reply to Re: He really didn't » 10derheart, posted by Phillipa on May 12, 2013, at 20:21:05
Okay. You are right.
But...
>>You can help this site run smoothly by notifying me of issues you see on the boards. Please don't do that in posts
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130109/msgs/1043117.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 13, 2013, at 8:27:50
In reply to Lou's request-, posted by Lou Pilder on May 12, 2013, at 9:40:14
> > > Obviously we all have noticed that Bob seems very invested in trying to focus us on the idea that we all have something, or perhaps various things, in common with Lou.
> > >
> > > But I wonder why this is such an issue. Even if I have something, say a fear of some terrible effect from taking anti-depressants and that some poster also has a fear that ADs cause terrible effects. This has some rationality-- ADs can in rare cases cause very destructive side effects--but it can also take on an irrational quality, which is itself destructive-- and to a degree that it would even terrify me into refusing a drug that would help.
> > >
> > > The initial insight might make me open to realizing how much I share with this poster-- and therefore to feeling a sense of community with him or her. But the form these fears take, and the actions that the other person undertakes in response to the fears may be in fact very harmful to me. In fact, someone with similar fears to oneself can present a danger, if their fears are irrational or if they believe that giving voice to the worst fears and indeed adumbrating them is the best way to cope.
> > >
> > >
> > > So I suppose I might have a fear of taking dangerous drugs, and a conflicting fear of not taking a drug that I desperately need. The only hope I have I guess is to believe that I am capable of some sort of insight-- or of seeing through these unbalancing hopes and fears to a best judgment.
> > >
> > > So maybe what Bob is saying is that the push and pull of the community gives voice to posters' tangle of emotions-- and that Lou represents the fears while others of us represent the hopes-- or the hard-fought judgments we've come to through the conflict of these. And as such, perhaps we should tolerate his invective against drugs-- since dangers do exist.
> > >
> > > Of course it would be more comfortable if Lou had what I suppose I consider sound judgment--something closer to a moderate view-- even if he were more wary of drugs or more pessimistic about their usefulness. But also, we can't order up our opposing views---
> > >
> > > I don't know. I think we can all understand how hard is for us to hear Lou's comments-- because we've fought our way through fears, disappointments, etc about drugs-- and find his animadversions disturbing, depressing reminders of something in ourselves.
> > >
> > > And we all might therefore question our own reactions to him-- and our fears (or my fear anyway) that he will harm other posters-- or drive away potential fellow sufferers in a community where we are a bit forlorn.
> > >
> > > And yet--- well--- is there any possibility that he could frighten people who might be considering taking drugs? Is someone on a message board that powerful in the face of other voices?-- when it's really the internal struggle in each of us that leads to our ultimate judgments?
> > >
> > > well anyway-- sorry for rambling. I suppose I understand Bob's point-- but perhaps, one doesn't know-- if he has never gone through this process of struggle about taking drugs-- does he really understand ours?
> > >
> > > Friends,
> > I have come here to save lives and prevent life-ruining conditions and addictions. And I am asking those interested in what Willful has posted about me here to read the following so that you could have more information to make a more informed decision as to what you may post here. To see this post, go to the bottom of the page and type in the search box:
> > [admin,1030171]
> > >
> > >
> > > Friends,
> If you are considering drugging your child or yourself in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor, I am requesting that you view the following video. If you could, I think that it could go a long way in seeing what is plainly visible here.
> Lou
> To see this video:
> A. Pull up Google
> B. Tpe in:
> [youtube, W4Xb29geVwE]
> It is usually first and was posted on Aug 13 2012. The title is How Do Psychiatric Drugs Really Work
> >
> Friends,
If you are interested in what can be seen here, I am requesting that you read the following link. If you are a parent trying to make a more informed decision as to drug your child or not in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor, be advised that what is in the post, IMHHHO, could save your child's life or prevent a lifetime of misery.
Lou To see this post, go to the search box at the bottom of this page. Then type in;
[admin,1030202]
>
Posted by Toph on May 13, 2013, at 15:54:26
In reply to He really didn't » Phillipa, posted by 10derheart on May 11, 2013, at 23:45:20
> I think Lou is very scrupulous about not breaking this rule.
>Maybe so, but does anyone see how a discussion of how to deal with disruption is obfuscated and deflected by a series of unrelated rants? Willful's thoughtful contribution has drowned in misdirection and drivel.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 13, 2013, at 20:09:49
In reply to Re: He really didn't, posted by Toph on May 13, 2013, at 15:54:26
Friends,
Each month, more people die from psychiatric drugs than those that died on 911. And it is much more than that, for people kill themselves during the withdrawal from these drugs. And how do people get addicted? he psychiatrist/doctor that gives the drugs to them states that you have to take the drug for a period of time. Sometimes this is months. Sometimes 2 weeks, sometimes 10 days. Some people can get addicted during the trial of the drug. Then they think that they can just stop the drug and find themselves in a horrific mind-altered state and think that they could never live in that kind of state and kill themselves. Some kill others along with themselves, for the drug could induce homicidal thinking along with suicidal thinking.
I came here to save the lives of those people stopping the drugs . But I am prevented by Mr. Hsiung's prohibitions to me here to do that. And there are children given these drugs and kill themselves. Here is a post that I would like for members to read.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20121113/msgs/1031901.html
Posted by 10derheart on May 13, 2013, at 20:33:35
In reply to Re: He really didn't, posted by Toph on May 13, 2013, at 15:54:26
Posted by Phillipa on May 13, 2013, at 20:40:02
In reply to Lou's response-drvul » Toph, posted by Lou Pilder on May 13, 2013, at 20:09:49
If I killed myself or someone else each time I took or stopped a psych med. I feel I'd be invincible as I am still here at least I feel me and it feels like I'm still here. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 13, 2013, at 21:29:30
In reply to Re: Lou's response-drvul » Lou Pilder, posted by Phillipa on May 13, 2013, at 20:40:02
> If I killed myself or someone else each time I took or stopped a psych med. I feel I'd be invincible as I am still here at least I feel me and it feels like I'm still here. Phillipa
Friends,
Not everyone that takes psychiatric drugs kills themselves and/or others during withdrawal. Nor do all get tardive dyskinesia. But it is a potential for one to go into a mind-altered state and be compelled to kill themselves. And people that get tardive dyskinesia, has it happen without their control to stop it.
One does not know what will happen to them when they take mind-altering drugs. But there is the potential for death to happen by many ways other than suicide.
Lou
Posted by Phillipa on May 13, 2013, at 22:13:57
In reply to Lou's response-pspyndhaweel » Phillipa, posted by Lou Pilder on May 13, 2013, at 21:29:30
Lou so not everyone gets withdrawal, urges to kill, or commit suicide, nor get tardive dyskenisa. So do you feel that for some the meds are helpful rather than hurtful? If you could acknowledge this it would go a long way to reassuring other babblers that indeed the meds that are taking or thinking about taking could be a good thing? I have a feeling you do feel this way. Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 14, 2013, at 2:45:30
In reply to Re: Lou's response-pspyndhaweel » Lou Pilder, posted by Phillipa on May 13, 2013, at 22:13:57
> I only feel constrained when I am faced with warnings and pbc's from you.
>
> TwinleafLou may also feel constrained when faced with warnings and pbc's from me. If so, he and you may have something in common.
--
> I think Lou is very scrupulous about not breaking this rule.
>
> Maybe this is a great time to focus on positives?
>
> I'm trying, but sometimes I choose silence, too.
>
> 10derheartThanks for choosing to focus on a positive -- one about Lou! -- this time. I feel so proud of my deputies (including my former ones).
--
> does anyone see how a discussion of how to deal with disruption is obfuscated and deflected by a series of unrelated rants? Willful's thoughtful contribution has drowned in misdirection and drivel.
>
> TophBe the change you wish to see.
--
> Lou so not everyone gets withdrawal, urges to kill, or commit suicide, nor get tardive dyskenisa. So do you feel that for some the meds are helpful rather than hurtful? If you could acknowledge this it would go a long way to reassuring other babblers that indeed the meds that are taking or thinking about taking could be a good thing?
>
> PhillipaLou may express the fears of posters. Fear "wants" to make you feel afraid. Fear isn't going to reassure you.
--
> Obviously we all have noticed that Bob seems very invested in trying to focus us on the idea that we all have something, or perhaps various things, in common with Lou.
>
> But I wonder why this is such an issue.I see Lou as in some ways like others (both he and others sometimes feel constrained by me), but in other ways different (he tends to be more pessimistic, others more optimistic).
> So maybe what Bob is saying is that the push and pull of the community gives voice to posters' tangle of emotions-- and that Lou represents the fears while others of us represent the hopes-- or the hard-fought judgments we've come to through the conflict of these. And as such, perhaps we should tolerate his invective against drugs-- since dangers do exist.
>
> I don't know. I think we can all understand how hard is for us to hear Lou's comments-- because we've fought our way through fears, disappointments, etc about drugs-- and find his animadversions disturbing, depressing reminders of something in ourselves.Exactly.
> And yet--- well--- is there any possibility that he could frighten people who might be considering taking drugs? Is someone on a message board that powerful in the face of other voices?-- when it's really the internal struggle in each of us that leads to our ultimate judgments?
>
> WillfulPosters do have the power to frighten -- and to reassure -- others.
How do you fight your way through fears? It may not be a fight you like to revisit, but if you show others how you overcome yours, maybe they'll be more able to overcome theirs.
Bob
Posted by Twinleaf on May 14, 2013, at 4:29:21
In reply to Re: feeling empowered, posted by Dr. Bob on May 14, 2013, at 2:45:30
I think it's a good point that we all have a lot in common. We are all human, and react with the same feelings to events, depending n how we interpret them. We all have the same emotions - fear, anger, hope, love. We each just vary a bit in how we react to particular events; each is important - the similarities and the individual differences. I think we are all basically in agreement with you on that.
This discussion began because several of us respectfully offered our concerns about the possible effect of some of Lou's posts on newcomers to Babble. We were, and are, concerned that newcombers who might benefit tremendously from the knowledge, support and understanding available here would be frightened away. I would very much like to see the discussion return to this important issue.
Posted by SLS on May 14, 2013, at 6:53:18
In reply to Lou's response-pspyndhaweel » Phillipa, posted by Lou Pilder on May 13, 2013, at 21:29:30
> > If I killed myself or someone else each time I took or stopped a psych med. I feel I'd be invincible as I am still here at least I feel me and it feels like I'm still here. Phillipa
>
> Friends,
> Not everyone that takes psychiatric drugs kills themselves and/or others during withdrawal. Nor do all get tardive dyskinesia. But it is a potential for one to go into a mind-altered state and be compelled to kill themselves. And people that get tardive dyskinesia, has it happen without their control to stop it.
> One does not know what will happen to them when they take mind-altering drugs. But there is the potential for death to happen by many ways other than suicide.
> LouVery, very good reasoning, Lou. Now all you have left to do is to properly display the statistics that portray the risks for these things to happen. eHealthMe does NOT provide these.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 14, 2013, at 7:02:18
In reply to Re: Lou's response-pspyndhaweel » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on May 14, 2013, at 6:53:18
I apologize for helping to allow this thread to drift away from its original theme.
Does this conversation belong on the Medication board?
- Scott------------------------------------
> > Not everyone that takes psychiatric drugs kills themselves and/or others during withdrawal. Nor do all get tardive dyskinesia. But it is a potential for one to go into a mind-altered state and be compelled to kill themselves. And people that get tardive dyskinesia, has it happen without their control to stop it.
> > One does not know what will happen to them when they take mind-altering drugs. But there is the potential for death to happen by many ways other than suicide.
> > Lou> Very, very good reasoning, Lou. Now all you have left to do is to properly display the statistics that portray the risks for these things to happen. eHealthMe does NOT provide these.
>
> - Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 14, 2013, at 8:29:35
In reply to Re: feeling empowered » Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on May 14, 2013, at 4:29:21
> I think it's a good point that we all have a lot in common. We are all human, and react with the same feelings to events, depending n how we interpret them. We all have the same emotions - fear, anger, hope, love. We each just vary a bit in how we react to particular events; each is important - the similarities and the individual differences. I think we are all basically in agreement with you on that.
>
> This discussion began because several of us respectfully offered our concerns about the possible effect of some of Lou's posts on newcomers to Babble. We were, and are, concerned that newcombers who might benefit tremendously from the knowledge, support and understanding available here would be frightened away. I would very much like to see the discussion return to this important issue.Friends,
If you are considering being a discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you read the following post.
Lou
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